Blood of Baal new tactica!

[The Unseen]

So, am I mistaken, or does Refusal to Die grant a DC unit a 5+++ IN ADDITION to the black rage 6+++?

It doesn't say anything about replacing or modifying their existing fnp, just that they gain a 5+++ for a phase and can only be used once per turn.

[Panzer]

So, am I mistaken, or does Refusal to Die grant a DC unit a 5+++ IN ADDITION to the black rage 6+++?

It doesn't say anything about replacing or modifying their existing fnp, just that they gain a 5+++ for a phase and can only be used once per turn.

 

Doesn't matter, you can use only one of such rules per damage taken.

[The Unseen]

Where's that rule Panzer?

Cause I've never seen it.

Most other rules specifically state they don't stack or how they interact

Ex black rage and the SoS or Foresight

[Panzer]

Where's that rule Panzer?

Cause I've never seen it.

Most other rules specifically state they don't stack or how they interact

Ex black rage and the SoS or Foresight

 

It's been in the FAQ since forever:

 

 

Page 181 – Ignoring Wounds

Add the following as a boxout on this page:

‘Ignoring Wounds

Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore

the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g.

Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious

Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you

can only use one of those abilities each time the model

loses a wound.’

[The Unseen]

Ahh, thank you

Must've missed it originally and it's never come up before now for me.

[Indefragable]

I wish GW was more consistent with things. They say you can only ever have 1x save throw, 1x type of FNP, on,y get 1CP back max etc...

 

 

...yet you can stack -1 To Hit on Eldar stuff to infinity.

[Panzer]

I wish GW was more consistent with things. They say you can only ever have 1x save throw, 1x type of FNP, on,y get 1CP back max etc...

 

 

...yet you can stack -1 To Hit on Eldar stuff to infinity.

 

That's because if you couldn't stack negative to hit modifier you could just move&shoot with heavy weapons on a target that already has a modifier like flyer or such without suffering from the heavy weapon modifier which would be dumb. GW kinda wrote themselves into a corner there. Easiest solution would probably to Errata the Eldars stuff to exclude flyers, however that wouldn't check your box of consistency either.

[Indefragable]

 

I wish GW was more consistent with things. They say you can only ever have 1x save throw, 1x type of FNP, on,y get 1CP back max etc...

 

 

...yet you can stack -1 To Hit on Eldar stuff to infinity.

 

That's because if you couldn't stack negative to hit modifier you could just move&shoot with heavy weapons on a target that already has a modifier like flyer or such without suffering from the heavy weapon modifier which would be dumb. GW kinda wrote themselves into a corner there. Easiest solution would probably to Errata the Eldars stuff to exclude flyers, however that wouldn't check your box of consistency either.

 

I'm fine with a happy medium. Negative modifiers are capped at 2 (or 3 for Flyers) or something, and if you have multiple ways of getting a FNP, you can add 1 to the dice rolled for it up to a max of 3+, or you can only have a FNP from one external source and one internal source (aka units like DC or DG or Ven dreads that intrinsically have a FNP can get a second one, but not a third, fourth, etc...) Or you can get up to 3CP per Turn (instead of 1) or you can get up to the # of CP you used in a Turn back, but never go over the starting amount (so you're always rolling for neutral, never to go positive, so to speak).

 

I'm not saying any of what I wrote is the best idea, but a way of having a bit both sides.

[Djangomatic82]

 

 

I wish GW was more consistent with things. They say you can only ever have 1x save throw, 1x type of FNP, on,y get 1CP back max etc...

 

 

...yet you can stack -1 To Hit on Eldar stuff to infinity.

 

That's because if you couldn't stack negative to hit modifier you could just move&shoot with heavy weapons on a target that already has a modifier like flyer or such without suffering from the heavy weapon modifier which would be dumb. GW kinda wrote themselves into a corner there. Easiest solution would probably to Errata the Eldars stuff to exclude flyers, however that wouldn't check your box of consistency either.

 

I'm fine with a happy medium. Negative modifiers are capped at 2 (or 3 for Flyers) or something, and if you have multiple ways of getting a FNP, you can add 1 to the dice rolled for it up to a max of 3+, or you can only have a FNP from one external source and one internal source (aka units like DC or DG or Ven dreads that intrinsically have a FNP can get a second one, but not a third, fourth, etc...) Or you can get up to 3CP per Turn (instead of 1) or you can get up to the # of CP you used in a Turn back, but never go over the starting amount (so you're always rolling for neutral, never to go positive, so to speak).

 

I'm not saying any of what I wrote is the best idea, but a way of having a bit both sides.

