Legends - less than what it could have been?

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

So, I was looking over Legends rules, and a couple major things caught my eye, none of them good. It bothers me that they didn't actually provide rules for ALL models with discontinued rules EVER as promised, but I don't mind that as much as a couple nitpicks I have.

 

For one, they didn't account for the Sonic Dreadnought as a Helbrute weapon option.

For two, they didn't do Sanguinary Priest Jump Packs, even though they should have.

For three, Death Guard don't get Sorcerers on Palanquins, nor do they get any of the Biker HQs. TS suffer from the same problem regarding Biker Sorcerers.

 

I noticed that there are a lot of bikers. A lot. Like, all the biker HQs for both major power armor armies. Why?

[Slasher956]

Yes it could have been a lot lot more... like rules for all the options that they never produced a model for but recommended you converted your self.

[TrawlingCleaner]

Legends was never about giving rules to ALL models they've produced, it was about giving permanent rules to models that had rules at the beginning of 8th that they no longer produce. There was never a datasheet for the Sonic Dreadnought unless I'm mistaken, IMO it makes a lot of sense. Get rid of the bloat and models that very few people still use (and aren't produced anymore) and still give an option to those that still do

Edited December 13, 2019 by TrawlingCleaner

[NTaW]

Sanguinary Priests got jump packs in their new Blood of Baal datasheet at least.

[BluejayJunior]

Would you rather have the Sanguinary Priests with jump packs in Legends instead of in Blood of Baal?

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Legends cannot be everything for everybody. There’s always house rules.

[Wulf Vengis]

See, there's one of the SERIOUS problems with this legends rubbish, (and rubbish it is mind you).

 

"it was about giving permanent rules to models that had rules at the beginning of 8th that they no longer produce".

 

They still produced these models at the beginning of 8th, they simply mentioned that models they didn't make rules for/rules they didn't make models for would be finding their way into the "Legends" book. (Rubbish) To which how many of us fraters cried, whined or preached warnings that they were going to roll og marines into legends. We were met with naysayers and even GW themselves saying not to worry og marines are safe. (RUBBISH)

 

"Get rid of the bloat and models that very few people still use (and aren't produced anymore) and still give an option to those that still do"

 

Now the first real glimpse into "legends"is here and low and behold it's chock full of og marines. Every bike they could find that isn't attached to a scout. These are NOT units people weren't using. These ARE units that in some factions have a strong and rich importance and history. Were talking about hundreds maybe thousands of dollars worth of people's hard work, love, and appreciation of their bike models with dozens or hundreds of hours spent on their creation/conversion. This wasn't some forgotten unit our model from yester-year this IS the Raven Wing, this IS the White Scars. (RUBBISH)

 

I've said numerous times before that this is a systematic purge of everything the marines USED to be and within a few years there will be no more og marines. I was met by constant scoffing and assurances that GW said it's not a purge and replacement. My only defense being that I've seen enough "new-hotness" replacing the "old-busted" over the years to know when it's happening.

 

Fortunately i don't have any bikes in active use in my army but I'm aware of the "mortality" of my once incredible army. Once incredible, now quivering in fear at the sight of an impending doom that i predicted the moment those bloody primaris emerged from their hate filled creators pen, because they know as i did on that day that the thousands of dollars I've spent on this hobby, the hundreds of hours I've poured into building/painting/converting and every other aspect of the game over the years will be wasted the second the og marines are listed "Legends".

 

RUBBISH

 

I for one will not be continuing my hobby work when this is done. I've sunk too much into this game over 20 years. My small army is nothing compared to some of you out there, but it's 20 years worth of what i could afford to scrape together and occasionally purchase. I won't be giving another 20 years to this, i just can't afford it and i especially don't appreciate being lied to in such a manner. So when the rest of my army hits Legends I'm out. Its been fun ladies and gentlemen but it's too greedy, too dirty, and too offensive in my opinion to be told my tabletop game (essentially a board game) is phasing out 20 years (my time in the hobby not to mention people who've been at this longer than me) worth of collecting/building and painting plastic soldiers and that i have to start over. No thank you.

 

RUBBISH.

 

I'll end with this, primaris should not have been a new unit scheduled to eventually replace the og marines. Primaris should have been true scale marines. Something to slowly replace your old marines with unit by unit without literally replacing them in the game (similar to the larger sized tda release of 5th edition).

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Wow that a lot of salt there. What if they release some Primaris jetbike units though then what ?

[Wulf Vengis]

Of course it's a lot of salt, I'm watching the systematic removal of something I've spent 20 of my 36 years on this planet lovingly dedicated to be ripped away, torn apart and replaced by a shallow, soulless money grab that I'm expected to just roll with and re-purchase. Not gonna happen.

 

Sorry no. I can't afford the price of starting from scratch. It took 20 years to amass what I've got, I've never been rich and have spent my time making basically the minimum legal amount of money (welcome to America) living paycheck to paycheck. I have two kids now and so less money than before. Sorry i can't do it not for 20 years not spending 50$ once or twice a year to replace what I've already bought and built with the new version because the models i own won't have rules anymore.

 

When they came for the Squats, i said nothing because i had only just discovered 40k.

 

When they came for the sisters i said nothing, because they were rolled into another book.

 

When they came for they black templar i said nothing, because i did not play black templar.

 

Now they come for the Astartes, beginning with bikes, and no one is speaking.

 

Next they will come for Astartes infantry, and we will all be lesser for it when it is done.

