Psychic Awakening: The Ritual of the Damned

[The Yncarne]

 

Can the Cult of Scheming relic be used to pay the 3cp cost for Relics of the Thousand Sons?

I don't think it can. The Relics stratagem is used before the game begins while 'Cha'qi'thl's Theorem' requires the model equipped with it to be on the battlefield.

 

 

Thats what I was thinking, but I make mistakes.

[Skerr]

After spending the last few hours on Battlescribe I am coming to some tough decisions and changes of heart.

 

As I normally play 1500 pt games Double battallion with Time and Duplicity is leaving me a bit perplexed on what to put in each. Who gets rezed vs who gets 'ported.

 

Feeling a bit stretched thin and like I could not do both Time Battalion and Duplicity Battallion justice. I am now thinking one Battalion and one Supreme Command. I think it will be more efficient for me. I dont use a lot of heavies and splitting up Rubrics and SOTs across 2 battallions doesn't make sense.

 

For the battalion I am leaning to Duplicity though Time keeps creeping up. I like that all 3 Time modalities are useful but I just love unit move shenanigans.

 

For the Supreme Command it just makes sense to go Cult of Magic.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Skerr

[Prot]

Yea I agree. The larger Battalion is probably going to be your Time or Duplicity detachment.  And if you play 1500 there’s just not enough room to truly take advantage of both. ( I’m guessing. ). 
 

both look like a lot of fun to try. Even Time’s ability to just rob your opponent of a big kill. ( I’m assuming your opponent will still get warlord kill for the first kill as is the case with other Strats like this one). 

[Archaeinox]

For the Supreme Command it just makes sense to go Cult of Magic.

 

 

Please explain how/why people seem to be gravitating towards that, I simply don't understand (maybe it's not clear for me yet as I am trying to grasp the changes)

 

My first instinct is to make the predator Spearhead Cult of Magic, since the sorcerer in Terminator Armor will be dropping in to be a damage dealer between the warlord trait + artifact and Spell Familiar..

 

One of the other HQs from another det will probably babysit the predators. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

Because it’s a cult that’s entirely based on solo damage and no support.  So take your favourite support cult and put it in your battalion. 
 

the SCD in soups is always strong, just now you get the added bonus of doing more damage with the same models you would have taken anyway.  
 

[Archaeinox]

yeah but only 1 guy right? because he'll likely have the warlord trait and, maybe, the relic?

 

So the other guy might take High Magister for +1 to cast but that leaves the 3rd guy doing.... what?

 

I guess it'd be nice to have them all spread out on the field and whichever one has opportunity to cast the Magic power will use it.. 

Edited January 20, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Prot]

Exactly. Plus as one dies, the other will become the primary damage dealer since they all know the spells. Just putting any other units with them has very small returns. 
 

overall I think it will be interesting to see how the supplement finds its way with Thousand sons players. I just played against Blood Angels and wow they got nasty with their new rules. Already people were taking smash captains, but they got a large reason to play larger detachments of BA. I don’t think that will be the case here. I think mostly people who already played TS will just continue and simply add the new rules. 

[Archaeinox]

As we have already discussed, I believe just the addition of the 7 stratagems provides me with things I've always wanted and needed and that alone makes me content. The cults are just free bonuses as far as I'm concerned, I know not everyone around the world feels the same but it is what it is. I'm sure I will be concerned with optimizing them in the long run but for now it's nice to just have attention for units ive always loved.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Archaeinox

[BoomWolf]

yeah but only 1 guy right? because he'll likely have the warlord trait and, maybe, the relic?

 

So the other guy might take High Magister for +1 to cast but that leaves the 3rd guy doing.... what?

Being ahriman and doing ahriman things.

 

I mean, you could always splash magic as a patrol with a squad of cultists/goats if you feel the need for them.

[deTox]

 

yeah but only 1 guy right? because he'll likely have the warlord trait and, maybe, the relic?

 

So the other guy might take High Magister for +1 to cast but that leaves the 3rd guy doing.... what?

Being ahriman and doing ahriman things.

 

I mean, you could always splash magic as a patrol with a squad of cultists/goats if you feel the need for them.

Yep this, Ahriman doesn't benefit from a cult BUT he's still the strongest HQ in the codex, so he's the perfect fit for a SCD and you've got yourself 3 casters all with +1 to cast which is not shabby at all

[BoomWolf]

Man this gets me depressed that we jump through hoops to mimic GK's base ability of all people x_x

[deTox]

Man this gets me depressed that we jump through hoops to mimic GK's base ability of all people x_x

That's the price of the Heresy, we can't bath in the emperors light no longer...so we get utterly forgotten and made fun of instead.

