Chaos Points Adjustments in CA19

[Iron Father Ferrum]

There's two different Hades cannons. The "Hades cannon" is a Lord of Skulls option, the "Hades autocannon" is the Forgefiend option. Edited December 2, 2019 by Iron Father Ferrum

[TrawlingCleaner]

There's two different Hades cannons. The "Hades cannon" is a Lord of Skulls option, the "Hades autocannon" is the Forgefiend option.

 

Ah okay, that makes way more sense. It was either that or the Forgefiend was hilariously overcosted.

Bring a lot of Chaos choices in line with their loyalist counterparts was really needed and a good move from GW, as others have said I still think theres some stuff that needs to be brought down some more but this is a step in the right direction for sure.

[DreamIsCollapsing]

With those news point cost a CSM Brigade with 

 

HQ : Chaos lord, Jetpack sorcerer and Dark apostle w/ Disciples

Troops : 5*5 SMC and 10 Cultust

Heavy support : 2*5 Havoks without wepaons

Fast attack : 2 Spawn and 5 Warptalons

Elite = 5 Terminators and 2 Greater Possessed

 

1088 points. It leave 912 points to equip the Havoks, get a third Heavy support chooce and add whatever you want. Do you think with the point cost reduction Brigade is the way ? 

[TrawlingCleaner]

With those news point cost a CSM Brigade with 

 

HQ : Chaos lord, Jetpack sorcerer and Dark apostle w/ Disciples

Troops : 5*5 SMC and 10 Cultust

Heavy support : 2*5 Havoks without wepaons

Fast attack : 2 Spawn and 5 Warptalons

Elite = 5 Terminators and 2 Greater Possessed

 

1088 points. It leave 912 points to equip the Havoks, get a third Heavy support chooce and add whatever you want. Do you think with the point cost reduction Brigade is the way ? 

 

Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points. While it could be seen that HQs can be tax slots, for the way Chaos seems to work and the way the game is going: HQs with auras make their points back quick. For about 30 more points you can have an exalted champion or 20 more a Warpsmith

[Brom MKIV]

 If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. 

[Closet Skeleton]

 

Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points.

 

 Brigade is 15 cp, dual battalion is 13 so no you don't get extra CP unless you're going for red corsairs. triple battalion is 18 cp and can be better than a brigade but I'm not sure its really an option for chaos.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[Kain Mor]

By the way brigade is 3 of each slot as well, not 2.

[Iron Father Ferrum]

By the way brigade is 3 of each slot as well, not 2.

You obviously didn't read his whole post.

[Marshal Loss]

 

 

Personally dual Battalion is always the way to go, fast attack choices aren't really that needed in a lot of armies and for only an extra HQ slot you've got an extra few command points.

 

 Brigade is 15 cp, dual battalion is 12 so no you don't get extra CP unless you're going for red corsairs. triple battalion is 17 cp and can be better than a brigade but I'm not sure its really an option for chaos.

 

 

A dual battalion is 13 CP total, not 12 (making a triple 18, not 17).

 

 

 If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. 

 

A very fair point. I'll be interested to see if either of those two Legions begin using Brigades now

Edited December 2, 2019 by Marshal Loss

[Sonoftherubric21]

On that note: GW give us new Zerkers and Noise Marines! Right now especially those feel like gold mines for GW. 

 

I can see WE and definitely EC detachments being standard for many chaos builds. 

[techsoldaten]

 If your using a legion with really strong troops like WE its definitely worth a look. Maybe for EC too now. 

 

A very fair point. I'll be interested to see if either of those two Legions begin using Brigades now

 

For EC specifically, I don't think there's a case to be made for a Brigade. You lose too much on the elite slot, there's almost no reason not to optimize around troops and heavies.

 

Would love to be convinced otherwise.

 

For WE, I love the idea of 10x Red Butchers to fill an elite slot. I guess melee Helbrutes could fill the other 2? Otherwise, it's easy to see how a normal WE detachment could fill out a batallion.

