Adepta Sororitas 8th Ed Review - by PT

[Purifying Tempest]

Disclaimer:  I am not a super competitive player.  I am not an approved authority on what is good and what is not, and these are purely my opinion, not a supposition of fact.  I've also never wrote a review, but I think individual unit breakdowns are a general waste of time, and that the value of those units fluctuates greatly within the confines of their convictions/stratagems available/synergies with other units... so I won't waste your time with unit-by-unit analysis.

 

Overview

 

I wanted to take a look at the new 8th edition Codex.  It has been a long time in the making, and a pretty bumpy road of ups and downs.  I’ve never fancied myself as a hardcore and competitive player and I don’t sit down at the table and math out exactly what value a unit has on the table, but I am not totally beer-n-pretzels and tend to look at things from a fluff as well as a functional point-of-view.  I’m not a grizzled veteran, I’ve been playing since the mid 2000’s, Sororitas for about 10 years now.  I actually got into Sisters of Battle back near the dawn of 6th edition when I thought they would make a good addition to my “crusader” looking army, the Grey Knights.  I knew little of the lore back then, and was merely working on aesthetics back then, you know… far before I knew about a little clip of lore that shall not be named.  Irony struck back, though, I am now using Grey Knights Steel paint pretty regularly for my Sororitas army… so the favor has been returned.  Thanks!

 

Anyways, I wanted to share some of my thoughts on the various things within the codex and get it down in written form.  I’ll probably have to do it a bit differently than “this unit is good” or “this weapon is better than that one” because it looks like there is a subtle complexity in the codex and stuff shifts around pretty rapidly depending on Order conviction, Sacred Rites, and supporting pieces behind it.  I guess I can start up with the things that benefit from none of that junk… so without further ado…

 

My review! (of the Ministorum… aka: the stuff that I think doesn't matter)

Additional background when it comes to the Ministorum… I never liked them because they conflicted so thematically with my GK army… and even now they seem at a bit of odds against the Adepta Sororitas, but not nearly as bad.  So if I seem a little down on them, that’s why.

 

Overall, I’m not very impressed with how they wove in the AdMin forces.  The codex definitely feels like it paid particular attention to the Sororitas and just ported in the AdMin guys to leave them there.  Preachers and Missionaries just feel underwhelming for their price points. Crusaders would likely be ignored unless they were on an objective, and then they would probably wither and die to small arms fire (boltguns are particularly good vs them) just to pepper them down without bothering too much with the Storm Shield.  Death Cult Assassins just feel like worse Arco-flagellants.  And Arco-flagellants feel like the only usable unit out of the lot.  They are definitely a bully unit that may pop up now and then for their ability to make the opponent misplay them, or to sneak in to do some damage while other units are of a higher priority.  And since you can take one Battle Conclave unit without requiring a Missionary tax, I think this is the only one that will see some play.  I’m sure some people will make some AdMin armies, but I doubt they’ll be that visible overall, and I mean no offense in calling your stuff bad… I just don’t see the purpose, especially since none of it takes a detachment slot to help make things like Brigades or cheap Vanguards.

 

Okay, that was fast.  Now on to the meat of the codex.  I am going to try to look at this from an Order point of view.  I think the units by themselves are just middling, and in order to get a good look at them, you have to look at how they’d be on the table… and that would probably be judged by the order conviction, relevant sacred rites, warlord/relics, and order locked stratagems.

 

Our Martyred Lady:

 

Conviction: Gain MD for an OML unit dying.  Units with lost models get +1 hit rolls.
Stratagem: After an OML Character is destroyed by an opponent, OML units reroll hit rolls of 1 for the rest of the battle.
Warlord Trait (WLT): +1 Wound, +1 Armor save
Relic: Inferno Pistol +1

 

So first, I think their Conviction is a little bi-polar.  I want to lose units to get those MD, but I want units to be hurt, yet unbroken to get that +1 to hit rolls.  Overall, I would probably stick to playing small units to get extra MD and feed all of that into more crucial units like Exorcists and melta guns.  I do think that the Stratagem is really handy, and makes for wanting to bring the support characters.  A bunch of cheapy ones handing out annoying buffs… possibly putting themselves in harms way just to coax the stratagem into play.  It’ll definitely pull stress off of your Canoness and allow a little relief from needing to dedicate a Relic to Book of Saint Lucius to extend that reroll aura.  I also know that the relic is straight better than an Inferno Pistol, but there’s a lot of good relics in the book… not sure if +1 STR and full-range melta rule is really something that’s going to shift a lot of games… but it is also a direct upgrade over an inferno pistol if nothing else strikes the fancy.  The relic will make people who were hoping for a jump Canoness just a little more salty, though, thinking about how nice it would have been on her.

 

Overall, I don’t think OML is bad, but it seems very pedestrian and doesn’t change things up a whole lot.  The Sacred Rites aren’t really going to push them over the hump either.  I think they’ll favor Spirit of the Martyr, and then probably swap in Aegis of the Emperor if they are squaring off against a psyker heavy list.  There’s probably a bit of elegance in that, as well, since being forced into Aegis of the Emperor won’t hurt them nearly as much as like Bloody Rose who will want to sit on other Rites and will be very reluctant to come out of them.

 

On the table, I see OML making use of lots of Battle Sister Squads.  They come stock with 3 upgraded weapons, so they can get a high density of threatening weapons, encouraging your opponent to deal with them.  They’ll probably bring a backfield of Exorcists, I don’t see a reason not to.  Exorcists can use the MD as well, until the squads of BSS creep up with their meltaguns and start using them as well.  I think this army will be more of a well-balanced approach and will favor TAC style games since they’re not really being forced in any particular direction with their list building.  That being said, I think they’re going to lack a bit in really putting together strong combos to turn the momentum back in their favor.  Their strongest attribute seems to be that they can easily shed their Sacred Rite to flop over to Aegis of the Emperor with minimal disruption to their game play.