[Zhaharek]

Competitive optimisation and comparisons aside, I think that the new traits provide some excellent customisation for us, from a fluffy standpoint.

We have some of the best characters in the damn game anyway, anyone feel like sharing now they're going to flavour their spanky new Cult Aligned Sorcerers?

[Heliomanes]

Like most people here I am gravitating towards a single Duplicity batallion and a Magic supreme command. I tried making room for more, but find that I can't do that and still keep all the units I want to bring to the table. For the supreme command I am considering going for Ahriman, a terminator sorcerer, and a daemon prince.

If the enemy is bad at spacing things out and clumps up, then I'll take the cult of magic warlord trait and relic on the terminator sorcerer, and teleport or deep strike him up. Use chaos familliar to give him the infernal gate psychic power, +1 to cast from familliar, +1 to cast from relic, +1 damage to all mortal wounds from the warlord trait. With possibility for another +2 through the stratagem if I've managed to get my rubrics and scarab occult in position through the risen rubricae and black matter crystal, or the deep strike strats.

If the enemy is better at spacing, coming towards me anyway, or I want to save my CP for other things, then I'll just give the relic and warlord trait to the daemon prince, and load him up with infernal gate and the reroll power. Cast rerolls until people get close, then go nuts with AoE powers.

Fun fact - with duplicity you can actually redeploy a single unit 4 times before your first turn has ended. Rubricae rise from the sands, as a plan centuries in the making comes to fruition - but no, it was just a cunning ruse by a Duplicity magister, they are actually over here. But no, they crushed a dark matter crystal and now they are over here instead - but alas, that was just a mirage conjured by the cult of Duplicity sorcerer - they were actually over here the whole time, drinking beer and snickering. Supremely silly stuff, but I love it. Very "just as planned".

[deTox]

For everybody thinking about using Cult of Magic Termy Sorcerer as an assassin, that'll definitely work but the major downside is that after the bunch of spell as soon as it's the opponent turn the Termy Sorcerer will get evaporated.

 

If I can offer an alternative I suggest the following (brutal copy/pasta from a post I made on reddit because I'm lazy) : take a DPoT (note you definitely want a DP instead of the Termy Sorc because it can Fly so easier to position and has natural access to Gateway) with the full Magic Cult complement (relic and trait), have him behind a screen of plague bearers (or any other screen really), and close to two other psyches from the SupCom (or unearthed Rubrics) , move/advance him forward cast the new Magic Cult Spell, cast Smite, use Cabalistic Focus (1CP) for +3 to cast on the next spell (thanks to the +1 from the relic), use extra cast strat for 1 CP , and cast Infernal Gateway, after that have Ahriman to warptime him back behind screen. Repeat every turn, for 2 CP a turn you're doing a obnoxious amount of MWs, it's pretty much the Magnus Boomerang but better because the DPoT can't be shot at

[Skerr]

I am sure after some games we will start to see new combos of cults and detachments rise though to start, for me, single battalion and Magic SCD is an good starting point. Will probably go Duplicity Battalion though very interested to hear folks who try out Time on their battalions.

[Heliomanes]

I get your point, deTox. Still, if you face opponents with plenty of snipers, then that daemon prince is dead no matter what. The deep strike is a way to guarantee getting at least one big boom, and the termie sorc is cheaper and can get another +1 to cast through the familliar. Having both gives a few options, at least.

I intend to teleport a Leviathan dread within 9' turn 1. Between that, the black matter crystal, risen rubricae etc, I'm hoping the threat overload can make for a few difficult choices early on. But this is just speculation so far. Will let you know how it works out with some testing.

[deTox]

I get your point, deTox. Still, if you face opponents with plenty of snipers, then that daemon prince is dead no matter what. The deep strike is a way to guarantee getting at least one big boom, and the termie sorc is cheaper and can get another +1 to cast through the familliar. Having both gives a few options, at least.

 

I intend to teleport a Leviathan dread within 9' turn 1. Between that, the black matter crystal, risen rubricae etc, I'm hoping the threat overload can make for a few difficult choices early on. But this is just speculation so far. Will let you know how it works out with some testing.

I'm really really interested in the "Surpriiise It's a Motha:cussin' Leviathan" turn 1 play, and was kind of theorising with that too, I suppose with Claw and a Grav-Flux Bombardment as it's a pretty versatile weapon if you bypass the short range, let me know how that goes please!

