dusara217 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 In the Chaos Space Marine Codex, it states that the <Legion> keyword can be replaced by the 'Fallen' keyword. However, everywhere I've read about people making Fallen Armies, they act as if this isn't a rule. Does this not then mean that I can run vanilla Chaos Space Marines or Chaos Sorceror's in a Detachment and replace their <Legion> keyword with Fallen? If I did so, would they then benefit from Cypher's re-rolling 1's aura? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 I think you've misread it, unless they changed it in the 2nd codex which I don't have. The Vigilus Ablaze specialist detachment for fallen is pretty explicit about letting you use rhinos and sorcerers in a fallen detachment despite that not normally being able to. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5439467 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annatar Giftbringer Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 You might wanna read p.118 again, specifically rhe <Legion> bit. You cannot choose Death Guard, Thousand sons or Fallen as your keyword. Only way to add units other than Cypher or Fallen to a Fallen detachment is through a special Vigilus ablaze detachment. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5439873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) Chaos Space Marines codex says: The Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Fallen deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. As a result, you cannot choose one of these keywords when determining which Legion a unit in this codex is from. Fallen Detachment: Use this Stratagem when choosing your army. You can include Sorcerers and Chaos Rhinos in a Vanguard Detachment that includes only FALLEN units. If you do so, they replace their <MARK OF CHAOS>, <HERETIC ASTARTES> and <LEGION> keywords with the <FALLEN> keywords. FALLEN Sorcerers also replace their Death to the False Emperor ability with the Fallen Angels ability from the Fallen datasheet. Pick a FALLEN Detachment from your army to be a Fallen Angels Specialist Detachment. FALLEN units in that Detachment gain the FALLEN ANGELS keyword, but they lose the IMPERIUM Faction keyword (if they have it). So long story short, you can have Cypher, sorcs, rhino and Fallen. And the sorcs can't cast spells on the fallen, since they lack the <heretic astartes> keywords. I've always thought Cypher looked cool, the lore/fluff is cool, but never understood the point of them on the table top. Edited December 3, 2019 by Putrid Choir Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5439937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Chaos Space Marines codex says: The Death Guard, Thousand Sons and Fallen deviate significantly in terms of organisation and fighting styles. As a result, you cannot choose one of these keywords when determining which Legion a unit in this codex is from. Fallen Detachment: Use this Stratagem when choosing your army. You can include Sorcerers and Chaos Rhinos in a Vanguard Detachment that includes only FALLEN units. If you do so, they replace their <MARK OF CHAOS>, <HERETIC ASTARTES> and <LEGION> keywords with the <FALLEN> keywords. FALLEN Sorcerers also replace their Death to the False Emperor ability with the Fallen Angels ability from the Fallen datasheet. Pick a FALLEN Detachment from your army to be a Fallen Angels Specialist Detachment. FALLEN units in that Detachment gain the FALLEN ANGELS keyword, but they lose the IMPERIUM Faction keyword (if they have it). So long story short, you can have Cypher, sorcs, rhino and Fallen. And the sorcs can't cast spells on the fallen, since they lack the <heretic astartes> keywords. I've always thought Cypher looked cool, the lore/fluff is cool, but never understood the point of them on the table top. So- you can't have any fallen dreads or tanks ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5440567 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Father Ferrum Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 Correct. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5440578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzerallan Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 If you want a pure Fallen army - you'll have to counts-as. Black Legion or Alpha Legion would make sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5440611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Special Officer Doofy Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 If you want a pure Fallen army - you'll have to counts-as. Black Legion or Alpha Legion would make sense. Or just make some Dark Angels look more chaos like and just use their codex. Won't have Cypher but I would think that would give you the most units to play with and still retain the fallen look. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5440631 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doom Herald Posted December 4, 2019 Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) If you want a pure Fallen army - you'll have to counts-as. Black Legion or Alpha Legion would make sense. Or just make some Dark Angels look more chaos like and just use their codex. Won't have Cypher but I would think that would give you the most units to play with and still retain the fallen look.Funny enough, you can take a Fallen detachment (not the specialist detachment though) with a Dark Angels detachment, since they both have IMPERIUM. Edited December 4, 2019 by Doom Herald Special Officer Doofy and dusara217 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5440779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
dusara217 Posted December 4, 2019 Author Share Posted December 4, 2019 I appreciate the replies. I definitely misread that page, as you guys said. I might just have to run a Fallen detachment as allies for another faction, but at least I can take some transports for some Fallen squads if I decide to run them solo. Special Officer Doofy 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360277-fallen-armies-and-the-keyword/#findComment-5441258 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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