Trying to restart from 4th edition.

[Nichodemus10]

I have a friend with whom I used to play back in forth edition (some fifth) but just kitchen table games. I have started to play more and believe 8 to is looking great and want him to get back into some really casual games. For books needed does he need both the heretic astartes book and the chaos daemons book? And is there anything else he needs to really make the army functional...

He primarily played either straight khorn or undivided with a strong khorn contingent.

[Gederas]

I have a friend with whom I used to play back in forth edition (some fifth) but just kitchen table games. I have started to play more and believe 8 to is looking great and want him to get back into some really casual games. For books needed does he need both the heretic astartes book and the chaos daemons book? And is there anything else he needs to really make the army functional...

He primarily played either straight khorn or undivided with a strong khorn contingent.

Okay, so by "straight khorne or undivided with a strong khorne contingent" do you mean Khorne as in World Eaters, generic Chaos Marines with Mark of Khorne? Or is your friend basically wanting to play "Khorne Daemonkin", ie: Mark of Khorne Marines + Khorne Daemons?

 

Either way, yes. If you want to use Chaos Marines and Daemons, all you'll need for books are:

• Codex: Chaos Space Marines II
• Codex: Chaos Daemons

There's also Imperium Nihilus: Vigilus Ablaze and Psychic Awakening: Faith and Fury, which have additional rules. If you get Codex: Chaos Space Marines II, Vigilus Ablaze is only necessary if you want the specialist detachments (all the new datasheets from VA are in C:CSM2). Faith and Fury, however, has buffs for Chaos Marines. Not major ones like the new Codex: Space Marines + Supplements have, but definitely ones that make you able to have more fun, fluffy lists.

 

Either way, happy slaying!

Edited December 16, 2019 by Gederas

[MasterDeath]

If your friend just want to summon in some Bloodletters, the stats are also in CSM II-Codex. Anything above these and he will need the Daemon Codex. Khorne Daemons have some bits in Vigilus Ablaze (a special Detachement and special terrain piece, the Skull Altar), but most other stuff is in the Codex as far as I Know. Faith and Fury if he wants to play one of Legions, Vigilant Ablaze again for Renegades.

 

My advise: Get the CSM II-Codex (make sure its the 2.0 one, they have the same cover except for the roman II lower right corner) and play a few rounds, then look for Daemons etc.

[RobWrath]

If I have Codex: CSM I is there any summary of the points/rules changes apart from buying Codex: CSM II?

 

And if I buy Codex: CSM II will it be up to date or will I still need to refer to CA to get the latest updates to the points costs?

 

And is there anything new in Codex: CSM II apart from the tweaks to the rules/points?

If so, that's really quite annoying.

[Special Officer Doofy]

If I have Codex: CSM I is there any summary of the points/rules changes apart from buying Codex: CSM II?

 

And if I buy Codex: CSM II will it be up to date or will I still need to refer to CA to get the latest updates to the points costs?

 

And is there anything new in Codex: CSM II apart from the tweaks to the rules/points?

If so, that's really quite annoying.

There are units only in the second codex and not in the first. CA is having point changes, quite a bit for chaos space marines. Yes it's very annoying. Chaos space marines got a :cussty reprint of a second codex and loyalist space marines got arguably the strongest codex now with the doctrine system and followed by supplements.

 

I can't tell you whether you need and or want the codex, but I would personally not buy one until GW puts out an actual codex with army wide updated traits and other bonuses.

[techsoldaten]

How to put this: There's a rumor 9th edition is coming this summer. Don't spend a ton on books right now. The Codexes have been FAQed so much you are almost better off without them.

 

I'm staring at a shelf containing 5 books released in the last 6 months before 8th came out. Cost about $200 for rules I never got a chance to use because I was still painting.

 

The feeling I get when I think about it is a low-level outrage, this sense that GW was picking my pockets knowing full well what was coming next. Like getting off a train and finding out someone took your wallet. You never forget it.

 

Don't buy more than the core rules, use Battlescribe to build your armies, find copies of Codexes on eBay, look online for rules summaries of books and decide if you really need that or not. Vigilus Ablaze, for instance, has 3 pages of rules I actually use. That's it.