 

I've been thinking that a system like DnD (maybe from an old edition now), where likes dont stack (Where a +1 to X would not stack with another +1, but a +1 and +2 would stack to +3 to X) would be cool and be an opportunity for some interesting ability design. My "wouldnt it be cool" thinking was if Unleashed rage was +1, but the Sanguinor's ability was +2, but this was before Shock Assault and Savage Echoes.

Edited January 5, 2020 by Djangomatic82

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Just to get this back on topic: has anyone else played some games with the Blood of Baal rules that they would like to share?

[Karhedron]

Just to get this back on topic: has anyone else played some games with the Blood of Baal rules that they would like to share?

Just one game so far. I hadn't had time to really revamp my list to take advantage of the changes but even so, I noticed the increase in power simply from changes like receiving Doctrines. BoB is a straight up boost and the increase to viability for things like Sanguinary Guard is just gravy.

[t-dog1996]

Just to get this back on topic: has anyone else played some games with the Blood of Baal rules that they would like to share?

 

I've played a few games and found that our HQ choices are extremely powerful now. The extreme charge buffs we now have make our army unbelievably fast and hard to counter.

 

I've also found a very powerful Flesh Tearers Captain combo that I'd like to share. I'm probably not the first person to spot this but I have given it a name: Captain Leatherface

 

Basically you take a Flesh Tearers Captain, give him the Severer of Threads relic chainsword, a jump pack, the Of Wrath and Rage Warlord trait and a storm shield. Throw in DVOS for extra fun. 

 

Basically with this guy you get a bare minimum of 7 attacks, with 6s to hit exploding into more attacks and 6s to wound inflicting mortal wounds in addition to other damage. He's hitting at S5 AP-1, with the hits on 6s being -2 due to The Fury Within. If you chant the Exhortation of Rage at him, you can make those 6s to hit explode into 2 extra attacks each rather than just 1. Also don't forget Red Rampage for another +D3 attacks

 

You can very easily get this guy chucking out more than a dozen attacks in a single round of combat, with plenty of mortal wounds thrown into the mix, and if you really need to you can chuck Honour the Chapter in there for extra pain. This guy is not Slam, but I would argue he is just as useful. Like Slam, he will melt basically any character you send him against up to and including Abaddon (I've tested this and if you're prepared to spend CP then he really can reliably bring down Abaddon).

 

Unlike Slam he won't be taking down Knights or Primarchs, but what he can do that Slam can't is deal with hordes and infantry more generally. The CP investment is substantial for maximum effect but I'd say he'd be worth a place in any Flesh Tearers army.

[Panzer]

The useful thing about the Captain Smash build is not just the damage output but also the ability to charge anything anywhere you want and without suffering from Overwatch and also re-rolling the charge roll. Damage wise there have always been builds close to what a Captain Smash does, especially now that the vanilla Marines got their new stuff. ;) 

[Silverson]

after not playing 40k for five months due to an AoS league, it has now wrapped up and I have been aboe to get back to 40k and played two games in the passed two weeks against a stalker bolter heavy imperial fists army and a deathguard alrounder army.

 

I see some quite well known names on the forum advocating that not getting into our specialist doctrine until turn three Is a positive because it makes even standard units Intercessors a threat. In the very small sample size I have so far that against the imperial fist army that I had so little left by turn three (with good terrain) that I only had one sanguinary ancient and two sanguinary guard capable of getting into combat that it was almost irrelevant.

Against the deathguard player things went a bit better, I was on the back foot off the start due to my death company bouncing off plague marines

[Indefragable]

I think we all need to get more games in to confirm one wya or another, but I don’t think we can wait fo Turn 3 to get into melee; YMMV but personally I find that an overly simplistic and one-size-fits-all approach that an be counter-productive. I would say that you want to be charging in T3+ for sure, but that could mean you’ve dogpiled and punched things out already and are going on to charge #2 or 3 by T3. Where Savage Echoes really stands out is helping wounded units still pull their weight.

 

Of course use your head and apply the timeless maxim of “shoot the stabby ones and stab the shooty ones” wherever possible: against Genestealers or Khorne, try to kite and shoot; against Tau or IF, turn off their guns ASAP.

[Jolemai]

FAQ is out folks with some minor changes...

[SnorriSnorrison]

Considering how many questions there were, that doesn’t seem like an awful lot. At least the rectified the obvious ones. Too bad for the Flesh Tearers though, their chapter trait is definitely worse than Red Thirst. Stacking with the Assault doctrine could’ve been big for them.