 

Final thoughts on Our Martyred Lady:

Vanilla ice cream is bland, but still ice cream, and we love it.  I think OML was the base in which all of the other convictions branched.  It just seems very generic and safe... much like vanilla ice cream.

 

Valorous Heart:

 

Conviction: 6+ FNP.  Ignores -1 AP (ignores -1, not reduces AP by 1).  Can ignore -2 with an Imagifier
Stratagem: 1 CP to ignore hit roll modifiers for a VH unit.
WLT: 5+ FNP
Relic: -1T to units in melee range with the bearer.

 

Valorous Heart has been a tough nut to crack for me.  Their WLT and Relic are fairly meh, the WLT has a bit more value when there’s a bunch of snipers lurking about.  The stratagem is very situational, but you’ll probably be turning the game when you use it.  The conviction is just… good.  They’re going to be thirsty for miracle dice, though, as there’s not a lot of ways to generate extras or reuse some of the ones you have.

 

I think Valorous Heart is going to try to optimize the space it spends in cover, getting 4++ saves to large portions of the army, and just being incredibly hard to break down.  It should be noted that it acts as a free Spirit Stones (for all you Eldar players out there) for your vehicles.  Your PEngines and Mortifiers are still sad, though.  Doing a little math you can possibly squeeze 1.5 more wounds into a Rhino/Immolator, and 2 more wounds out of Exorcists and Repressors.  In cover, Valorous Heart units will have a 2+ armor that they’ll get to roll against anything, and things tough enough to break down their armor will likely only take them to their invulnerable.  I THINK this will be a good thing, but that depends on if the meta slides back towards Plasma spam to combat primaris creep, as plasma becomes pretty much the best way to take out Valorous Heart models in cover.  Toss in a Hospitaller to patch up units that lost a priority model or to buff up their numbers if only bolt-gals are down, watch your opponent’s head spin.

I’m particularly thinking things like Retributors with Multi-meltas camping towards the middle of the deployment zone, possibly moving up a little, so long as they stay in cover.  They can zap baddies with their Multi-melta, enjoy a 2+ cover save, and really threaten deeper targets with Storm of Retribution.  I mused in another thread about Aeldari flier spam vs. Valorous Heart… those rets will probably make incredibly short work of the flyers (and Alaitoc in general).  The more MD, CP, and support you feed into it the worse it gets, too.  I could see lists featuring dug in Retributors coming out of this Order.
Sacred Rites wise, I don’t think there’s much that Valorous Heart will be really hungering for.  If they go with volumes of shots, they’ll probably favor Divine Guidance.  Otherwise they’ll probably play very similarly to OML and want to use Spirit of the Martyr by default and switch up to Aegis of the Emperor when they’re being bullied with psychic power.  Their lack of relying on Sacred Rites, though, will probably work to their favor, as they’ll have more flexibility to really lock down the psychic phase without interrupting their own activities.

 

Overall, expect to see VH armies favoring dug in approaches and making a pretty good use of ignoring -2 AP.  It should be noted that the Order Conviction blocks AP against vehicles as well, so things like Missile Launchers and LRBT Battle Cannons will be a lot less threatening to the parking lot than normal.  That only goes so far, though, as reaper missiles, melta, lascannons really won’t care.  Expect to invest in a few Imagifiers if you’re running this Order, though.

 

I think granting 6+ FNP to vehicles may also add value to mechanized lists since they largely benefit from Order convictions, but I think Argent Shroud will possibly do better unless you're not running vehicles that benefit from their conviction.  I also think castled Valorous Heart lists are going to play way stronger than mech Valorous Heart.

 

Final thought on Valorous Heart:
Valorous Heart parking lot with an Imagifier standing behind an Exorcist (to block Sniper fire/LoS).  Give her Beacon of Faith for a little extra MD support or Indomitable Belief if you’re camping on a lot of infantry (probably Beacon of Faith, though), and then give her the Book of St. Lucius to extend her auras to 9”.  That little Imagifier should be really annoying to dig out for Slay the Warlord and should do a lot of work keeping the castled part of the army safer.

 

Bloody Rose:

Conviction: Pistols and Melee weapons receive an additional -1 AP to their attacks.  +1 attack on a turn the model entered combat.
Stratagem: +1 to wound rolls for a unit in the fight phase.
WLT: +1 Attack, can advance and charge
Relic: +1 STR, -2 AP, 2D chainsword that grants +3 attacks instead of just 1.

 

Bloody Rose is probably the most straight forward of all the orders.  They’re clearly going to favor the assault part of the game, and pistols… lots of pistols.  You know what units has lots of pistols and like to assault?  Seraphim and Zyphyrim.  I’m pretty certain Bloody Rose lists are going to max these units out.  They’ll probably try to work out some ways to get Repentia in there, too, as they benefit from the Order conviction and stratagem.  Otherwise, expect large portions of the army to muddle around and “play the objective game” while the shock units make a mess of the threat matrix your opponent was using.

Oddly, I can see Bloody Rose using Dominions, as well, as bad as they are.  Dominions could possibly advance (I have no idea if they can advance during the scout move, so feel free to ridicule me for this) and then move their normal 6” on turn 1… and be within 12” of the opponent’s lines.  That gives them nasty tricks with Storm Bolters to help clear up bubble wrap and chaff that has strayed too far forward, giving more room for the drop troops on turn 2 and 3.  I would probably field 2-3 units of Seraphim for Deadly Descent on turn 2 and turn 3.  Those squads coming in will likely be full-sized to have 14 bolt pistols, 1 plasma pistol, and 4 inferno pistols all coming to bear, with the bolt and plasma pistols hitting again during the shooting phase.

