Primaris Blood Angels

[Blindhamster]

So, how are people feeling about making a primaris army that feels like Blood Angel's now? Too few jump packs for some I'm sure. But I'm interested to hear how people are generally feeling about them now. We have primaris death company now, primaris all have more attacks base and get more from our other rules.

 

A shame we didnt get a way to make primaris apothecaries into sanguinary priests!

 

Anyway, I'd be interested to hear the thoughts of my fellow brothers of the blood!

 

I for one am excited to sort out veteran intercessors, the extra attack and updated melee weapon options makes them feel like for us they're a credible melee threat to all but really elite melee units.

[Panzer]

We are still lacking JP melee units which is kinda a big deal when playing BA unfortunately.

However with the amount of attacks we get turn 3+, +1 to charge, the option to bring DC Intercessors and Veteran Intercessors .... Primaris just feel a lot more BA than they did before which is great.

It's baby steps but we are getting there.

 

On that note, I'm definitely going to enjoy charging my Inceptors with 4 AP-1 attacks per model into the enemy the turn they dropped and blasted another unit into oblivion. :P

Being able to have worthwhile relics (okay, special issue wargear) for my Gravis Captain is nice too. He finally doesn't have to necessarily carry the Vitae lol

 

 

About the Primaris Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest, imo their profiles are close enough that you can just kitbash a Primaris Sanguinary Priest without a problem as long as you don't plan to put him into transports. It's what I am planning to do at least.

[Aothaine]

I think the Primaris line has become quite valid for running all Primaris. You're losing a lot by doing this though, at least for now. You lose Dante, Corb, pretty much all the named characters except Mepheston, who is a damned monster btw, all of our first-born options so you lose out on body guards in a meta that is starting to target characters a LOT, lose out on terminators which most people were not using but are still very very strong despite them not being used you can check out Black Blow Fly's post on the Ultramarines thread for his break down on them. BBF is using Cataphractii and winning with them on a consistent basis. You lose the mobility that the Blood Angels used to be known for. Oh yeah! Almost forgot! You won't be using any sanguinary guard either. :/

 

But, you gain access to phobos units. I think this is where all Primaris Blood Angel armies are going to lean. Rocking three of the warsuits with the flamer, not entirely sure which phobos units are going to be the best yet though. Maybe something like this though?

 

 

Infiltrator Squads x6 with comms arrays, Phobos Captain, Phobos Lieutenant, Phobos Librarian, Repulsor Executioners x2: Drop the Lieutenant with the Executioners? Everything else will start mid-board and should be able to assault T1.

 

But yeah... I dunno. There is a lot that can work for pure primaris forces. But for now, primaris seem to be really focused on shooting. Which isn't bad. It just feels like we're getting knee capped if we are not using our specialist units. It is do-able but I'm not sure how competitive it will be yet. Need to think more about it. It is not as clear cut as Ultramarines, Iron Hands, Raven Guard etc..

[Blindhamster]

We are still lacking JP melee units which is kinda a big deal when playing BA unfortunately.

However with the amount of attacks we get turn 3+, +1 to charge, the option to bring DC Intercessors and Veteran Intercessors .... Primaris just feel a lot more BA than they did before which is great.

It's baby steps but we are getting there.

 

On that note, I'm definitely going to enjoy charging my Inceptors with 4 AP-1 attacks per model into the enemy the turn they dropped and blasted another unit into oblivion. :P

Being able to have worthwhile relics (okay, special issue wargear) for my Gravis Captain is nice too. He finally doesn't have to necessarily carry the Vitae lol

 

 

About the Primaris Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest, imo their profiles are close enough that you can just kitbash a Primaris Sanguinary Priest without a problem as long as you don't plan to put him into transports. It's what I am planning to do at least.

Yeah it was the transport I had been pondering!

 

As far as jump packs go, I agree they're very iconic for us, I feel like our rules really want us to be a close range shooting army before closing in. Which fits pretty well with how they played in earlier editions. I do hope we see an assault marine analogy eventually though. I'd like them to be in something roughly akin to tacticus too but suspect that wont happen lol.

 

Being able to include a BA character in an all primaris army is nice too!

 

Auto bolt rifles really feel like the best option for our intercessors these days too. Particularly on veteran and death company versions.

[Panzer]

 

We are still lacking JP melee units which is kinda a big deal when playing BA unfortunately.

