Knights of Sigismund and Master Swordsman Interaction

[MarshallRigaud]

So, I dont know how this would work, I think I've read other people talking about how an interaction like this would work in. Faq somewhere but I hear no idea where.

 

Knights says unmodified 6s auto hit and auto wound.

 

Master swordsman says unmodified 6s cause 2 hits.

 

I'm thinking that the way this works is 6s give you 1 auto wound, and the second auto hit from master swordsman is then rolled to see if it wounds. Or does the first 6 then cause 2 auto wounds.

 

Information on where this is clarified would be great if you can tell me where it can be found.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

The answer is in the current space marine FAQ. The answer is that a 6 causes an auto-wound under Knights, and an extra hit dice which you need to roll to wound.

 

Even more confusing is the impact of Grimaldus.

 

A 6 in his vicinity grants the auto wound and hit above, plus an extra hit dice. I'm pretty sure then, that if you roll another 6 with that dice, then that generates another auto wound with Knights and another hit with Swordmaster.

[Medjugorje]

should ask GW - ask that for the next FAQ. Maybe they Change that a Little bit.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

should ask GW - ask that for the next FAQ. Maybe they Change that a Little bit.

Why?

 

What's wrong with any of that?

[Medjugorje]

Because at the moment I think its just one autowound and one additional hit... 

[Kyliadan]

Here are the relevant FAQ points, as far as I know :

 

Q: If an ability or rule generates an additional hit (e.g. the Siege Masters Chapter Tactic or Whirlwind of Rage), do these additional hits gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?

A: No. If any additional hits are scored as the result of a particular hit roll, those additional hits are not considered to have been made with any hit roll – they simply hit the target and you must continue the attack sequence for them (i.e. make a wound roll).

Designer’s Note: In the previous iteration of this FAQ , this question was ruled differently. Since that document was published, unintended combinations have come to light (such as some players interpreting that this allowed an infinite hit loop, effectively destroying any unit in the game as soon as a single 6 to hit is rolled – which was obviously never the intent of the rule), as well as that ruling being used as a precedent for similar abilities in other publications. As such, we have changed the answer to this question to ensure a more rewarding experience for all players.

 

From the SM codex FAQ.

 

 

Q: Some abilities can cause extra hits or wounds on a specific roll e.g. ‘Each hit roll of 6 scores 2 hits instead of 1’ and ‘Each hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit on the target’. Are these abilities cumulative?

A: It depends on the exact wording of the rule in question. Rules that ‘score 2 (or more) hits instead of 1’ are not cumulative. Rules that ‘score 1 (or more) additional hits’ are cumulative. Here are some examples to show how these rules interact:

1. If a model is affected by two different rules that say that on a hit roll of 6 that attack ‘scores 2 hits instead of 1’ then a hit roll of 6 will still only result in 2 hits being scored against the target unit.

2. If a model is affected by two different rules that say that on a hit roll of 6 that attack ‘scores 1 additional hit‘ on the target, then a hit roll of 6 will result in 3 hits being scored against the target unit.

3. If a model is affected by two different rules, one that says that on a hit roll of 6 that attack ‘scores 2 hits instead of 1’ and one that says that on a hit roll of 6 that attack ‘scores 1 additional hit‘ against the target, then a hit roll of 6 will result in 3 hits being scored against the target unit.

From the rulebook FAQ

[Acebaur]

Because at the moment I think its just one autowound and one additional hit...

I don't understand what you mean?

[Hymnblade]

Even more confusing is the impact of Grimaldus.

 

A 6 in his vicinity grants the auto wound and hit above, plus an extra hit dice. I'm pretty sure then, that if you roll another 6 with that dice, then that generates another auto wound with Knights and another hit with Swordmaster.

By RAW, I'm pretty sure Grimaldus' exploding sixes can generate extra hits via Swordmaster. That conceivably could get FAQed I guess, but it's not a new combo and doesn't generate infinite chains, so I kind of doubt it will. Getting four hits (with two of them auto-wounding) from one attack is awesome, but only happens one time in 36 even when you set up all the pieces to do it.

[Kyliadan]

From reading the FAQ answers plus Grimaldus rule, I think this is how it would unfurl :

 

You roll a 6 :

- that die is a auto-hit/auto-wound (-> Knights of Sigismund)
- it generates a second hit (-> Master Swordsman), you need to roll to wound with this one

- it generates an additional attack (-> Unmatched Zeal)

 

If that second attack is a 6 :

- same as above, but this time it does not trigger Unmatched Zeal.

[Medjugorje]

thats correct so far. But it would be better if Master Swordman would generate 2 autowounds.

[Hymnblade]

It would indeed be stronger that way, but they specifically FAQed it to not do that.

[Crusader7]

BT were almost certainly designed with this interaction in mind. The copious amounts of exploding hits in the codex alongside the several restrictions (Must have charged, not attacking vehicles) make it clear the designers put them in place to prevent us from dropping 20 wounds on a knight with chaff.

 

It's a little irritating that we almost got our time in the sun only to get shutdown by a retconned interaction.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I'm happy with it. It's still strong, without being broken, and fluffy.