Ultramarines feel too good

[Madmark666]

I'll qualify this by saying this is in relation to only my local gaming group, and I'm not playing in tournaments.

 

I've only played a few games but it feels like it's not much of a challenge against the various chaos factions I've encountered. I've faced Nurgle Demons, Death Guard, and Emperors Children, all solid armies played by people that know their armies and can play very well and I just feel like a steamroller as I crush them. I know it's not fun for them and it's not fun for me to have to try so little. 

 

Anyone else having these kinds of experiences in their local gaming groups? I know it's not the norm for competitive 40k but I don't enjoy the game when my opponent isn't having fun and I don't like the "easy mode" feel of the new books. I'm tempted to play without any doctrines to try to rebalance things.

 

Maybe this is just a rare circumstance but I feel like these new marines supplements went way too far with the power level. I'm interested to hear other peoples thoughts.

[Gederas]

Welcome to playing Marines Codex 2.0. This has been a thing since that codex came out. It's normal.

[mel_danes]

How competitive do you make your lists?

 

Your opponents look like they are using varieties of Chaos Forces, which are notably on the lower end of the power spectrum.

The SM getting new toys to play with the big boys only makes that more apparent.

 

I play Ultramarines,Alpha Legion, and Death Guard. My regular opponent plays Orks, Ad Mec and Crons. Before the SM update he crushed me regularly with any of those forces, now it's a little in my favor. He still pulls off victories handily with his orks, board control is hard to maintain with so few boys in blue.

 

Possibly use different units in your force, not all SM unit gets as much out of the new books.

[Subtleknife]

I play all Primaris ultras and whilst I did steam roll my mates deathguard I promptly got plastered by a triple riptide list. Maybe it's my skill as a player but I certainly found I didnt have the tools to deal with the tau play style.

[StrummersGhost]

I only play with close friends whose armies include Orks, 1k Sons, Daemons, Guard, Nids, Necrons and GSC. Whilst I've won a few games I'm certainly not annihilating anyone. Most of the games I've played recently against 1k sons and Orks have been pretty close with me losing (ITC format for what it's worth). I think the Ultra supplement is pretty dead on, wouldn't say it was particularly overpowered or easy mode.

 

As said, how competitive are your lists compared to theirs? Really depends on what you're taking I guess.

[Madmark666]

Appreciate the input fellow battle brothers. 

 

As far as my list is concerned I think its a fairly moderate all-comers type of army made up of all primaris units. I typically use a primaris captain with the burning blade relic, primaris LT, and primaris chaplain. I've been taking two 5 man squads of shooty grapnel reivers, primaris apothecary, and squad of three aggressors. Then usually minimum four 5 man squads of intercessors (three bolt rifle and one auto bolt rifle), and in most cases a plasma redemptor, squad of eliminators, squad of suppressors, and either a few hellblaster squads or repulsor.  Aside from the repulsor it feels pretty normal as a baseline marine force. 

 

From the sound of things it may just be that my opponents need to adapt a little bit to the new optimized marine codex, and I need to play more games to see if things average out in terms of win/loss. I guess I just want to make sure I'm not making games unenjoyable for people since one sided games aren't really a lot of fun for anyone. 

 

Thanks for the thoughs.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

For some reason I hear a tiny violin .

[Aothaine]

From the sound of things it may just be that my opponents need to adapt a little bit to the new optimized marine codex, and I need to play more games to see if things average out in terms of win/loss. I guess I just want to make sure I'm not making games unenjoyable for people since one sided games aren't really a lot of fun for anyone. 

 

Thanks for the thoughs.

 

The new dex is very strong. But we'll see how it plays out in the next few months when other factions start to get their new rules. For now, just have fun. :D Space Marines have had to wait a year or two to get back onto the top tables. Everyone has their time in the sun.

[Kallas]

From the sound of things it may just be that my opponents need to adapt a little bit to the new optimized marine codex, and I need to play more games to see if things average out in terms of win/loss. I guess I just want to make sure I'm not making games unenjoyable for people since one sided games aren't really a lot of fun for anyone. 

