Triumph of St Katherine and Salamander Allies

[L30n1d4s]

I saw this in another thread and thought it was relevant here... does anyone see themselves allying in a Salamander Patrol detachment with:

 

1 - Primaris Librarian (Upgraded to a Chief Libraian), brings Salamander Relic to improve its casting by +1, uses Fire Shield, Drakeskin, and Burning Fists powers.

 

2 - 10 Infiltrators with Helix Adept

 

 

So, these units adds the ability to deny enemy Deepstrikers, gives you some solid anti-Psyker options, and, most importantly, gives you a unit to shield the Triumph of St Katherine.

 

Specifically, the Librarian can reliably cast Fire Shield and Drakeskin on the Infiltrators, who can also pop Smoke Grenades once per game. Combine this with Cover and you have 20 x T5 2+ save wounds with a -2 to Hit in shooting... pretty difficult to chew through for almost any opponent.

 

Now, combined with the Self Sacrifice Stratagem and you can make the Triumph of St Katherine immune to enemy shooting (and protected from Deep Strike charges, thanks to 12" no DS bubble) until they have killed all 10 of these buffed up Infiltrators.

 

On average, a Riptide with Heavy Burst Cannon and Nova Charge and Max MLs would only kill about three Infiltrators in a full round of shooting, so this would be a really tough "shield unit" to keep the Triumph of St Katherine trucking all game long.

[Slasher956]

In a word.... no

 

the triumph does nothing for the marines and with its 6" buff range having that many marines around means less sisters who would benefit getting in range... plus at 18 wounds its not protected by the character targeting rule... so you have to hide it out of LoS (less space for the girls to get within 6"....) and still be suseptible to non los attacks...

[L30n1d4s]

Self Sacrifice does not count on the character special rule, so it would effectively shield the Triumph of St Katherine from enemy shooting (even Sniper shooting).

 

This also allows Sister melee units to advance up alongside the Triumph at foot slogging pace, since the Salamanders are also advancing on foot.

[tvih]

Marines don't really pair well with much of anything anymore, especially considering the Supplements. They have tools for just about everything on their own, while taking anything else just makes them lose all doctrine-related stuff.

 

On a more general note of allies as far as Sisters go with the above being the case, I reckon currently the Imperial Guard would make most sense (in fact across three edition I've always had IG to accompany my Sisters whenever I've had Sisters on the table). The Guard wouldn't lose anything for it, and Sisters only lose Sacred Rites.

[Lemondish]

Marines don't really pair well with much of anything anymore, especially considering the Supplements. They have tools for just about everything on their own, while taking anything else just makes them lose all doctrine-related stuff.

 

On a more general note of allies as far as Sisters go with the above being the case, I reckon currently the Imperial Guard would make most sense (in fact across three edition I've always had IG to accompany my Sisters whenever I've had Sisters on the table). The Guard wouldn't lose anything for it, and Sisters only lose Sacred Rites.

I think you're all missing the point...

 

It's not about improving Marines by bringing Sisters, it's about improving Sisters by specifically bringing Salamanders.

 

And I think the idea has merit if you really want to protect that Triumph. I'm actually not convinced its worth it. I honestly don't think the Triumph ranks that highly at an immediate threat that you'll focus on taking it down above all else.

[tvih]

I know it's about that although I worded my previously reply poorly, but what I meant was also that improvements marines bring to parent list aren't as great paired as when they are solo since they lose out on some nice rules when just stick 'em in with something else now.

 

Leaving the doctrine stuff aside, the question is whether it is worth going through all that trouble just to protect the Triumph. Are the lost bonuses - for the Sisters themselves - worth protecting the bonuses offered by the Triumph, at least to that degree? Will the enemy even attack it? You have to use Self Sacrifice strat at the start of the opponent's turn, so the opponent might just be laughing at you as you pre-emptively waste CP while he just does something entirely different instead.

Edited December 2, 2019 by tvih

[taikishi]

Not really sure the Self Sac strat is worth using to protect any of our characters, really. That said, I won't ever say no to a smash captain. I'm in the camp that doesn't think our Sacred Rites are really worth what we give up by not bringing allies, whether that's guard, a Knight, Ad Mech or Marines.

[Mekhitar]

I hadn’t thought of that combo - it’s interesting and worth thinking about, though as I don’t play SM I won’t pursue it myself.

[tvih]

Not really sure the Self Sac strat is worth using to protect any of our characters, really. That said, I won't ever say no to a smash captain. I'm in the camp that doesn't think our Sacred Rites are really worth what we give up by not bringing allies, whether that's guard, a Knight, Ad Mech or Marines.

If it's a proper detachment and not just a bodyguard unit, then the Rites aren't a big loss by comparison. Sisters certainly lose out on less than marines by allying up - which makes sense, given our limited number of unit types available. I'll most likely try the Sisters + IG combo again in the near future.

[CaptainMarsh]

In a word.... no

 

the triumph does nothing for the marines and with its 6" buff range having that many marines around means less sisters who would benefit getting in range... plus at 18 wounds its not protected by the character targeting rule... so you have to hide it out of LoS (less space for the girls to get within 6"....) and still be suseptible to non los attacks...

Self-Sacrifice says you have to destroy the unit who is sacrificing themselves before the protected unit can be targeted. It doesn't matter whether the protected unit is a character with 18 wounds, 100 wounds, 11 wounds, or 455 wounds. 

 

It is still of limited use but yeah, it could work.