How will Marine buffs level the playing field for DA?

[SnakeChisler]

Just watched a Crimson Fist v Eldar  Batrep, the level of buffs there getting just blew me away the damage output on heavy and bolt weapons combined with re-roll everything + doctrines.

 

Not sure I got all the new rules but +1 Damage and -1 to hit on autocannons was crazy bad, exploding 6's on bolt weapons combined with re-rolls on stuff like heavy bolters / assault bolters was devastating.

 

His opponent's mech was shredded and its the 1st time I've seen Eldar Wave serpents and flyers at -2 /3 get pummeled out of the sky so quickly.

 

Makes taking mech a scary prospect, to get anywhere near the kind of fire output we'd need permanent damage 2 plasma + WOTDA ?

[oldmanlee]

Yeah marines are crazy good think gw went way to far with there buffs.just goes to show there total lack of play testing or listening to there play testers .i hope we get the same lv of buffs but I just don't see it not with the whining the general player base have made with marines

[Chaplain Elijah]

Dark Angels is a sub par army currently, the expected buffs would make the book playable on the competitive scene but not much more unless GW go crazy with PA4.

[G8Keeper]

I've said it before, look to how BA were treated in Blood of Baal.  We'll get stratagems like Transhuman Physiology etc as well as some unique DA ones, doctrines and something that is usable in one specific doctrine that's unique to DA, special issue wargear, new master Lazarus, maybe 6 more relics and I would guess at Deathwing Agressors.  

[Berzul]

Sounds like a good enough deal, to me. I do hope that Inner Circle will get reworked into something better. As it stands, I see hardly any difference in using aggressors as part of the Deathwing or as part of the Greenwing. Except for the color scheme, and personal lore consistency in the army composition when fielding them.

[G8Keeper]

Sounds like a good enough deal, to me. I do hope that Inner Circle will get reworked into something better. As it stands, I see hardly any difference in using aggressors as part of the Deathwing or as part of the Greenwing. Except for the color scheme, and personal lore consistency in the army composition when fielding them.

 

At worst they'll have +1A  and be able to use any inner circle/ deathwing abilities and/or stratagems.

[Angel of Solitude]

My personal wish is for Aggressors jury-rigged with a teleport device, giving them access to the Deathwing Assault Stratagem. Double-firing Aggressors arriving from deep strike? Yes please! Tactical Doctrine giving AP-1? More please!

[Berzul]

My personal wish is for Aggressors jury-rigged with a teleport device, giving them access to the Deathwing Assault Stratagem. Double-firing Aggressors arriving from deep strike? Yes please! Tactical Doctrine giving AP-1? More please!

Ok, if Aggressors COULD do that, then Deathwing Assault would be amazingly good, and it would make sense to want the guys in the DW.

But, as it stands, even though there ARE some abilities and stratagems for the DW, I honestly feel like they amount to very little. I am biased against the DW this edition, I know. But I seriously see it as being very little in terms of benefits, between being in or not being in the DW for the aggressors.

[Neuralshock]

Devastator doctrine is going to slap for talonmasters and Sammy, especially if they get some sort of bonus to moving and shooting heavy weaps. An updated reroll aura for Sam, Bel, and Azrael is gonna help a lot. 

[SnakeChisler]

Devastator doctrine is going to slap for talonmasters and Sammy, especially if they get some sort of bonus to moving and shooting heavy weaps. An updated reroll aura for Sam, Bel, and Azrael is gonna help a lot. 

Devastator doctrines on those two that would be good

 

On Sam's other ride tactical doctrines on the dual storm bolter 

 

Another thought was they may just ditch overheat for plasma for us or maybe give us a mortal wound stratagem on 6's for it or both

[Gederas]

Devastator doctrine is going to slap for talonmasters and Sammy, especially if they get some sort of bonus to moving and shooting heavy weaps. An updated reroll aura for Sam, Bel, and Azrael is gonna help a lot. 

Devastator doctrines on those two that would be good

 

On Sam's other ride tactical doctrines on the dual storm bolter 

 

Another thought was they may just ditch overheat for plasma for us or maybe give us a mortal wound stratagem on 6's for it or both

Oh god, yes please.

 

Really, I think the big thing also is they need to rework Grim Resolve. Because it only really affects Greenwing. Re-roll 1s while stationary? Please tell me how bikes are affected by this? The "only lose 1 to morale", again only affects Greenwing, because we have a LOT of units that are already Fearless.

[Berzul]

 

Devastator doctrine is going to slap for talonmasters and Sammy, especially if they get some sort of bonus to moving and shooting heavy weaps. An updated reroll aura for Sam, Bel, and Azrael is gonna help a lot. 

Devastator doctrines on those two that would be good

 

On Sam's other ride tactical doctrines on the dual storm bolter 

 

Another thought was they may just ditch overheat for plasma for us or maybe give us a mortal wound stratagem on 6's for it or both

Oh god, yes please.