 

Their miracle dice generation is going to be very slow, like Valorous Heart, and probably will be forcing things away from their play style to take a WLT like Beacon of Faith to help smooth it out.  I think maybe the Triumph of Saint Katherine may be useful in a BR army, and it’d give your opponent something to play with on turn 1 instead of zapping your objective scorers while your assault elements are waiting to hit.  Their Sacred Rites are likely going to be tied up with The Passion or Hand of the Emperor.  If they play Repentia strong, you’re more likely to see The Passion… if Seraphim/Zephyrim are the flavor, then you’ll probably see Hand of the Emperor to back that 9” charge down to 8” when they drop in.  Support elements will probably match the army loadout you see, so not much sense in going there.  But that said, you’ll probably see the odd Missionary, Arcos, Imagifiers with 2 Litanies, etc for foot-based armies.  There’s not much support for jump units, unfortunately, so the only support you can get is what support you can move into range by turn 2.

Overall, this army will be pretty much as advertised: a very close-range skirmishing army that’s going to want to take the fight to the opponent instead of waiting for it to come.  My thoughts on this playstyle in Warhammer 40K 8th edition is mixed.  I don’t think it is bad, but the deck is definitely stacked against melee armies, especially ones that cannot drop support in with the units.  I think it will be fun, but probably an uphill struggle.

 

Final thought for Bloody Rose:
Mortifiers have the speed to cross the table to be in an assault position on turn 2.  They also have heavy bolters to thin out chaff that is inconveniently place… and they’ll hit on 4 after an advance.  I think Mortifiers + Zephyrim are going to be a sneaky good assault line on turn 2, provided your opponent can’t deal with all of the Mortifiers you field.  With Zephyrim buffing Mortifiers, you have reroll charges and can spend a CP to use Embodied Prophecy to reroll some wound rolls of 1.  I don’t think it is as strong as the Valorous Heart castle, but I think it can definitely catch an opponent off guard and ensure a bit more carnage as you dive into those lines.  Again, fun and exciting… but maybe not the most competitive thing to hit the table.

 

Ebon Chalice:

Conviction: 5+ FNP vs Mortals.  Use an AoF and discard an additional MD to force the MD used to be a 6.
Stratagem: Auto-6 on flame weapons when rolling number of shots for a unit.
WLT: Your first MD at the beginning of the game is a 6, not rolled.  Get +d3 CP at the beginning of the game.
Relic: STR 5, -2 AP, d3 damage condemner that can snipe and auto-3 damage vs psykers.

I was pretty stoked when I first saw Ebon Chalice coming together, but I have kind of cooled on them since.  They automatically have a 6 sitting in their MD pool, which is always awesome to bully people with, especially off of Exorcist tanks sitting around.  Their WLT is really weak, and probably best used with Heroine in the Making.  Heroine in the Making is at least free, and you get that auto-6 in your MD pool, but after the start of the game… it’s nothing.

My first thought with this conviction is to make Flamers good.  And by flamers I mean Heavy Flamers.  And by Heavy Flamers I mean Retributors.  Retributors are probably going to become a theme overall.  I mean, it is really easy to point at 4 HF Rets with 2 cherubs point 12” flamers down the table.  That’s an easy 36 dice on one volley.  But then you’re probably going to toss Storm of Retribution on that, too, in order to reroll wounds.  That’s a 4 CP investment on top of a pricy unit that is likely going to have ablative wounds or a box to keep them safe until they can deliver.  And then they’re probably going to deliver it into a screen for the real good target…

I think this is a case of the paper and numbers just not adding up to what you’ll see on the table.  I like 12” heavy flamers, I think they have a place in the army, but I think going this deep into that rabbit hole may be a list-crafting trap.  That being said, I think HF Rets with some extra bodies, probably in Rhinos or Repressors will be a pretty ugly sight with Ebon Chalice.  I don’t think it is going to win games, but I think it will shake people pretty hard, especially people that can’t bubble wrap high-value targets properly and lets those Rets get into pricy models with their flamers.  Not sure how Intercessors will feel about them, but Intercessors in cover should be sitting on 3+ armor and 36 hits rerolling wounds on a 3+… that’s probably not going to be a good day for them.  In a vacuum it is awesome.

Fortunately for Ebon Chalice, they’re going to enjoy their choice of Sacred Rite, as they’re not going to need to rely on any particular 1 to enhance their own gameplay.  Divine Guidance will likely be a little interesting for them, especially with the flamer storm… -2 AP heavy flamer hits helps get the point across a little more efficiently.  I could see Ebon Chalice wanting to play with some larger squads (like 10, maybe…), so Light of the Emperor could save a few from a bad morale roll… but then again, why would your opponent stop at the 5-6 boltgun bodies in the Ret squad with 4 heavy flamers?  That’s just bad play on his side, but it can make relying on morale to zap the last couple of gals in a squad a bit riskier.  I think Ebon Chalice would play with Aegis of the Emperor or Spirit of the Martyr before Light of the Emperor, though, and I think Divine Guidance edges those other two out if you’re really all-in on the Heavy Flamer game.  Also, expect to see a few Hospitallers if big squads are the thing, but I think Hospitallers are going to more favor the Valorous Heart Castle or Sacred Rose blobs.

Final thoughts on Ebon Chalice:

I was hoping to be witty here, but my final note will actually be a knock against Ebon Chalice.  Exorcist Conflagration Rockets are not flame weapons.  I was laughing at the thought of 18 shot Exorcists flattening squads with relative ease, but alas… I get to call this out as not being possible.  Such a miss.  Still, having a 6 sitting in your MD pool with an Exorcist on the table is a huge threat.  Just about anything can be bracketed if a wound goes through, your opponent will respect it.

 

Argent Shroud:

Conviction: Advance moves without the stigma of having advanced
Stratagem: 5+ FNP vs mortals
WLT: 6” Heroic Intervention and fights first if assaulted or intervenes
Relic: -1 hit rolls vs this model

I was pretty high on Argent Shroud when they first came out… and like Ebon Chalice I’ve cooled on them a lot, too.  Their conviction was spoiled by Warhammer Community, and like the rest of the world I was thinking: oh, this is going to be THE conviction.  Then I read all of the rest of their rules and found out that it was like the ONE THING you get for being Argent Shroud.  But, if you ever wanted to have Battle Focus (again, a shout out to the Aeldari players!) on your army, well… here’s the opportunity you’ve been waiting for.