Edited December 13, 2019 by Wulf Vengis

[WarriorFish]

A little less hyperbole would be nice please. Let's focus on Legends and what it could be, as that could very well provide for older models if it was more fleshed out. Thanks.

[NTaW]

If the Index books from 8th's launch are still valid is Legends just offering us updated points for some of the options?

Edited December 13, 2019 by NTaW

[Wulf Vengis]

From what i understandthe legends book will be or is replacing the index info.

[NTaW]

Hm. That strikes me as an odd play by GW, though I can't quite explain why. It makes sense that they would make this move since the Index books offer too many different rules for units still in a Codex.

 

As for Sanguinary Priests, it says that you should add these options of the datasheet in Codex: Blood Angels:

 

SANGUINARY PRIEST

 

This datasheet gains the following wargear options:

• This model can be equipped with one of the following instead of 1

bolt pistol: 1 boltgun; 1 combi-flamer; 1 combi-grav; 1 combi-melta;

1 combi-plasma; 1 grav-pistol; 1 hand flamer; 1 inferno pistol; 1

plasma pistol; 1 storm bolter.

• This model can be equipped with one of the following instead of

1 chainsword: 1 lightning claw; 1 power axe; 1 power fist; 1 power

lance; 1 power maul; 1 power sword; 1 thunder hammer.

• This model can be equipped with one of the following instead of 1

bolt pistol: 1 chainsword; 1 lightning claw; 1 power axe; 1 power fist;

1 power lance; 1 power maul; 1 power sword; 1 thunder hammer.

 

 

 

I know that technically the option for a jump pack is from Blood of Baal and not Codex Blood Angels but there is a statement in BoB that its datasheets supersede those found in the Codex (BoB pg. 30, Datasheets). I don't really see an issue with me taking my Sanguinary Priest with a lightning claw and jump pack via these rules, unless I am missing something..?

 

Edited December 13, 2019 by NTaW

[Bryan Blaire]

I personally think it's likely we are going to see the flow-chart referencing the Indexes go away soon.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

The indices were necessary to reboot the game. Just like the 3rd Edition RB had all the army lists in the back. It’s very hard for GW to maintain them.

[Irbis]

I was met by constant scoffing and assurances that GW said it's not a purge and replacement.

 

So, where are all these mountains of primaris bikes replacing old kits?

 

I'd like to know, after all, GW put subliminal message in the fumes of contrast paint telling me to buy them and replace stuff

 

When they came for the sisters i said nothing, because they were rolled into another book.

 

Yup, look at these squatted Sisters! Oh wait--

[Marshal Reinhard]

When they came for the sisters i said nothing, because they were rolled into another book.

Don't think you could have picked a worse example.

 

And as much as I feel Black Templars definately were treated as second class citizens when you look at the fact that all other chapter tactic bearing chapters got at least something in this latest release cycle and they got nothing, and that this doesn't bode very well for the future, i still think there's a distance between that and "when they came for Black Templars".

 

Like, I feel you have valid greivances, but the way you're packaging it all....

[chapter master 454]

I feel really a good chunk of people have valid grievances with legends has it does just reek of a greed. By all accounts GW should put the Gravis Captain into legends since there is no model for it proper.

 

My annoyance is the fact they put the command tanks into legends over actually just making it available world wide. "Come to Warhammer World. We even have an exclusive model that you can't play unless you are a casual player but chances are if you are casual you won't actually come to warhammer world..."

And to cap it, they didn't fix both tanks proper with the Primaris still able to kill itself with its own plasma. Suppose they don't want to have confusion with their shiny new Primaris Marines because they are where we are going at this rate.

(salty because I did actually make a journey to warhammer world with one reason being getting the excelsior and primaris so there is some context)

 

However the mass genocide of the biker HQs is just...incredible. Slowly and surely, the noose tightens.

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

I would have liked terminator Sanuinary Priests. That and the new litanie system for DA biker chaplains of both flavours.

[NTaW]

Biker HQs, with the exception of the Captain on Bike datasheet, have been relegated to Index-only sheets since the SM Codex was released at the beginning of 8th weren't they?

 

As someone who has no Primaris I am glad to see classic datasheets for characters in Legends since I'm sure they will be dropped from future releases (though the BA Codex has had two pages of Tycho for several editions since he died). I would have appreciated if Mephiston wasn't the same price as Primaris Mephiston despite the wound/attack difference but ah well.

 

EDIT: RIP Sanguinary Priests in TDA, I had totally forgotten about them.

Edited December 14, 2019 by NTaW

[Schlitzaf]

I mean, legends was fine I was the forgotten FW Faq units were legended but alas. Really only other thing I’d want from legended, is for me. Personally seen them put certain flavor units not getting a model release but ought to exist. My personal example always been lack of Biker Crusaders

[FormelyKnownAsSmashyPants]

3rd ed Codex Armageddon basically had crusader bike squads. They had both initiate and neophyte bikers in the same unit IIRC.

[Guest Triszin]

I expect the it to grow, exponentially over the next few years.

[Schlitzaf]

3rd ed Codex Armageddon basically had crusader bike squads. They had both initiate and neophyte bikers in the same unit IIRC.

I know and its a unit I always want to come back

[Noserenda]

Im constantly amazing by the weird reactions to Legends, GW goes and gives you solid rules for stuff they obviously dont intend to make themselves and people keep acting like its some kind of apocalypse. If YOU decide to not use those rules in games thats really on you right? Its in no way equivalent to not having any support like actually being squatted and Jesus Christ its in no way equivalent to the holocaust! Maybe step back and have some perspective?