However with the amount of attacks we get turn 3+, +1 to charge, the option to bring DC Intercessors and Veteran Intercessors .... Primaris just feel a lot more BA than they did before which is great.

It's baby steps but we are getting there.

 

On that note, I'm definitely going to enjoy charging my Inceptors with 4 AP-1 attacks per model into the enemy the turn they dropped and blasted another unit into oblivion.

Being able to have worthwhile relics (okay, special issue wargear) for my Gravis Captain is nice too. He finally doesn't have to necessarily carry the Vitae lol

 

 

About the Primaris Apothecary/Sanguinary Priest, imo their profiles are close enough that you can just kitbash a Primaris Sanguinary Priest without a problem as long as you don't plan to put him into transports. It's what I am planning to do at least.

Yeah it was the transport I had been pondering!

 

As far as jump packs go, I agree they're very iconic for us, I feel like our rules really want us to be a close range shooting army before closing in. Which fits pretty well with how they played in earlier editions. I do hope we see an assault marine analogy eventually though. I'd like them to be in something roughly akin to tacticus too but suspect that wont happen lol.

 

Being able to include a BA character in an all primaris army is nice too!

 

Auto bolt rifles really feel like the best option for our intercessors these days too. Particularly on veteran and death company versions.

 

 

Well Sanguinary Priests can officially take Jump Packs again (it was official before as well but just an Index option) so just give your not-Primaris Sanguinary Priest a magnetized Jump Pack.

 

Yeah having a named Primaris character is great too. Can't wait to order my Mephiston even though I'm already struggling to pick between Librarian Dread and Phobos Librarian.

 

I'm kinda torn on Auto bolt rifles to be honest. Mathematically they are better than Bolt rifles for now, especially when moving outside of rapid fire range, however the rapid fire Stratagem makes the regular Bolt rifles mathematically better again. Also Assault weapons kinda promote staying at range since they already get their full damage output at max range while rapid fire weapons promote getting close since they get their full damage output only at half range (alright or when stationary in case of bolters I guess).

Personally since I've build 10 of my Intercessors with regular Bolt rifles I'll stick with those for regular Intercessors. However I think I'll give my DC Intercessors and Veterans Auto bolt rifles for some variation and because it makes sense to give DC the weapon they can use while running like mad towards the enemy. :P 

Edited November 30, 2019 by sfPanzer

[Wassa]

I want to like Primaris as I prefer less models for marines.

 

However with BA getting additional attacks:

+1 Shock Assault

+1 Chainswords

+1 Savage Echoes

+1 Unleash Rage

+1 Sanguinor

 

and the stratagem to deal mortal wounds when charging with JP models in base to base contact, as well as being cheaper command point generators, multiple models just currently scales better.

[Blindhamster]

I want to like Primaris as I prefer less models for marines.

 

However with BA getting additional attacks:

+1 Shock Assault

+1 Chainswords

+1 Savage Echoes

+1 Unleash Rage

+1 Sanguinor

 

and the stratagem to deal mortal wounds when charging with JP models in base to base contact, as well as being cheaper command point generators, multiple models just currently scales better.

The jp strat seems like an interesting use of inceptors. Who can cause mortal wounds innately too.

 

Definitely true about the difficulty generating CP with primaris though.

 

Would he interesting to see the sort of setups people might try.

[Xenith]

It's kind of feeling like the start of 3rd ed again where assault marines were 25pts a model and the only jump pack units in the army were the death company as they got them for free. Lots of infantry in transports moving forward fast, jumping out, shooting then assaulting.

[Blindhamster]

It's kind of feeling like the start of 3rd ed again where assault marines were 25pts a model and the only jump pack units in the army were the death company as they got them for free. Lots of infantry in transports moving forward fast, jumping out, shooting then assaulting.

 

yeah pretty much my thought too, cant help but wonder if that's exactly the feel they want to encourage for blood angels. I imagine they'll push all out assault as the thing for wolves instead honestly.

[Indefragable]

I’m noted as not being the biggest Primaris fan, but I can put aside my thoughts for a fun exercise.

 

I think we want Troop spam. Between Intercessors, Infiltrators, and Incursors, that’s some layered lines you can get for crashing the lines. Putting TH on each Intercessor Sgt also means you can hide some melee punch (between 3-6 TH swings each) across the board and basically have 8 ablative wounds for the TH...I do similar with VV by loading up the Sgt and keeping the rest of the unit light. 
 