All Argent Shroud is really doing is taking the extra Miracle Dice granted by OML and turning it into mobility.  Fortunately, mobility is VERY valuable on just about any table of 40K.  Advancing HF Rets also becomes less irritating and enables a clever deployment and fortuitous advance roll for the Rets to get those heavy flamers into burninating range of some chaff on turn 1, so you can start making them earn their points back.  This may also give a solid bit of value to Repressors and Immolators (without Immolation turrets), allowing them to use their weapons while also getting those few extra inches of movement for positioning.  And I think this is primarily where Argent Shroud is going to get some advantage:  Repressors + Advancing.  If Repressor rush is your thing, this may be a consolidation prize for Dominions getting whacked a good one.

Argent Shroud is another really general-purpose Conviction, but I think they’ll put a bit more value into the Hand of the Emperor Sacred Rite.  They’ll be doing a lot of advancing, and this will make the base movement for practically every one of their dismounted units a nice 8”-13”, blush with envy you wretched Xenos players!  I just see Argent Shroud units using the extra movement to bound up the table from cover to cover while using their full assortment of weapons in the process.  Maybe HB Rets play a hand in here… they’re nice and cheap, ignore moving penalty, and can position around efficiently while still having a good range to dial up some pain.  They’ll probably regret choosing Aegis of the Emperor a bit more than the other more-vanilla Orders, since it is hurting their mobility by just a little, but I don’t think it would be as burdensome as swapping Rites for the Bloody Rose.

 

I may be a bit forward, but I think this will be one of the better mechanized orders, especially on the back of Repressors.

Final thoughts on Argent Shroud:

Mobility wins games of 40K.  3+ armor saves in cover are very strong.  Being able to move easily around the table and stay in cover seems like it could win games, but I just don’t know where the game is going to go when you NEED to kill something.  Moving is also very disruptive for aligning buffs, which seems to be where Sororitas can make up some ground.  Maybe horde is the way to go here… just fan out and occupy the table and try to limit the casualties enough to draw out the game while scoring points a bit easier?  Court is out for deliberations on this order, for me at least.

 

FINALLY!  THE LAST ORDER!

 

Sacred Rose:

Conviction: 5+ Overwatch, get a MD on a 5+ roll after using an AoF.  No more than 1 gal runs from morale.
Stratagem: One unit gets exploding 6s on hit rolls with bolt weapons (each 6 = 2 hits)
WLT: Auto-gain an MD (instead of getting it on a 5+) when your WL uses an AoF (not stackable)
Relic: Lots of words… tl;dr: mess with daemon units, and you get an ability to fire d3 mortal wounds at a unit within 12” on a 2+.  Spend a MD after using it to shoot or it cannot be used to shoot again.

Where Ebon Chalice and Argent Shroud were my bandwagon orders but I cooled on after the release… Sacred Rose improved itself greatly in my eyes.  And I won’t shy here: I spent a lot of time thinking about how to use these gals on the battlefield.  I love bolt weapons almost as much as I love flamers.  Sacred Rose seems to REALLY love bolt weapons, and large squads.  They are also one of the better Orders for managing your MD income, and can do so without having to sacrifice entire units.  Now they’re only getting 33% of their MD back, but what I found really interesting is that you can use this to potentially throw away a 2 to a Canoness’ hit roll or a cover save or something silly to try to fish for it not being something that sucks.  Even throw them away for morale rolls a bit more frequently to try to get them back on a better face (but that is like… what?  16.66% of you tossing it, getting it back, and then popping a 4+?).  But that’s not out of the realm of reason, can probably get an additional high-faced MD once per game more than you would have without that.

I think HB Rets will find a new home here.  SB Doms will likely feature here as well.  And both units will probably be packing additional bodies to make sure The Emperor’s Judgment is giving you the full value of that CP.  As for the battlefield, I think this army would be a bit more likely to fan out and take the midfield than orders like Valorous Heart… but not nearly as pushy as Bloody Rose.  Where I think this order is going to make its presence felt is maxed squads, maxed squads with a supplemental focus on bolt weapons at least to make ample use of their stratagem, and some MD shenanigans to try to “luck” into those 5 and 6 faces on their MD more regularly.  They’ll probably use Dialogus and Incensor Cherubs a bit more liberally, especially to make Morale an even bigger joke with their large squads.

I can go on a bit more, but the more I look at it, the more I really think this Order is going to be about shifting the hands of fate a bit harder with MD than any other order.  Simulacrums allow you to perform additional AoFs with those squads, Incensor Cherubs give you a phantom MD (2d6 take the highest even) than you can then turn into a REAL MD on a 5+ after the fact.  I think this will definitely make meltaguns valuable to them, as well, to at least get some value out of that Incensor Cherub and Order conviction.  Dialogus models help you get more value out of those crummy low faces while you try to toss them out to roll again into better faces.  Everything will probably be secondary to Sacred Rose while they play the MD mini-game.
I think they’ll be much like Argent Shroud with their Sacred Rite… probably favoring Divine Guidance since they’ll be a volume-focused army.  They will have a bit of extra flexibility to choose another Sacred Rite, but will probably shy away from the others and only opt for Aegis of the Emperor when the match calls for it.  Funny enough, I think Sacred Rose would love to see matches where it can get a chance to toss out Aegis of the Emperor, to get those extra MD for denying powers with Shield of Faith to further fuel their MD churn.