 

To be honest, there's probably some holdover from the previous, very underpowered, Marine Codex. At this point, Marines have been pushovers for almost two years, so if they haven't played against the new Codex much they might just be in the adjustment phase.

 

The new Codex is strong, but the core Codex isn't overpowered, and the Ultramarine Supplement is probably the most balanced (it's good, but not overbearing in any particular way; lists can be, against the right/wrong opponent, but the options aren't too powerful). Contrast that with the release-version Iron Hands who absolutely were overpowered.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t ever remember anyone that play Imperial Knights concerned they were overpowered.

 

I have listened to several podcasts featuring top tier players for faction like Necrons and Tyranids - they all said Space Marines are where they should be now.

[Madmark666]

It may be the case that some top tier players feel that marines are in a good place now, but those players are not in my local gaming group whose focus is fun narrative gaming.

 

Likewise some people that played knight lists may not have been concerned with their opponents enjoyment but this thread began as a reaction to the experiences of people, who are my friends, against my army. If someone isn't concerned with their opponents enjoyment of the game then they're not my friend and not in my gaming circle.

 

I appreciate all the constructive thoughts everyone.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Madmark666

[Aothaine]

Space Marines are no longer a push over army though. I think that is where most of the backlash is coming from. People expected a minor boost to space marines, not have them on equal footing. Competitive and Friendly marine lists are still not dominating every game. If you're friends are struggling and you are indeed in a friendly environment, then help them by giving them advise about the units you find are more difficult to deal with. Remind them to play the objectives. This game isn't just about tabling you're opponent, especially in narrative play. Rescuing that Imperial politician or maybe assassinating him is the goal. Should most definitely keep that in mind about narrative play. Another thing that could be an issue is the board. I'm not sure how much terrain you play with on your boards but maybe increasing the terrain will help. 8th ed is designed to be played with quite a bit of terrain. 

 

In the end you need to remember it is a game and unless you're playing competitively you can adjust rules to make everyone happy. The state of people enjoying the game in a non-competitive environment ultimately comes down to the players playing the game and not the rules they are playing with. Sorry for the harsh statement, but it is true.   

Edited December 12, 2019 by Aothaine

[Madmark666]

Not harsh at all so no apologies needed, you've done a good job summing up my gaming philosophy. It's not that I'm setting out to win through superior firepower or anything, just that the dice let it happen pretty easily. Ultimately this thread exist because I'm curious about other people's experiences and want to ensure that I can find ways to make sure my opponents enjoy the game as much as I do.

[Daigo Cannon]

My main problem is facing Dark eldar, the vehicle with 9 shots of AP -3 2D it desintegrates primaris easily and the other problem I have is with Astra militarum, those basilisk are a real paint.

All other lists I feel there is oportunity against them.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

If it really bothers you take a weaker list.

[Emicus]

What's your list?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

"I typically use a primaris captain with the burning blade relic, primaris LT, and primaris chaplain. I've been taking two 5 man squads of shooty grapnel reivers, primaris apothecary, and squad of three aggressors. Then usually minimum four 5 man squads of intercessors (three bolt rifle and one auto bolt rifle), and in most cases a plasma redemptor, squad of eliminators, squad of suppressors, and either a few hellblaster squads or repulsor. Aside from the repulsor it feels pretty normal as a baseline marine force."

[Emicus]

That's... Certainly not an optimized list. Maybe your opponents need to stop whining and play better.

[Seahawk]

My opponents' only complaints are about the repulsor. 

[Sugarlessllama]

Enjoy it while it lasts. 

[Lucerne]

Basically, GW is breaking the game in your "favor", so, yes, it probably would be courteous to do fan rebalancing, either on your end of theirs.

[Ishagu]

The Ultras are not overpowered at all. They have a win rate at around 50% - Exactly what it should be.

 

Your local group might be very, very casual.

Edited December 22, 2019 by Ishagu

[eternal_warrior12]

I’ve never played as ultramarines but always respected them from afar. I’ve almost always played space marines though. This new edition and Codex with supplements are great and I’ve never had more fun with this game.

 

I would suggest, like others have, to take some things that you’ve never taken before. Try out new stuff and maybe find something you didn’t even know you were looking for.

 

.... and don’t fight whack triple riptide/knight lists :p