I would lean heavier on Eliminators than Hellblasters for the lascannon-lites and the ability to infiltrate them where you want and funnel enemy. I am working on a Tactica about this trick alone. 
 

I don’t have any experience or interest with Aggressors at all, so can’t help you there. Same thing with Reivers, though turning off Overwatch is never a bad thing. 
 

Inceptors are solid with 3W. I like the plasma variant since I feel like we have enough tools to clear hordes, but YMMV. Suppressors are models that take me out of the willing suspension of disbelief almost as bad as Centurions or the Grey Knight baby carrier, but anything that turns off Overwatch is useful. 

 

I also have little experience or interest with Primaris HQs, though I find the Phobos Librarian most interesting, especially if he casts Wings on himself. 
 

The theme you will notice is leaning towards infiltrating units. I think they can achieve much of the same effect as Jump units by starting up close and having less distance to have to go.

[FuryofBaal42]

I solved this problem.

I want to play "Primaris + old friends" (Ie Smash Captain, Death Company and Sanguinary Guard, the last of which have the same 2W statline as Primaris.) This way we're still Primaris at our core but we don't lose the flexibility of our best specialist units. (plus, the kitbashing opportunities to make tru--scale versions of our older units seem great.)

Edited December 1, 2019 by FuryofBaal42

[Dont-Be-Haten]

To me if I'm going all primaris it is definitely important to have three squads of aggressors. Aggressors are my favorite unit in the primaris line, followed closely by inceptors.

 

That additional 1" advance & charge is going to make for a very sneaky good melee centered fortress backed by veteran intercessors with thunder hammer, and deep striking inceptors.

 

I'll for sure take the sanguinor though. At 130 points he's been a staple in my army from the onset. But the buff aggressors got makes the combination a no brainer.

 

The fact I can splash Corbulo and a librarian or a chaplain in with exploding 6s is icing. If I want to double up on the combo I can take the Quake Bolts for the additional +1 to hit meaning each aggressor is pumping out 7+ power fist attacks by turn 3. With the ability to stack additional attacks its bananas just how lethal our aggressors are in comparison to others except for maybe Space wolves with their +1 to hit on the charge.

 

Incursors in my opinion are also a no brainer option. They are arguably the best troop choice in the game for astartes. Exploding 6s, ignoring modifiers and cover backed by the tactical and assault doctrine they surely have a place in my all primaris BA.

 

One list I'm thinking about is Baal's moving fortress. 18 aggressors backed by Standard of Sacrifice, Apothecary/priest, and possibly a couple impulses for LoS blocking mobile terrain/eat over watches with some small auto bolt rifle squads with thunder hammers or power swords followed by deep striking inceptors and a redemptor executioner for ranged support. Possibly even skipping on that for las fullisade eliminators.

 

I haven't counted up the points but I have some really fun ideas. But I'm thinking brigade here.

 

 

For my non primaris/mixed force its definitely going to be about vanguard veterans.

 

I'm thinking double battalion + vanguard detachment or triple battalion detachment here with the drop in tactical marines. It's just a lot to process and I've got some really wild ideas. Tactical marines with the ability to have 4+ attacks each while in the Sanguinor bubble is really strong!

[Loishy]

Lot of you seem to like veteran intercessor but it's hard for me to see why. 


With only one special melee weapon and only the impulsor to bring them to fight, they are not a very good melee unit. 
With 2W and bolt rifle / auto bolt rifle they are good objectif holding unit and with +1A they become a litlle more scary, but is it worth 1 CP ? 

[Panzer]

Well I also don't see why you mention the Impulsor to bring them to a fight. You can't charge after using it's special disembark-after-moving rule anyway. Just use a Repulsor. :P 

 

As for why we like Veteran Intercessors? Opportunity to paint them as Veterans while being a much better deal than DC Intercessors. I'd say an additional Thunderhammer attack and 4-9 additional S4 attacks with +1 to wound (and AP-1 turn 3+) is definitely worth a CP.

[Loishy]

 

As for why we like Veteran Intercessors? Opportunity to paint them as Veterans 

 

That's effectively a pretty good reason 

 

Someone know if veteran intercessors are in the 1st compagny ? Or in regular compagny ? They may be my 10th squad of my archangels.

 

 

I'd say an additional Thunderhammer attack and 4-9 additional S4 attacks with +1 to wound (and AP-1 turn 3+) is definitely worth a CP.