Final thoughts on Sacred Rose:
Okay, so this is where I speak about gimmicks.  SB Doms + The Emperor’s Judgment + Blessed Bolts = 2 CP for up to 16 SB shots that have exploding 6s and can get up to -3 AP.  I would definitely max out this squad, though, to get the extra exploding 6s and -1 AP on the bolter rounds.  HB Rets + The Emperor’s Judgment + Storm of Retribution is a more expensive variant that is probably weaker than Blessed Bolts… but you’d be hitting on 2s, exploding 6s, and have -2 AP on those 6s to wound as well.  Sprinkle with Canoness and you should be getting the max you can out of these.  Again, sprinkle with extra bodies and Hospitallers to maximize the Judgment and salt mining.  It should be noted, though, that you can do both of these in the same turn (well, Storm of Retribution and Blessed Bolts, you’ll have to decide which unit gets The Emperor’s Judgment).  That will likely just depend on if you’re targeting Primaris guys or not, since the D2 will optimize the deaths per shot, and the Rets will only be hitting with D1 weapons.

Anyways, please let me know what you think!  Let me know if there’s stuff I should remove, modify, replace, or add.  My brain is decent, but the internet is definitely big-brained and can do it much better than me.  Overall, I enjoy the codex, but I think it will struggle against the tippy-toppest tier, but I also think Space Marines may be playing a different game than everyone right about now.  I also think a clever application of our tools can make the game close, but it will probably be uphill the whole way.

 

Closing, thank the Emperor...:

 

My final thoughts are that Valorous Heart Castle seems really tanky, and Sacred Rose horde seems like it can do some damage through sheer volume and makes use of some of the models that just went out of flavor (SBs and HBs) while playing the MD game REALLY well.  I also didn’t touch on Mortifiers, since they are <ORDER> agnostic.  I think Mortifiers are going to play well with just about every flavor of Sororitas, but I think they’re going to be scary with Bloody Rose and Zephyrim in general.  They’re going to make a wall of terror that your opponents can’t really ignore, their footprint is going to allow a lot of other units to slide under the radar for a time, and they won’t occupy many resources since many of the synergies and buffs don’t extend to them… allowing you to conserve those tricks for the units that can make the best of those resources.  Mostly everything else mentioned shied away from generalities, since I respect the community well enough to do the mental gymnastics over the values of transports and individual units… but sometimes the overlapping buffs, synergies, and how the convictions play within those boundaries can get a bit daunting.  I really hope I provided something of value and didn’t bore my readers to death.

 

Best of luck to you all, and keep the conversation going.  Let’s see what we can make out of this mess of a codex… good or bad, it is what we have for 8th edition.

[Arbiter7]

Thanks for this - I've been trying to decide for an order for ages - mostly in terms of paint schemes and I'm torn between vanilla and Ebon Chalice... This did not help me decide either way though :D. 

 

Facebook polls show vast majority of people going vanilla, followed by bloody rose and valiant heart. Ebon Chalice and Sacred rose bottom two of main orders.

[Slasher956]

let me guess one of the reasons for going vanilla is the floating pulpit?

[Lemondish]

let me guess one of the reasons for going vanilla is the floating pulpit?

That's gotta be key - it's one of the reasons why I'll be doing a slightly custom paint scheme so I can run OooML if I choose.

[Purifying Tempest]

Junith is an interesting model to tackle.  She's beautiful, and as with Celestine in the beta-dex, giving her an Order was a pretty big mistake.  I guess she is a Guilliman-lite, and access to rerolls is not a terrible thing at all, right?  She'll definitely add some punch to things with the range early on to threaten the opponent's table (thinking Exorcists and Retributors again).  Overall, she's a really good model with a really good value (110 for rerolling 1s to wound and a +1 Shield of Faith that can get you back to the 4+ invul on the infantry), I think she'll pop up a fair bit.  I don't think she's going to change OML up drastically, she may even force them into beta-dex or some kind of VH variant play where you have a large swath of the army hiding in her aura.

[General Strike]

So from your write up, someone who wants to maximize miracle dice should run Sacred Rose? I'm an aggressive player, I think the extra over watch would help me too, given that I often find myself within charge Range purely by how hot headed I am in the game.

[Lemondish]

Junith is an interesting model to tackle. She's beautiful, and as with Celestine in the beta-dex, giving her an Order was a pretty big mistake. I guess she is a Guilliman-lite, and access to rerolls is not a terrible thing at all, right? She'll definitely add some punch to things with the range early on to threaten the opponent's table (thinking Exorcists and Retributors again). Overall, she's a really good model with a really good value (110 for rerolling 1s to wound and a +1 Shield of Faith that can get you back to the 4+ invul on the infantry), I think she'll pop up a fair bit. I don't think she's going to change OML up drastically, she may even force them into beta-dex or some kind of VH variant play where you have a large swath of the army hiding in her aura.

She does certainly act as a speedy Canoness bordering on the oft requested jump pack concept, so that seems to be a good opportunity to use her in that role.

[tvih]

let me guess one of the reasons for going vanilla is the floating pulpit?

 

It's such a bummer they made her order-dependant. Such a great model that I want it, but I can't really justify getting it just to have it if I'm not going to use it, so it's looking more and more like I'll be going OooML for my plastics (metals will remain Argent). Painting a test figure later today. Black & Red have been my primary colors in many things for over two decades (and red being my single favorite color as a child even long before that, while black is now), but my vanilla aversion is fighting that in this case.

 

There'd of course always be the custom Order thing but doing that and then using an Order-specific special character just feels like a lame cop-out. I like making things difficult for myself...

Edited December 2, 2019 by tvih

[Slasher956]

yeah... I think they could have made the pulpit a priory canoness with the 1 per army rule (so like the Avatar in the craftworld 'dex).... 

[Purifying Tempest]

So from your write up, someone who wants to maximize miracle dice should run Sacred Rose? I'm an aggressive player, I think the extra over watch would help me too, given that I often find myself within charge Range purely by how hot headed I am in the game.

 

That sounds more Bloody Rose, honestly.  Fitting all the way down to the lore.  There's not much that the orders really do for MD, and really... if you're concerned with generation, the only 2 orders that will help you are Sacred Rose and Our Martyred Lady.

 

Sacred Rose gives you 5+ chance on using one to gain a MD, so you are encouraged to spend them.

