Assault Centurion Vs Crusader Blobs in LRC

[Link2edition]

I have been looking at maybe getting some centurions to load into my landraiders, right now I am using crusaders. I wanted to hear the community's ideas on which are the better pick.

Example of one of my lists is here:http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/360276-bt-raider-rush-2000points/

Assault Centurions (with hurricane bolters)
Pros:
Overkills targets
Powerful attacks
Good armor
Multi-wound
Great target for buffs

Cons:
Overkills targets
Slow after Disembark
Not Troops
No Obsec
Low Model Count
Can't use hurricane bolters with run and charge strat
A lot of points in one package
I'd have to buy, build, paint the models

Crusaders:
Pros:
High Model Count, Troops, Obsec (can steal objectives without killing everything off them)
Doesn't care about multi damage weapons
I already have loads of them
Can lock a whole lot of units in combat with a single charge
More benefit from Shock assault and Litanies for increased attacks (due to model count)
Lots of swings to trigger bonus attacks and doctrine
More benefit from helbrect's aura

Cons:
Attacks are weak without expensive upgrades
Needs buffs to be effective
Not much survivablity after disembark
Heavy reliance on nearby characters to deal with heavy assault troops

What are your thoughts on this? Which would you use?

[Acebaur]

I think it depends on what you are trying to use them for. If you want a dedicated CC unit that is going to tear up anything it touches then assault centurions all day. You can give them a 5+ FNP with a nearby chaplain which is really important if they get stuck out in the open. I think the Hurricane bolters are still worth it even if you can't advance and shoot with them. Siege drills are stupid good, no penalty to hit and -4 AP with 3 damage? They are the CC answer to tanks for sure, and anything else that gets in their way :lol:

 

Crusaders can be decent in CC and will clean house with most other troops and even some elite units, but they aren't going to reliably take down tanks reliably enough. I think both have their place in the army, but assault cents are a true dedicated CC unit vs a troop unit that can be solid in CC with the right buffs

 

Just be prepared to use the 5+ FNP and 4++ relic on the LRC until it can make it across the field to prevent them having to walk

[Link2edition]

I think it depends on what you are trying to use them for. If you want a dedicated CC unit that is going to tear up anything it touches then assault centurions all day. You can give them a 5+ FNP with a nearby chaplain which is really important if they get stuck out in the open. I think the Hurricane bolters are still worth it even if you can't advance and shoot with them. Siege drills are stupid good, no penalty to hit and -4 AP with 3 damage? They are the CC answer to tanks for sure, and anything else that gets in their way

 

Crusaders can be decent in CC and will clean house with most other troops and even some elite units, but they aren't going to reliably take down tanks reliably enough. I think both have their place in the army, but assault cents are a true dedicated CC unit vs a troop unit that can be solid in CC with the right buffs

 

Just be prepared to use the 5+ FNP and 4++ relic on the LRC until it can make it across the field to prevent them having to walk

Last game I won because the sheer number of obsec bodies I got into assault meant my opponent lost control of his objectives while still sitting on them. It makes me hesitant to take the plunge on the centurions.

 

That said if you look at the list in the link, I AM using the crusaders as dedicated CC so it might be worth it.

[Medjugorje]

maybe playing both of them. Against one unit you shoot them into hell and the other unit get charged and the Stratagems work perfect (no counter-offense) for the secound charging unit.

[Acebaur]

Plus the centurions and LRC can clear any chaff units your opponents will use to try and block you from your target. 5 centurions throw out 60 bolter shots and 10D6 flamers. Even elite units are going to suffer against that. 

[Link2edition]

Plus the centurions and LRC can clear any chaff units your opponents will use to try and block you from your target. 5 centurions throw out 60 bolter shots and 10D6 flamers. Even elite units are going to suffer against that. 

So you are saying run one squad of each? One for objectives and one for killing stuff?

 

If I do that the problem is points.

 

I need to free up 60 points to bump the crusaders to centurions, Then I need to find 55 more to add another troop unit in.

 

That is enough to just have vanguard vets AND crusaders. Instead of centurions. Hence the dillema.

[Acebaur]

 

Plus the centurions and LRC can clear any chaff units your opponents will use to try and block you from your target. 5 centurions throw out 60 bolter shots and 10D6 flamers. Even elite units are going to suffer against that. 

So you are saying run one squad of each? One for objectives and one for killing stuff?

 

If I do that the problem is points.

 

I need to free up 60 points to bump the crusaders to centurions, Then I need to find 55 more to add another troop unit in.

 

That is enough to just have vanguard vets AND crusaders. Instead of centurions. Hence the dillema.

 

 

This is what I'd do. Drop one of the crusader squads entirely, along with both MM, one or two shots from them isn't going to make a giant difference in your game. Especially when you can punch stuff in CC with centurions. Then take the 10 man scout squad and split them to 2 five man. It looks like you are running them with bolters anyway. Then take 4 Centurions with hurricanes and flamers. That leaves you 25 points to play with. 

[SirJyo]

Let's not forget that until or if it is nerfed, The imperial fist stratagem "close-range bolter fire" is a viable strategy to turn ANY unit's bolt weapons (even vehicles) into pistols for the sake of shooting. Hurricane Bolter becomes pistol 6.

 

So centurions assault squads can definitely advance and shoot when using "the emperor's will

" Aditionally they receive a boost to Bolter ap when in the assault phase.

 

As much as I like crusader squads they are overpriced for what they do.

 

I've found 10 man scouts with thunder hammer Sargeant a to be surprisingly effective at covering the board and charging out from cover especially with the reroll all wounds stratagem.

[Acebaur]

That's true, forgot about that strat. Definitely useful though you do lose a bit of output as they become pistol 2 instead of rapid fire. Still though, if you need to advance to ensure a charge better 30 shots than none or not making the charge.

[SirJyo]

It actually becomes pistol (insert number here) so rapid fire 6 = pistol 6 for hurricane Bolter.

 

Not a bad strat for auto bolt rifle intercessors with their assault 3.

[Acebaur]

It actually becomes pistol (insert number here) so rapid fire 6 = pistol 6 for hurricane Bolter.

 

Not a bad strat for auto bolt rifle intercessors with their assault 3.

Right, I dunno why I said 2 :lol: just have been thinking about the example.

[Link2edition]

For the purposes of this discussion, assume no IF strats