Forge World tweaking Black Library lore

[Guest Drekkan]

That's also my point with Chondax. Whereas I think other changes are more welcome as they don't threaten to upend things (not that the SoH on Prospero does for me).

Soh on Prospero raise a question, what would they say about the deamonic Horus that Hawser and Bjorn are facing ?

[Beren]

They're on the side of the Wolves. Why would you consider their presence that way?

[bluntblade]

It's very much second-fiddle duties (actually, third bassoonist after the Custodians, SoS, Legio Mortis and Ordo Sinister) and oversight on Horus' behalf. Edited December 21, 2019 by bluntblade

[Jareddm]

 

 

That's also my point with Chondax. Whereas I think other changes are more welcome as they don't threaten to upend things (not that the SoH on Prospero does for me).

Soh on Prospero raise a question, what would they say about the deamonic Horus that Hawser and Bjorn are facing ?

It's not like they were on the same ship. They came with their own.

[bluntblade]

Great Company Tra was in the van anyway, fighting it's way to the Pyramid of Thotep through industrial areas (Hawser notes that that area is absurdly beautiful for what it is).

[Lucerne]

With the "quality" of most of the Siege novels, it's safe to say that the Black Library accounting and worldbuilding should always play second fiddle to Forge World where they clash- because forge world manages a given quality and consistency that the Black Library team is obviously incapable of.

Edited December 21, 2019 by Ugolino

[rendingon1+]

Agree, I'd even risk an unpopular opinion that you can safely base your HH experience on FW books, totally ignoring BL except for Wraight's works and Primarch Series.

[Leif Bearclaw]

With the "quality" of most of the Siege novels, it's safe to say that the Black Library accounting and worldbuilding should always play second fiddle to Forge World where they clash- because forge world manages a given quality and consistency that the Black Library team is obviously incapable of.

I haven't really been following the Siege books (got swamped by HH series a few years ago, and rl hasn't exactly made catching up feasible), what's so bad about them?

[Lucerne]

 

With the "quality" of most of the Siege novels, it's safe to say that the Black Library accounting and worldbuilding should always play second fiddle to Forge World where they clash- because forge world manages a given quality and consistency that the Black Library team is obviously incapable of.

I haven't really been following the Siege books (got swamped by HH series a few years ago, and rl hasn't exactly made catching up feasible), what's so bad about them?

 

The characterization of Primarchs cratered even by BL standards, the writing hasn't been great, and the whole thing just lacks a sense of scale or realistic decision making. FW has their work of retconning this mess into something interesting cut out of them.

[b1soul]

@ bluntblade

"That's also my point with Chondax. Whereas I think other changes are more welcome as they don't threaten to upend things (not that the SoH on Prospero does for me)."

 

Right, Chondax is a weird one...the Battle of Phemus IV specifically.

 

Custodes at Signus and SoH at Prospero simply strike me as rather jarring (i.e. retroactively shoe-horned in), from an editorial perspective.

 

On the other hand, Chondax comes closer to upending Scars, and is a genuine head-scratcher. But is must be said, I prefer FW's expanded events to Wraight's simpler sequence of events.

[bluntblade]

My issue is that in changes the Scars' entire arc in that book.

[The_son_of_Dorn]

SoH at prospero is dumb frankly, what you have is essentially is a loyalist faction and "loyalist" faction squaring off. It simply wouldn't make sense to commit force to a kill box. Edited December 27, 2019 by Brother Tyler

[Beren]

Except they never were involved in the main battle. They culled a few amongst their own ranks and scoured civilians from secured areas, whilst capturing psykers for later use as weapons.

[Fajita Fan]

Except they never were involved in the main battle. They culled a few amongst their own ranks and scoured civilians from secured areas, whilst capturing psykers for later use as weapons.

Yeah, they brought Sisters because they’re nulls and the Thousand Sons are psykers. Makes perfect sense to have Sisters on Prospero when you’re planing to bring back Magnus in chains. Edited December 25, 2019 by Fajita Fan

[Beren]

He's talking about the Sons of Horus I believe.

[rendingon1+]

For me it looks like entire Scars arc in Malevolence was changed in last possible moment. For worse. Remember, FW's original plans for Malevolence (after Angelus was called of) included additional SW and AL units or whatever, which suggests events prior to Alaxxes Nebula and which would have been easily connected with Scars arc. Malevolence Chondax campaign (open war with AL) is the first flat out retconn of BL story, not filling the gaps or exploring unexplored, but retcon. One of the main reasons I don't like Malevolence.

[bluntblade]

I think that's really the distinction that needs making - thanks, redington

[Leif Bearclaw]

For me it looks like entire Scars arc in Malevolence was changed in last possible moment. For worse. Remember, FW's original plans for Malevolence (after Angelus was called of) included additional SW and AL units or whatever, which suggests events prior to Alaxxes Nebula and which would have been easily connected with Scars arc. Malevolence Chondax campaign (open war with AL) is the first flat out retconn of BL story, not filling the gaps or exploring unexplored, but retcon. One of the main reasons I don't like Malevolence.

Could you elaborate a bit as to why its worse? Retcons aren't inherently bad (it's why there's no more half eldar Ultramarine Librarians, or Legion size increased since Horus Rising-ATS), but an individual retcon can be good, bad or neutral. The HH series (and potentially the Visions of Heresy book before it) have already retconned the Heresy a few times. From the scale of the battle of Yarant, to Ferrus gunning for Fulgrim instead of Horus at Istvaan V (plus the 'was never seen again, believed to be dead' fate vs 'confirmed dead, Horus used his skull to rp Hamlet for a while, and may have been given back to the IH to convince them to fall in line with the Codex') and the entire story of Alaxxes.

[Brother Pheidias]

@Leif Bearclaw: Because the FW-description makes the entirety of "Scars" completely pointless, and that book singlehandedly did more for the Scars in terms of characterization than all of GW's collected work on them throughout the last three decades. There was an entire four years of Heresy where FW could have done their own thing, instead they upended a pivotal moment for the White Scars and replaced it with a less than satisfactory shadow-campaign.

[bluntblade]

Precisely. And they missed a great opportunity for their own book's theme.

[Sviox]

@Leif Bearclaw: Because the FW-description makes the entirety of "Scars" completely pointless, and that book singlehandedly did more for the Scars in terms of characterization than all of GW's collected work on them throughout the last three decades. There was an entire four years of Heresy where FW could have done their own thing, instead they upended a pivotal moment for the White Scars and replaced it with a less than satisfactory shadow-campaign.

 

Exactly. Well said. I can digest SoH on Prospero since it expands existing fluff (in a rather clever way) instead of rewriting it. But changing Chondax from AL covert operation into all-out war is a weird choice from the author.