 

Our Martyred Lady gives you one when a unit with that conviction is wiped out... which encourages list building in a way that offers up many units to be "wiped out" while still playing into the strength of extra MD and +1 to hit when the unit has suffered a casualty.

 

Fortunately, there are other ways to generate MD.  I don't think they wanted Order Convictions to be overly rewarding or punishing towards the MD mechanic, and that's a good thing, since it makes more orders playable.

 

WLT has:

Beacon of Faith (generic, and probably going to be a common WLT)

Terrible Knowledge (Ebon Chalice only, and probably best used with Heroine in the Making)

 

Interestingly, you can combine both... have your army warlord with Beacon of Faith, and then use the stratagem to pass Terrible Knowledge to another character to gain back the CP, +1 or 2 if you're lucky... and your first MD is a 6.

 

Relics are scant on MD, as none of them offer additional MD.  But it is worth pointing out that Litanies of Faith is probably going to be an auto-include in many armies.  It is the only way presented to reroll a MD result.

 

Stratagems bring a few more ways to shift around MD.  Specifically Vessel of the Emperor's Will, but I doubt you'll see a lot of 1 CP for 1 MD exchanging, I just don't think that is an efficient exchange.  Test of Faith, however, will likely be played whenever possible, since it is 1 CP for 2 to 4 MD.  Triggering Test of Faith however is the pain, and I think you'll see a few lists featuring Null Rods or Braziers of Holy Flame to be able to shift into psychic hate.  That will open up a lot of opportunities to use Test of Faith, as Aegis of the Emperor + Brazier of Eternal Flame is the same as auto-rolling a 5 on one of your dice for the psychic test to Deny.

 

Units bring the Triumph of Saint Katherine and the Battle Sanctum.  Triumph is a 18W character that is relatively flimsy with that 3T, but can take a bit of punishment at -1 to be hit and 4+ invulnerable.  It'll net you a MD every turn it stays alive (so if you go first, it'll net you at least 2 MD before your opponent can obliterate it).  The Battle Sanctum only rewards you at the start of each battle round (so long as something with the AdMin tag is within 6" of it).  It rewards half as often, but cannot be removed, the only way to shut it off is to get rid of all AdMin units (vehicles included, and everything in the codex is AdMin I believe).  This may work well with the Valorous Heart entrenchment since it allows you to physically place it and looks like it will provide at least some measure of cover for them... to get to that 2+ for the infantry.  Place it nearby another form of cover to maximize the cover area provided by the terrain+Sanctum to squeeze a good portion of the army into that cover + aura range.

 

I think all of the options are good, and I like how you can build to your desired MD generation.  Sacred Rose still wants lots of MD to be generated, even though their conviction somewhat gives them more, OML may be able to play with less MD support (or enjoy more MD and get more out of their Simulacrum Imperialis models)... at the expense of, you know, losing units that were probably contributing to the game.  I doubt your opponent is going to be classy and kill your 5-girl troop squads first when playing against OML to make sure you get the desired number of MD.  They're probably going to focus down your troublesome units, first... so I think having meltaguns on those troops may be a good investment...

[Lemondish]

They're probably going to focus down your troublesome units, first... so I think having meltaguns on those troops may be a good investment...

So basically work towards making every unit troublesome in some way.

 

 

I like that.

[CrusherJoe]

 

<whack!>

 

Overall, I enjoy the codex, but I think it will struggle against the tippy-toppest tier, but I also think Space Marines may be playing a different game than everyone right about now.  I also think a clever application of our tools can make the game close, but it will probably be uphill the whole way.

 

<whack the rest!>

 

Excellent review! I know what a chore distilling a new codex down into one coherent article is!

 

I quoted what you said because I feel like it points a point on something that has been troubling me for a few months now: Space Marines. Codex marines and the suppositories supplements have altered the power curve for the entire game system. Supplement armies are now in like places 1, 2 and 3....and there's a BIG drop off from 3 to 4. And it's about to get worse -- a LOT worse! -- when PA3 drops. It's basically Codex Supplement: Team Edward. And they're about to catapult to the top of the meta (and I wish that was an exaggeration...).

 

That's not healthy for the game...like...at all. I run a monthly event at the FLGS and the last one looked like a Horus Heresy/30K event, not 40K. They really are playing a different game right now. I've been waiting for Codex: Adepta Sororitas since Codex: Witch Hunters (well, okay, I started playing in 4th Edition) so I knew I was going to be buying new plastics regardless of how the codex turned out. The issue I have is that before September, we would have opened this codex up and there would have been dancing in the streets. Now, in the post-marine-codex world, it's...good. It's not great. The biggest positive I can see out of this is that it will cut down on the bandwagon action (I have been saying for months I think you should need to show off your 10+ pounds of metal girls and your physical copy of Codex: Witch Hunters to be allowed to get the Army Set...but I digress  ).

 

We have our work cut out for us moving forward. I'm not saying the codex is bad -- it really isn't. I can't wait to bamboozle the crap out of people with Miracle dice. It's a unique mechanic and I'm waaaaaaay more happy with it than the betadex version of AoF (which was terrible, beyond terrible: it was insulting).

 

HAVING SAID ALL THAT (lol) let's talk Order Convictions.

 

I waffle back and forth between Martyred Lady, Ebon Chalice and Valorous Heart. I'm not crazy about mechanics that "reward" losing units -- every Sister is precious and she should live a long life!  But that's not going to happen, so maybe I should look at them like Guardsmen -- as a Guard general I spend their lives like water (and one of the lists I'm going to playtest has a Guard Spearhead allied in with 2 Basilisks and a Wyvern).