 

If the rumor turns out to be wrong, you are better off because you can spend more on models. If the rumor turns out to be right, you saved yourself from buying something useless. Nothing but upside.

[MasterDeath]

If I have Codex: CSM I is there any summary of the points/rules changes apart from buying Codex: CSM II?

 

And if I buy Codex: CSM II will it be up to date or will I still need to refer to CA to get the latest updates to the points costs?

 

And is there anything new in Codex: CSM II apart from the tweaks to the rules/points?

If so, that's really quite annoying.

If you have CSM I Vigilus Ablaze has the new stuff

 

In both cases CA has the up to date rules.

[RobWrath]

I think for now I'll keep doing what I'm doing; building and painting the army with a vague idea of what the end points value *might* be.

 

I really don't see why I should buy more rulebooks for the same army, for the same game, because the manufacturer didn't get them right the first time. That's stupid.

 

In fact, I think for now I'll just build my army based on power levels and not worry about points.

 

Buuuut...then I'm also curious about the new rules/units (like I know that Dark Apostle rules have changed). 

[MegaVolt87]

I think for now I'll keep doing what I'm doing; building and painting the army with a vague idea of what the end points value *might* be.

 

I really don't see why I should buy more rulebooks for the same army, for the same game, because the manufacturer didn't get them right the first time. That's stupid.

 

In fact, I think for now I'll just build my army based on power levels and not worry about points.

 

Buuuut...then I'm also curious about the new rules/units (like I know that Dark Apostle rules have changed). 

 

If you have no books at all, you are losing nothing buying the revised CSM dex and Faith and fury. Even if you are doing garage hammer, you may as well get the game played correctly as you may want to game at an LGS in the future, even if you don't see yourself doing it at the moment from what I can tell. It will actually cost you more money by buying things that you might not really use because of revised points/ rules etc. Anyway you can find a "digital copy" of CA19 online for not much $$$.    

[Doom Herald]

 

 

If I have Codex: CSM I is there any summary of the points/rules changes apart from buying Codex: CSM II?

 

And if I buy Codex: CSM II will it be up to date or will I still need to refer to CA to get the latest updates to the points costs?

 

And is there anything new in Codex: CSM II apart from the tweaks to the rules/points?

If so, that's really quite annoying.

If you have CSM I Vigilus Ablaze has the new stuff

 

In both cases CA has the up to date rules.

Vigilus Ablaze lacks some stuff from the Daemonkin Codex in Shadowspear.

[Closet Skeleton]

Buuuut...then I'm also curious about the new rules/units (like I know that Dark Apostle rules have changed). 

Only new models got new rules, the rules for those models are in their instruction booklets.

 

 

Vigilus Ablaze lacks some stuff from the Daemonkin Codex in Shadowspear.

 

 

Which is all online except for the psyker warlord trait table.

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ENG_CSM_Datasheets-1.pdf

[Doom Herald]

If you want to go on a budget, the Daemonkin Codex (about 5 USD on ebay) has Legion trait rules, some Warlord traits (psyker only though), and new boxes should have unit rules in them. If you want to expand, the old version of the CSM codex is on Ebay for about 20 USD. Or you can grab Faith and Fury and use with the Daemonkin Codex if you want some more options specific to your legion, or if you want to play Black Legion or maybe Renegades, grab Vigilus Ablaze instead.

 

Codex: CSM

>Most unit rules, warlord traits, legion traits, relics, basic CSM strategems.

 

Codex: CSM [iI]

>All and updated unit rules, all other contents of CSM

 

Codex: Daemonkin

>Legion traits, rules for all models in the start collecting box, psyker only warlord traits.

 

Vigilus Ablaze

>All other new unit rules, Black Legion rules (Legion trait, multiple warlord traits, strategems, and relics.), Renegade Rules (basic rules, warband traits, 1 warlord trait, relic, and strategem for each), specialist detachments. These do include a Khorne terrain and khorne daemons detachment.

 

Faith and Fury

>Daemon weapon relics, rules for the other legions (multiple warlord traits, relics, strats for each)

 

Daemonkin unit rules are in an online PDF, but the warlord traits are not.

 

I really do hate that you have to buy a book for updated points and it's not a part of the FAQ.