[Neuralshock]

Too bad Astorath and lemartes lost a litany. It makes lemartes less appealing over Astorath now in my view.

[Indefragable]

Definitely

 

But the fact that Lemmy still passes out re-rolls to DC for free keeps him appealing if you’re running them.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Too bad Astorath and lemartes lost a litany. It makes lemartes less appealing over Astorath now in my view.

Lemartes is just there to shout Canticles of Hate now. A weaker smash chaplain every other time.

 

Astorath is now stronger, but you have to choose between making him a force multiplier or a battering ram, rather than both.

[Knaru]

 

Too bad Astorath and lemartes lost a litany. It makes lemartes less appealing over Astorath now in my view.

Lemartes is just there to shout Canticles of Hate now. A weaker smash chaplain every other time.

 

Astorath is now stronger, but you have to choose between making him a force multiplier or a battering ram, rather than both.

 

Lemartes also gives full rerolls (not just misses) in the Fight Phase and charge rerolls for Death Company without a Litany, so there is value to be found there, especially if you're rocking Hammers/Fists.

[burningsky25]

Played another game with my mostly Primaris BA Brigade list over the weekend and had a lot of fun!

 

My list:

Brigade

HQ

Captain Smash (sudo warlord with warlord trait and relic)

Phobos Captain (Warlord, Princeps of Deceit, Quake Bolts)

Phobos Lieutenant

 

Troops

Infiltrator Squad

Infiltrator Squad

Infiltrator Squad

Infiltrator Squad

Intercessor Squad with Bolt Rifle and a Power Sword

Intercessor Squad with Bolt Rifle and a Power Sword

 

Elites

Sanguinary Ancient with SoS banner

Sanguinary Guard with axes

Terminator Assault Squad, TH + SS

Fast Attack

Inceptor Squad

Supressor Squad

Supressor Squad

 

Heavy Support

Eliminator Squad with two las-fusil, Srgnt with Instigator Bolt Carbine

Eliminator Squad with two las-fusil, Srgnt with Instigator Bolt Carbine

Devastator Squad, two lascannon, heavy bolter, two extra marines

 

His list:

Air Wing Detatchment - Alaitoc

Crimson Hunter Exarch

Crimson Hunter Exarch

Crimson Hunter Exarch

 

Eldar Spearhead - Ulthwé

Spiritseer

Warlock

Wraithblades with axes/shields x9

Wave Serpent

Wave Serpent

Wave Serpent

 

Dark Eldar Battalion

Archon some re-roll wounds of 1 relic

Archon with Huskblade

Kabalite Warriors

Kabalite Warriors

Kabalite Warriors

Ravager with three disintegrator cannons

Ravager with three disintegrator cannons

Ravager with three disintegrator cannons

 

I had written up some other battle reports with this list back on pg 403 of the BA Today but figured I'd drop this one here.  For some brief context I had played a game against a mixed Chaos Space Marines list and won soundly, played most of a game against a GK list (the GK had lost to this eldar list in a close game earlier) and *probably* would have won that game, and then I got to finish the round robin so to speak and play this Eldar list a weekend later.

 

We played a basic Maelstrom mission, I got to deploy aggressively and took first turn.

 

The game:

T1 I managed to take down a ravager and land a few other wounds cleared all his chaff kabalite warriors, his T1 he killed all my Eliminators and Suppressors, but didn't charge my Primaris blob front and center with his Wraithblades as he needed them to keep guarding from deepstrikes as much as possible.

 

T2 I finished off both ravagers with massed Infiltrator and Inceptor shooting.  I also dropped SG and in opposite ends, killed a fire prism with Smash, and one with the SG while a nearby Infiltrator squad removed an Archon in one turn after some terrible invuln saves on his part.  His turn he charged his wraithblades into the infiltrators and SG, moved three planes and wave serpent to shoot Smash, I popped transhuman physiology and with the help of some amazing 6+++ ended up with 3 wounds left against all that shooting.  My SG popped the -1 to hit against Wraithblades mostly for fun, but actually managed to survive with one member while the Infiltrator squad evaporated.  