For my lists though I wouldn't be running any other tank so while the Leviboy is a tough fella he would also be the only target for the opponents heavy weapons which leaves me a bit worried about it working as it gives a very easy target priority, but ofc if you're running other tanks it's a whole different story.

As for snipers I find that they are not very effective against the DPoT as it's not infantry and has high toughness so the Vindicares tend to not even bother shooting at it, the output of eventual MW is not enough to down a price, but yeah ofc if you're playing against Ravenguard guess the wight of snipers could take one down

[BoomWolf]

As much value as is easily seen in biggest booms magic sorcerer, I can't help but wonder if maybe a magic surgical caster might be better

Loading up two targeted mw powers could make quick work of most chars with the trait, and you could always CP to add the boom.

 

Also, actual warlord. Ahriman? Or is a generic dude a better idea these days with the new stuff?

[deTox]

Imho never Ahriman as a warlord (unless you're playing some cool narrative), always another dude to maximise the +1s to cast thanks to High Magister, or pump up a Price with some of the new goodness, 3++ on Ahriman is not that great as should be kind of always kept out of harm ways   

[RolandTHTG]

There's an apparent synopsis of the PA4 lore over on reddit for any of you TS fans.

 

Do you have a link to this or can copy it over?  Reddit is a pain for me to search. 

[Raven1]

 

 

There's an apparent synopsis of the PA4 lore over on reddit for any of you TS fans.

Do you have a link to this or can copy it over? Reddit is a pain for me to search.

I read it the synopsis, I'll give you a synopsis of the synopsis. The Imperium wins at great sacrifice, but TS still achieve some cryptic victory...just as planned.

 

I am sure after some games we will start to see new combos of cults and detachments rise though to start, for me, single battalion and Magic SCD is an good starting point. Will probably go Duplicity Battalion though very interested to hear folks who try out Time on their battalions.

That's my thought a SCD and a Battalion, but I'm wondering what to add as another detachment? Demons, Chaos Knights? CSM possessed? I think a possessed bomb with a brick of rubrics or SOT clearing the chaff could be a good 1-2 combo. Edited January 20, 2020 by Raven1

[Archaeinox]

 

 I'll give you a synopsis of the synopsis. The Imperium wins at great sacrifice, but TS still achieve some cryptic victory

 

 

GEEZ man use the spoiler tags, I never would have expected that!

 

Hehe :D

Edited January 20, 2020 by Archaeinox

[Heliomanes]

A quick attempt at a 2k list, using the new rules. Let me know if this in inappropriate for the thread.

3 cults.

Duplicity batallion:

Sorcerer, flame pistol
Sorcerer, flame pistol

20 rubricae, flame pistol and gatlings
21 Tzaangors, brayhorn
10 cultists

9 Scarab Occult Terminators
Leviathan dread, Claw and butcher cannon

Cult of magic supreme command

Ahriman on disc
Daemon prince w wings and claws
Sorcerer in terminator armor, familliar

Cult of change patrol

Exalted sorcerer on disc, flame pistol
10 cultists

This will allow us to get the movement shenanigans through duplicity on rubricae, scarab occult and the leviathan. Cult of magic fun stuff in the supreme command, and the change patrol with a character on disc so we get the reroll spells bubble through the crest relic where we would like to have it.
Again, this is just a rough draft playing with some of the new toys at our disposal. Let me know what you think.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I came to the conclusion of using a splash of magic (Goat squad or Cultist squad depending) with a single Exalted on Disc in the HQ slot for that patrol. Magic, give him warlord and the relic. He is our nuke-sniper and can zip around causing problems all game. Its a nice easy slot-in for something *Very* useful. 

 

Primary detachment I am looking at is actually a Brigade! Starts you with 15 CP and means we can take advantage of all the new nice strats. Debating Duplicity or Time.... to be fair its a good problem to have and we actually fill out Brigades fairly well. 

 

HOWEVER! a thought occurred to me regarding our issue with AT weaponry. One included a Triple heavy support slot (in my case it ended up being a predator, a land raider, and Forgefiend or defiler geared for long range AT) then you take the Exalted on Disc with the Cult of Knowledge. All you need is the spell. That spell is a *REAL* winner for us since it gives us 24 inch RR'1s.  This would also of course with work triple helbrutes or contemptors with plenty of AT guns. This might be a substantial buffer for our lists for damage dealing in one of our detachments. 

 

I figured this has potential on the table, tag a big nasty target and blast it with RR'1s to wound and hit.  Thoughts?