 

Really, I think the big thing also is they need to rework Grim Resolve. Because it only really affects Greenwing. Re-roll 1s while stationary? Please tell me how bikes are affected by this? The "only lose 1 to morale", again only affects Greenwing, because we have a LOT of units that are already Fearless.

 

 

We risk re-doing the argument against the special abilities of the chapter, here.

 

I suggest we try to spin it into positive language. That is, what buff we should get or be nice to get.

 

I'm thinking you could expand Grim Resolve so that units gain a 6+ FnP of sorts, against being removed from play for overcharged plasma. As in, if you overcharge, and did not move, and roll a 1, on a 6+ you ignore the effect. This, over taking a MW, since models of 1W only would still die, and because having MWs applied instead starts to cause the possible effect of having a wounded squad receiving a mortal wound on a fresh model.

I.E.: If a terminator squad has 1 terminator wounded, and another one fires a plasma cannon, and overheats, and gets a mortal wound, does that wound go on the already wounded guy? does it go on the heavy gunner? If its the gunner, then next time the squad takes a wound, who dies?

[Chaplain Elijah]

My personal wish is for Aggressors jury-rigged with a teleport device, giving them access to the Deathwing Assault Stratagem. Double-firing Aggressors arriving from deep strike? Yes please! Tactical Doctrine giving AP-1? More please!

Maybe i got you wrong but just to be sure : Fire Storm would not proc here because deep striking count as moving. So they would just fire twice like if they didn't moved. Also their weapons are assault so no -1AP from Tactical Doctrine.

[Fierce Bear]

I was watching a DA Vs DG game on Winters SEO last night, left me pondering whether updating Inner Circle to be like the BL 'council of Traitors' ability, that way you could bring the 'Wings' together, as the Warlord Traits of Az, Sam, Belial and Ezekiel actually have some good synergy for us... I mean we Sons of the Lion are supposed to be great strategists after all... ...pretty painless way to get CP, charging buff and so on...

 

...Also I realised that Talon masters and Landspeeders don't get Grim Resolve... Of course they should never be still but... Yeah.

[SnakeChisler]

The way Space Marines have changed then I'd expect everything including all vehicles to get grim resolve, most people run the speeders as a pair (Sam & Talon)

 

With the points drop on his jetbike I'd expect him to crop up in quite a few varied lists

[Berzul]

I was watching a DA Vs DG game on Winters SEO last night, left me pondering whether updating Inner Circle to be like the BL 'council of Traitors' ability, that way you could bring the 'Wings' together, as the Warlord Traits of Az, Sam, Belial and Ezekiel actually have some good synergy for us... I mean we Sons of the Lion are supposed to be great strategists after all... ...pretty painless way to get CP, charging buff and so on...

 

...Also I realised that Talon masters and Landspeeders don't get Grim Resolve... Of course they should never be still but... Yeah.

I like this idea.

[Fierce Bear]

The way Space Marines have changed then I'd expect everything including all vehicles to get grim resolve, most people run the speeders as a pair (Sam & Talon)

 

With the points drop on his jetbike I'd expect him to crop up in quite a few varied lists

I realised I nearly always run Sam + Talon, so you get there Ravenwing Reroll... Am looking forward to that first turn alpha with the Dev. Doctrine

[Solrac]

If Blood Angels is anything to go by we will get:

- Re-worked Grim Resolve

 

- New Data sheet for Asmodai for litanies. His +1A aura may be changed to the new DA specific litany (hope not)

 

- 1 new primaris character either Azrael or Ezekiel crossing the Rubicon or getting Master Lazarus

 

- Doctrines + DA specific super Doctrine

 

- Some of the space marine strats + some new DA ones

 

Unfortunately unless Azrael, Sammael and Belial get new data sheets we are gonna be stuck with their old re-roll aura until DA 2.0 comes out. 

 

I really hope our doctrines don't revolve around plasma. A lot of the plasma units/weapons are expensive points wise and being shoe horned into that would be disappointing. 

 

I'm hoping that GW gives us a fair shake. Doesn't have to be top table competitive. As long as I can go to a tournament and confident expect a 3 - 2 that would be great. I think a re-work of Ravenwing and Deathwing won't be coming in PA but later if we get a new DA 2.0 book.

[G8Keeper]

Well they did a new datasheet for lemartes et al for BA (largely due to litanies yes) so here's hoping for the same for our auras etc. Unlikely though as I believe Dante is still the same for BA.

[Solrac]

Well they did a new datasheet for lemartes et al for BA (largely due to litanies yes) so here's hoping for the same for our auras etc. Unlikely though as I believe Dante is still the same for BA.

Yes I I think that's why Asmodai will be the only one to get a new data sheet because he is a chaplain that needs litanies added to it.

 

If they had updated Dante's data sheet I could see them doing Azrael, Belial and Sammael but because they didn't update Dante I think they will save it for later in the 2.0 books for non-codex chapter's.