 

T3 I fell back with the last SG to hide in a ruin, dropped the Terminators to guard my center Primaris blob.  In shooting an infiltrator squad took off a couple wounds from the last wave serpent near smash, then charged it and managed to take the last 7 wounds off in cc! Amazing stuff from a troop squad without any cc weapons.  Smash charged one plane, it hit with one pulse laser shot, wounded, I failed the 4++ and wound have died but saved one wound with a 6.  In response he popped the -1 to hit against his plane, I landed 3 hits, and rolled 3 1s to wound . . . no damage, when three 2+ would have meant a dead plane  .  Ah well. Win some, you lose some.  His turn he charged the Wraithblades into my Terminators, but the sergeant survived with the help of the nearby SoS.  Interestingly he piled his wraithblades into both my infiltrator squads, which let me hit back.  At first I thought this would be good for me, but he pointed out I only get any bonuses if I charged or was charged - neither happened, he only piled into me.  As such they didn't accomplish much.  His CHE's shot an Intercessor squad off an objective I wanted.

 

T4 Things were looking dicey.  Neither of us had any command points, and he had a squad of 7 Wraithblades with Protect (2+, 3++) that I had little heavy firepower to finish off with, and I couldn't contest his planes almost at all if he stayed out of the charge bubble of captain smash.  I had a small victory point lead but wasn't sure if I would have anything left in a turn or two.  I decided to try leave enough stuff in combat with his wraithblades that he couldn't clear before my next turn, while falling back with the heavy hitters so I could get my charge bonuses again.  I fell back with the terminator seargent, advanced smash closer to the combat along with the infiltrator squad near him, and jumped my last SG and the SG Ancient, along with one Inceptor who fell back out of combat towards his spiritseer, warlock, and archon, hoping to get rid of his buff squad.  I targeted his spiritseer (4W) with their combined shooting and the attacks of the SG and SGA, but at the end of it he survived with one wound! 10 single damage shooting attacks, 7 D3 damage in close combat . . and his 4++ kept him alive.  His turn he cleared out another Intercessor squad with his CHE's and wittled down my devastator squad in the back, while his HQ's punked the SG and SGA that had charged them . . the Spiritseer also cast Protect on the Wraithblades again.  His Wraithblades weren't able to completely wipe the two Infiltrator squads that he was tied up with.  

 

T5 This was my time to shine! I backed out of combat with the two Infiltrator squads, shot them with everything I had and charged with captain smash, one 5man infiltrator, on Terminator Sgnt, Inceptor Sgnt, Phobos Ltnt and Phobos cptn.  They didn't even get to complete all of their attacks before I had killed the 6 wraithblades. Turns out even dispersed and dwindling BA forces past T3 are totally amazing  .  His turn we called it, I was up in points 11-6 and there was little for him to accomplish.

 

The game was close, but a lot of fun! BA with a heavy emphasis on phobos and deepstriking has a tremendous amount of board control and pressure.  With my heavy ranged hitters being infantry as well they don't survive long, and high strength weapons can become sparse, but if you can survive past T3 anything you have becomes much more dangerous.  This is a matchup I don't think I could have won without doctrines and Savage Echoes, there just wouldn't have been enough oomph later on.

[Indefragable]

@burningsky25 : 

how’d the Phobos Capt w/ Quake rounds work?

 

I managed to somehow get one for a steal and though I haven’t used him yet, I’ve kind of fallen in love with the theoryhammer:

 

-30” Assault 1 D:3 gun that can target characters and hits on a re-rollable 2+

-A HQ that can infiltrate to provide buffs to your other infiltration units (looking at you, Eliminators) 

-Provides the same 12” anti-DS bubble as Infiltrators

-is effectively 1+/4++ in cover in case anyone finds a way to shoot at him. 
-Natural candidate for Quake bolts

[burningsky25]

I really like having quake bolts at my disposal, but it also means giving up the good damage profile of his gun. There were times this game I wanted to shoot his HQ's instead, but more than that it's hard to remember to use! I needed to be more intentional with lining up charges with it, even when I applied it to the Wraith blades turn 5 I forgot to use the +1 to hit on more than one squad. It's a really good buff that takes some usage to remember when to apply, and that it's applied, as it's a fairly unique mechanic.

 

BA HQ slot has some stiff competition, and I don't think he's the best, but I was quite surprised with how viable a Phobos centric list can be.

 

Most Phobos units don't scream 'Blood Angels' at first glance with their minimal cc prowess, but that's the beauty of the post-BoB rules - Blood Angels allow otherwise passive squads to be played offensively with legitimate threat. And I can't imagine any BA rules fluffier than that!

[Indefragable]

To me the beauty of the vanguard stuff is how it fits into our mobile play style, even if the mobility is just in deployment. Fake it ‘til you make it I guess. 
 

Unrelated, but his is pretty interesting; Librarian Dreads really are the Knight hunters, eh? That’s damn respectable at 88% :

 

https://www.goonhammer.com/hammer-of-math-smash-captain-returns/