I thought a little, and if I can pay 1PC for DC smash captain, I can pay 1PC for veteran intercessors. 

[Thoridon]

I feel at this stage Primaris have a lot of approaches covered. There are many anti-infantry options now available across the weapon choices for intercessors and Phobos units. You can put a lot of bodies on the table against infantry lists. Inceptors offer a fast choice too with the bolt variant and we can build Dreads/walkers and tanks for that role.

 

Similarly for anti-tank we now have different options with hellblasters, plasma inceptors and weapon choices on the new dreads and tanks.

 

What I feel we still lack for a pure Primaris force is the JP melee unit. To echo others, I miss that BA feel without some kind of JP unit zipping around looking to charge. I really think we need two added, or one with options - we need a JP unit with chain swords for chaff clearing and at least the choice to pack in heavy hitting weapons like fists/hammers to go after tough targets the way VV currently can.

 

I can happily swap intercessors in for tacticals, infiltrators for scouts and hellblasters for devastators, but until we get Primaris JP melee units I’ll still be running SG, DC or VV for that role.

[Blindhamster]

Lot of you seem to like veteran intercessor but it's hard for me to see why.

 

 

With only one special melee weapon and only the impulsor to bring them to fight, they are not a very good melee unit.

With 2W and bolt rifle / auto bolt rifle they are good objectif holding unit and with +1A they become a litlle more scary, but is it worth 1 CP ?

Mostly because veterans look cool, it's an excuse to paint then and build them differently. But also because even regular intercessors are quite dangerous as a unit - decent shooting and a good amount of attacks, sergeant getting all the melee weapon options youd hope for. An extra attack per model just pushes them to a pretty crazy level of attacks on such a cheap unit.

 

10 models have 31 attacks base as veterans, 41 on the charge via shock assault 5 of which can be power sword/fist/hammer. And they're fairly resilient too. Not bad on a unit with obseq that's fairly cheap.

 

It's just a cool thing ultimately though.

[Thoridon]

As an extra note, SG do already have a sort of Primarisy feel to them with the 2 wounds and being slightly larger than most older Marine sculpts. Their points drops also makes them easier to fit in as a punchy unit. There still really needs to be a generic Primaris melee unit for other chapters though, and SG can’t be run cheaply for chaff clearing the way chainsword DC can.

 

The way most Primaris units have limited melee upgrades I could see any new melee unit only getting basic AP0 weapons but that wouldn’t be so bad for anti-infantry jobs as long as SG stay around too for packing the extra punch.

[Blindhamster]

I think we will see primaris sanguinary guard when we see primaris dante. No sooner.

 

But that's not really the topic lol.

 

In terms of weight of attacks - reivers with a chaplain for the -4 AP thing seems like a fun one too?

[VanDutch]

I'm going to give Incursors and the Phobos Lt a go. With Master of the Vanguard Warlord Trait the incursors will be quite rapid and will be useful in both tactical and assault doctrine phases.

[Xenith]

Anyone seeing a use for the Phobos captain? I think he's the only vanguard character that can target other characters? He still only has the weak/short range D1 Instigator right? I just wish he could take a power sword!

[Panzer]

Well if you use Infiltrators you could use their upgrade to gain re-roll 1s without having him nearby.

Other than that being able to snipe is probably the only relevant thing he can do other Captains can't do. Perhaps he'd be nice when given the special issue wargear that gives other units +1 to hit in melee against the unit shot at by it?

[SnorriSnorrison]

To also answer the OP, I would say no.

 

Now, despite the fact that I only own a limited amount of primaris, I’ve not closed my halls to the future and been building some lists just for fun.

 

Primaris units feel very restricted, especially the characters. That’s an AoS thing I believe, but I don’t like it. Characters we should be able to kit out as we see fit for both the task at hand and for background reasons. Take that away and you take away some fun of the hobby.

 

With that restriction comes a specialization however, one that our Firstborn can’t reach even with doctrines. Intercessors have superior anti-infantry weapons over tacticals, but lack in flexibility. Primaris units are more akin to Eldar and their aspect warriors, just missing the anti-tank variant; Devastators reign supreme here.

 

What makes Blood Angels is speed and ferocity, and I’m missing that in Primaris marines.

There is no assault marine equivalent, and the jump pack units that are available aren’t used for assault as their primary role.