 

I also think Bloody Rose is a trap. Why? T3 S3 W1 Sv3+ models have NO BUSINESS trying to get in combat with anything from Codex: Space Marines: Veteran Intercessors in the Assault Doctrine will soak our pitiful attempts at combat from basic Battle Sister units and then murder them to the girl swinging back (we won't even discuss Death Company is going to be like in PA3 *shudders*). So that leaves gunning them down. The holy trinity is bolter, flamer and melta -- note the chainsword isn't in there.   Ebon Chalice makes HF Rets a viable THREAT (Cleansing Flames + Storm of Retribution == Happiness)...but I think, maybe, just maybe, Valorous Heart may be the way to go. Everything we can do to keep Sisters alive, longer, is better. Just straight-up ignoring AP-1 and -2 is golden. Remember: The best save is the one you don't have to take. But if you have to take one, a 3+ is better than a 4+ or higher.

 

Anyway...I'm also super interested to what others are thinking! This is a great topic.

Edited December 4, 2019 by CrusherJoe

[Lemondish]

 

 

<whack!>

 

Overall, I enjoy the codex, but I think it will struggle against the tippy-toppest tier, but I also think Space Marines may be playing a different game than everyone right about now.  I also think a clever application of our tools can make the game close, but it will probably be uphill the whole way.

 

<whack the rest!>

 

Excellent review! I know what a chore distilling a new codex down into one coherent article is!

 

I quoted what you said because I feel like it points a point on something that has been troubling me for a few months now: Space Marines. Codex marines and the suppositories supplements have altered the power curve for the entire game system. Supplement armies are now in like places 1, 2 and 3....and there's a BIG drop off from 3 to 4. And it's about to get worse -- a LOTThat's not healthy for the game...like...at all. I run a monthly event at the FLGS and the last one looked like a Horus Heresy/30K event, not 40K. They really are playing a different game right now. I've been waiting for Codex: Adepta Sororitas since Codex: Witch Hunters (well, okay, I started playing in 4th Edition) so I knew I was going to be buying new plastics regardless of how the codex turned out. The issue I have is that before September, we would have opened this codex up and there would have been dancing in the streets. 

 

 

I think all Sisters fans know the sting of 8th edition nerfs and how they can quickly turn a powerful unit into a shelf ornament. After all, look at what happened to Celestine. Once an aggressive turn 1 melee threat that was resilient and capable of enough early pressure to need an answer to while providing massive durability to all units of the army has been gutted into a shadow of her former self costing three times that of a Canoness but hardly being realistically worth one. 

 

I have no concerns with marines as they are today. They will get theirs, just as they did back in the early days of 8th with the Rowboat Gorillaman and Stormraven friends. Sure, they certainly weren't as dominant then as they are today, but if there's one thing that we know...gw giveth, and gw taketh away. 

 

All I hope for is a future where they continue to balance Sisters more frequently so that we might actually see the old early 8th edition Celestine back. 

[Purifying Tempest]

Few musings and combinations I am looking at:

 

1) Retributors with 1 Combi-melta, 4 Heavy Flamers, 2 Armorium Cherubs, Simulacrum if necessary, and extra bodies for durability.  I'm thinking of running this in Valorous Heart without a Rhino, any other Order with a Rhino (too costly to leave in the open, and it has to close).

 

Perks:

• Everything here worth firing is matched at 12", which seems like an oddity with the discrepancy between melta and flamer weapons.  Additionally, boltguns get 2x shots for most applications of this squad
• Enables Holy Trinity easily
• Storm of Retribution can make this squad able to threaten just about anything with decent damage, though Holy Trinity makes most heavy flamers wound on 2s vs Infantry - never use the 2CP to re-roll the 1s...
• Ebon Chalice makes this silly, but will be vulnerable if left in the open

Cons:

• Super pricey - 196 with a full build of 10 Rets + 2 Cherubs + 1 Simulacrum
• 12" is still pretty close, maybe Argent Shroud can play here, too?
• Easy to drop too much support on - Canoness makes it better, so does an Imagifier and Hospitaller, a Rhino is nice too...

 

2) Dominions with Storm bolters

 

Perks:

• Blessed Bolts is great in very specific circumstances - Primaris (just in time!) and Terminator style units.
• Dirt cheap - 58 points for 5 with 4 Storm bolters
• Should be able to rapid fire these things on turn 1, they'll have to be ahead of your lines, but I think it is a win if the opponent targets them down early (cheap disposable, especially for some one Our Martyred Lady minded)

Cons:

• Dominions got the hammer dropped on them, and so did storm bolters (when removed from the Superiors, basically nerfing min BSS + 3 SB or 5 SB Dominion tricks)
• The use case for them using Blessed Bolts is pretty narrow, sure it can do some damage against non-optimal targets, but I think with the variety of stratagems in the codex... 1 CP for sub-optimal Blessed Bolts may be a long-term mistake
• They can get away from all the support buffs easily, but that's nothing new

 

3) Valorous Heart anvil. I'm sure everyone knows about it, Valorous Heart + Imagifier for ignoring -1 and -2 AP.  But, if you really like taking it to the n-th degree... you can give that Imagifier the Indomitable Belief Warlord Trait along with the Book of Saint Lucius.  9" Auras of ignoring -2 AP and +1 invulnerable to Shield of Faith.  Either cram more in there, or allow a little freer placement.  Finally, add Celestine and a Hospitaller for maximum frustration.  Fear snipers, though.

 

Edit: Forgot to mention that you want to get cozy with Celestians in this build, too, especially if snipers are a thing you expect.

 

Perks:

• Ignoring -2 AP, 4+ Invulnerable.  For those who are counting, that means even at -3 or worse AP, the most they're getting is -1.  Stick it in cover and get a 2+/4++/6+++, and a Hospitaller to help pick up the few gals that goes down.
• Good use for 4's on the Miracle dice, in case a few large AP shots come in, especially with Simulacrums lurking around.  One of the few times I think investing MD in defense is useful, especially those low ones.
• Once the Battle Sanctum drops and becomes a thing... you get prime placement of your very own cover for 50 points.  More to follow, but at the very least it will provide cover to INFANTRY, which this list will likely favor.  Being able to place a spot of cover is probably going to be bigger than one could imagine at pre-defined tables at tournaments that usually run scant.