 

Edit: GW has said themselves that the CSM DeX is still valid when used with updated unit rules and the FAQ.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Doom Herald

[Special Officer Doofy]

GW is genius. They sell you faction book A, sell someone else faction book B, realize B is way better then A, and update numbers in A at the end of the year because B is way better and CHARGE you for the numbers. Guys at GW are as crafty as the person who invented the blank inside greeting card. That guy made a killing on folded construction paper hahaha.

[RobWrath]

>All and updated unit rules, all other contents of CSM

 

Codex: Daemonkin

>Legion traits, rules for all models in the start collecting box, psyker only warlord traits.

 

 

Just to be clear - is the Daemonkin Codex for 8th Ed the one with the picture of the horned marine swinging an axe? Or the picture of (what I think is) a Master of Possession?

 

My warband is Daemonkin so I kind of think that'd be a good place to start. 

 

I'm not too bothered about being precise on points but traits and relics and stuff is handy to add fluff/crunch combos.

[MegaVolt87]

 

>All and updated unit rules, all other contents of CSM

 

Codex: Daemonkin

>Legion traits, rules for all models in the start collecting box, psyker only warlord traits.

 

 

Just to be clear - is the Daemonkin Codex for 8th Ed the one with the picture of the horned marine swinging an axe? Or the picture of (what I think is) a Master of Possession?

 

My warband is Daemonkin so I kind of think that'd be a good place to start. 

 

I'm not too bothered about being precise on points but traits and relics and stuff is handy to add fluff/crunch combos.

 

 

The PDF dosn't have the warlord traits or the points. Does the start collecting box have it? Its a re-package of the CSM from Shadowspear. 

[Doom Herald]

 

 

>All and updated unit rules, all other contents of CSM

 

Codex: Daemonkin

>Legion traits, rules for all models in the start collecting box, psyker only warlord traits.

 

Just to be clear - is the Daemonkin Codex for 8th Ed the one with the picture of the horned marine swinging an axe? Or the picture of (what I think is) a Master of Possession?

 

My warband is Daemonkin so I kind of think that'd be a good place to start.

 

I'm not too bothered about being precise on points but traits and relics and stuff is handy to add fluff/crunch combos.

The Codex Daemonkin is the one with the Master of Possession. The guy with the axe is Khorne Daemonkin from 7th (6th?). If you are running Daemonkin, Word Bearers is probably the way to go. Between the Codex Daemonkin and Faith & Fury you should have everything you need except datasheets for models not in the Start Collecting box (which should be in the newer boxes for the models themselves).

 

With those 2 books, you'll have Legion Traits, 6 CSM psyker warlord traits, Daemon Weapon relics, atleast 6 of each Warlord Traits, Strategems, and Relics for all legions but Black Legion, Deathguard, and Thosand Sons. Outside of datasheets, you'll just be missing basic CSM strategems and each legion has 1 relic not listed in Faith & Fury that is the sole relic of that legion in the CSM Codex. You'll also be missing the specialist dettachments from Vigilus Ablaze which does include a sweet Daemonkin dettachment.

 

Alternatively, you might try Black Legion Daemonkin and get Vigilus Ablaze instead of Faith & Fury. You'll get the same amount of Black Legion rules as you would for any 1 other legion in Faith & Fury. You would also gain specialist detachments and renegade rules (each renegade warband gets a warband [legion] trait, warlord trait, Relic, and strategem), but Daemon weapons are not in Vigilus Ablaze.

 

If you are playing casual, but want a decent amount of warlord traits, strategems, and relics to choose from, you should do fine with just the daemonkin Codex for legion traits and the (exclusive) psyker warlord traits paired with Vigilus Ablaze for Black Legion or Faith & Fury for any other legion. If you decide to expand later, you can always get the other book later and then either grab Codex: CSM [iI] or Codex: CSM . CSM [iI] will have better consolidation of rules, but CSM is cheaper and combined with the updated rules in Vigilus Ablaze, the Daemonkin Codex, and FAQ you have comete rules.

Edited December 18, 2019 by Doom Herald

[RobWrath]

I'm going Khorne Daemonkin - the Wrath.

[Doom Herald]

Just be aware that the "Khorne Daemonkin" Codex is not compatible with 8th edition.