[Brom MKIV]

Yes I agree although elites are doable I believe. Its the troops which suffer from diminishing return. The first is money, the second redundancy from there its filler. 

If I wanted to attempt it I'd probably start with something like this:

10 NM 2 blastmasters as a firebase for 154. I used these for awhile they're solid with all the ablatives.

Add 10 more with 2 blastmasters and 5 SBs rhino, then probably 2x5 with blastmaster and SBs in rhinos, and 2 cultists. 

Elites would probably be a mix of contemptors which nearly always feature in my lists. And lastly maybe a sonic dread.

HQs are murderously good and FA/HS both have strong options. Meh anyway..

 

 

World eaters now.. I believe can make a very solid brigade probably the best of all csm. Its just so threat dense its ridiculous. 

 

Edit edit- ya scratch that. I can't build a brigade list I like even with WE. Too many sub optimal filler choices.

Edited December 3, 2019 by Brom MKIV

[Closet Skeleton]

I think WE are one of the better dual battalion legions due to their good troops while brigades are more viable with the other Legions.

 

Plausible basis for a WE brigade with 1925 points so some room to make it work

 

Jump Pack Lord

 

Exalted Champ

 

Dark Apostle

 

5 khorne berserkers, 4 chain axes and power fist x6

 

5 terminators with combi-bolter and chainaxe x3

 

5 warp talons x3

 

1x Obliterator x3

 

rhinos x3

 

Good target saturation to protect the rhinos would be swapping obliterators for venomcrawlers and the terminators for missile/lascannon helbrutes

Edited December 3, 2019 by Closet Skeleton

[Dragonlover]

Anyone seen if the Kytan and Fire Raptor have changed?

 

Dragonlover

[Brom MKIV]

Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.

[Kythnos]

Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.

Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes.

 

Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS?

Edited December 4, 2019 by Kythnos

[MegaVolt87]

Lord of Skulls looks like it belongs in AoS than 40k. Would rather use the forge feind gatlings for a double avenger knight conversion.

[Khornestar]

 

Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.

Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes.

Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS?

I think it could work fine. The LoS hades Gatling has a slightly wider diameter, but the FF’s hades should fit fine with a little work.

[Fhanados]

Wow CA19 is super kind to my collection! I'm especially excited about the drop in points for Fallen - I've got 30 of the blighters so that alone shaves 90 points off my Fallen detachment. I basically get Cypher for free now!

 

The drops to Obliterators and Forgefiends are also really nice. They were an old staple in my now-decommissioned Word Bearers army and I'll always have a soft spot for them. Maybe along with the drops on the Lord of Skulls I'll be able to finally make my Daemon Engine force!

[Irate Khornate]

With the new 40 point price tag on the thunderhammer for characters, anyone else dropping it from their lists?

[Dr_Ruminahui]

I'm certainly not as eager to convert up a hammerlord as I was before - so I'm not dropping one from my lists, but may well not be adding one where I was thinking of doing so prior to the points jump.

[Brom MKIV]

Gone from mine. Prior to the update but definitely not coming back now.

Besides we have new smash princes now which are better!

[Special Officer Doofy]

Sucks though they make a new chaos lord and monopose him with only a hammer in the kit, then jack the point cost up.

[Kythnos]

 

 

Kytan iirc did not but the lord of skulls is crazy cheap now. Might see more proxys using the kytan. I just faced one and it was insane. Healing, dice mods, strats, psych.. I took it to 2w then it swung in cc with 27 attacks hitting on 2s rerolling 1s to hit and wound. Then healed 8 wounds back. Awesome unit now.

Yeah I am also looking to get a Lord of Skulls now. It looks really nice on paper after the changes.

Anyone know if the Forgefiend's gatling fits as the gatling for the LoS?

I think it could work fine. The LoS hades Gatling has a slightly wider diameter, but the FF’s hades should fit fine with a little work.

Thanks, that helps. I will give it a try then.

[nanosquid]

Thunder hammers are still only 16 points on chosen. I think 31 attacks on the charge will be ok even if they only hit on 4s. Edited December 7, 2019 by Nazgob