Cons:

• Snipers.  If you cannot protect the Imagifier, your shields will come down quick.
• Ignores cover rules.  If you're relying on cover to get that 2+, keep those pesky rules in mind (Iron Warriors, Noise Marines, etc.)
• Being bottled up.  Your auras are movable, but things can get a bit clumsy, especially if working within the confines of Celestine's aura.  You'll want to keep her (Celestine) back, as well, until your sure you're not in danger of high ROF -3 AP weapons like Plasma guns.
• Oh, Plasma Guns should get a special shout out.  If this list does exceedingly well, expect to see more plasma guns and eliminators hitting the table.

4) The lonely melta.  I'm going to try to make it a point to keep a combi-melta or meltagun (exclusive, not both) on most of my BSS.  People tend to not go for BSS early on with Retributors and Exorcists lurking.  Once your power hitters have been eliminated, having a stray melta slamming down one of those late game MD for the "clutch" play... I think it would be a good thing to have them lurking and threatening the late game.  They usually are around about the same phase of the game that things like characters become exposed...

 

Perks:

• Gives a threat with good-faced MD in your pool, and probably only gets better as the game drags on.
• A 5 usually is enough to pop a character that failed his invulnerable.
• Relatively low threat units that should be around later on unless you're getting absolutely rolled.
• Can give a combi-flamer in addition to enable Holy Trinity - but I would only do this in larger squads.

Cons:

• No way about it, it is a tax.  If you're taking BSS to farm CP, this is probably a trap.
• Combi-flamer + Melta = 22 points, each time you do it.  Be careful.
• A set-up with later game in mind, so don't expect immediate returns on those point investments.

 

5) Holy Trinity Seraphim.   I've had a thought where Deadly Descent could possibly trigger Holy Trinity with a Seraphim with Inferno Pistols + Hand Flamers.  The cost would be a little lower, but the damage would probably be lower overall, too.  But alas, I don't think the timing works since Holy Trinity specifies "Use this stratagem during your shooting phase" - which I do not think the Seraphim using Deadly Descent enable (Deadly Descent specifies that they can shoot as if it was your shooting phase).  Again, not a tournament player, but I think Holy Trinity won't be faked out by Deadly Descent.  Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Just a few thoughts there of stuff I like - if we all like it, I'll add it up to the original post for a bit more visibility.

Edited December 7, 2019 by Purifying Tempest

[Lemondish]

5) Holy Trinity Seraphim. I've had a thought where Deadly Descent could possibly trigger Holy Trinity with a Seraphim with Inferno Pistols + Hand Flamers. The cost would be a little lower, but the damage would probably be lower overall, too. But alas, I don't think the timing works since Holy Trinity specifies "Use this stratagem during your shooting phase" - which I do not think the Seraphim using Deadly Descent enable (Deadly Descent specifies that they can shoot as if it was your shooting phase). Again, not a tournament player, but I think Holy Trinity won't be faked out by Deadly Descent. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

Just a few thoughts there of stuff I like - if we all like it, I'll add it up to the original post for a bit more visibility.

Holy Trinity unfortunately can only be triggered in the shooting phase, so no way to link the two as you said, though I had been hoping to try the same thing. Edited December 8, 2019 by Lemondish

[Boshea]

Valorous Heart castle is what I'm looking at building around. Its close to how the army played before, and the models I'm phasing out to plastic were painted that order already. Their Relic is pretty interesting with the introduction of the Blessed Blade. Now that Blade of Admonition replaces this instead of a power sword its less of an auto take with any Canoness planning to get in melee. That -1T can be +1 to wound in a lot of fights. Two things I'm really waiting to see with the army is what the Battle Sanctum is going to look like, and how hard I want to be pushing for miracle dice. I have roughly 300 points I'm still trying to nail down for a 2K list, and Battle Sanctum+Triumph is a possibility. 

[Purifying Tempest]

I got to play the VH Castle the other day, and it was pretty strong, definitely a lot sturdier than the 3T would imply.  I didn't go with a bunch of the weapon relics, instead I went with the Brazier of Eternal Flame and the Book of St. Lucius, though I totally forgot to also bring the Litanies of Faith as well.  I didn't have a bunch of characters getting up the field, since a good portion of them (Celestine, Canoness with Rod of Office, Hospitaller, and Imagifier) were reserved for auras.  I think a Canoness counter-charged once, but it was against like 1 stray jump model.  I did get 3 MD/round at the start of each round, and that was pretty nice since it was fairly easy to get one for Vengeance and I could a couple more throughout the game for Valor.  I think the 180 points for the Triumph is going to make things fairly tight on points, since its primary function is to give an additional MD/turn.  I would just throw 50 at the Sanctum and keep some back-line elements near it for the 1/round+cover saves.

 

I also really enjoyed having Simulacrums in squads, especially the larger, more survivable squads with meltaguns.  MD to hit in Overwatch + damage roll + Simulacrum MD for damage (if necessary) is really dangerous to characters, and you may be able to pop a charger off with it if they subsequently fail their invulnerable.  Also dangerous to vehicles that like the charge to "soak overwatch".  I do need to get better on using things like Moment of Grace, though, because there was 1 or 2 times where I botched a melta wound roll and spent a CP to re-roll instead of just tossing some of my low-faced MD to fix the problem (keep in mind, though, 1s still automatically fail, so... no saving those pesky 1 pips).

[BaronBanana]

Have you thought about 4x HFlamer, Combi Melta Ret squad in an immolator? I was considering running a battalion and a speahead with three of them there, and three Exorcist in the batt

[Raven1]

Have you thought about 4x HFlamer, Combi Melta Ret squad in an immolator? I was considering running a battalion and a speahead with three of them there, and three Exorcist in the batt

Given the meta and the new codex it's like the wild west. Could it work...absolutely...will it be worth it, I dont know. I do know that 4D6 12" heavy flamer hits could ruin a flyers day. Or anyone day.

 

Personally, I'm initially investing in a Valourus Heart castle. I think that will have the most mileavs for pure sisters armies.