 

Vanguard units don’t really have that feeling either, they’re the sneaky ones that lurk around. Unfitting for marines in my view, but Phobos armour is the second best looking one, so there’s that.

 

With Primaris, what you’re currently playing is red Space Marines. Yes, that has its merits and is basically what we are, but none of the units are exclusive to the Blood Angels. Nothing made necessary by the flaw, no special tanks and no special war gear, either. The DC Intercessors are a first step, but I don’t like the implementation.

 

So, unless Primaris become what makes Blood Angels and what makes them stand out, I wouldn’t build an entire army around them with this our chapter. Bits and pieces, yes, sure.

[Karhedron]

But, you gain access to phobos units. I think this is where all Primaris Blood Angel armies are going to lean. Rocking three of the warsuits with the flamer, not entirely sure which phobos units are going to be the best yet though. Maybe something like this though? 

 

Infiltrator Squads x6 with comms arrays, Phobos Captain, Phobos Lieutenant, Phobos Librarian, Repulsor Executioners x2: Drop the Lieutenant with the Executioners? Everything else will start mid-board and should be able to assault T1.

I think that a mix of Infiltrators and Incursors might work best. Incursors are 20 points cheaper per squad than Infiltrators and have slightly more chance to process Red Thirst (paired combat blades) and slightly higher offensive output with their bolters.

[Blindhamster]

To also answer the OP, I would say no.

 

Now, despite the fact that I only own a limited amount of primaris, I’ve not closed my halls to the future and been building some lists just for fun.

 

Primaris units feel very restricted, especially the characters. That’s an AoS thing I believe, but I don’t like it. Characters we should be able to kit out as we see fit for both the task at hand and for background reasons. Take that away and you take away some fun of the hobby.

 

With that restriction comes a specialization however, one that our Firstborn can’t reach even with doctrines. Intercessors have superior anti-infantry weapons over tacticals, but lack in flexibility. Primaris units are more akin to Eldar and their aspect warriors, just missing the anti-tank variant; Devastators reign supreme here.

 

What makes Blood Angels is speed and ferocity, and I’m missing that in Primaris marines.

There is no assault marine equivalent, and the jump pack units that are available aren’t used for assault as their primary role.

 

Vanguard units don’t really have that feeling either, they’re the sneaky ones that lurk around. Unfitting for marines in my view, but Phobos armour is the second best looking one, so there’s that.

 

With Primaris, what you’re currently playing is red Space Marines. Yes, that has its merits and is basically what we are, but none of the units are exclusive to the Blood Angels. Nothing made necessary by the flaw, no special tanks and no special war gear, either. The DC Intercessors are a first step, but I don’t like the implementation.

 

So, unless Primaris become what makes Blood Angels and what makes them stand out, I wouldn’t build an entire army around them with this our chapter. Bits and pieces, yes, sure.

 

Interestingly, Eliminators out perform Devastators.

 

In terms of speed, I think auto bolt rifles are the way to go - 3 shots @24" regardless of moving or standing still and they can be fired even after advancing - which couples well with our +1 to advance rule. meaning they can move 7+1d6 (10") a round and still put out a lot of shots. The Repulsor and Impuslor are also faster than traditional marine transports generally so they don't lose out there either.

 

I think the unique unit thing is interesting, mostly because I've never used much death company - usually only a unit at most, and more often than not, none. I similarly only really used a single unit of sanguinary guard at most, usually only using DC OR SG, not both as well. But to me, they aren't what makes blood angels, blood angels, they're part of it, but never felt like a necessity. Similar to how I more often than not used on foot characters, most notably Tycho whom was my captain of choice for many many years. I'd go as far as to say I absolutely loathe Death Company heavy armies or the full Death Company armies. If Blood Angels fall on that scale that often - they wouldn't exist. A small unit is all i tend to use because from a lore perspective it makes sense, and I honeslty don't feel they're really needed - they just aren't that great anymore, all the things that made DC great in 3rd/4th ed are barely even a thing anymore.

 

 

I think this is a big part of why i found the switch to primaris blood angels so easy, i've always liked to play with foot sloggers in transports and fairly limited jump pack presence. I've never over indulged in the BA unique units and actually rarely used a bunch of them. So Primaris were essentially a straight upgrade to my preferred play style.

 

I really do feel like the recent update rewards not going for the hard and fast first turn assault too, make full use of the various levels of the doctrine to achieve success sort of thing.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Blindhamster