New 8th ed. player, seeking BA starting advice

[Beta Helix]

Hello Sons of Sanguinius. I've tried a couple times to get back in the hobby through the years only to be thwarted by real life issues. I've never played 8th edition and a friend just gave me the marine half of Shadowspear since he's a heretic but a pretty generous one who wants to fight me. I'd like an all Primaris model force, which I know might not be optimal but I like them. I'm asking for advice on where go from here?

 

Would you recommend Dark Imperium? Is the rulebook inside the same as the big rulebook? Besides a Codex what else do I need?

 

Also....I've been out of the hobby a bit. Is it okay to make standard marine units out of Primaris bits if they look right? Mostly I'm thinking Sanguinary Guard and Priests, and would tell my opponent beforehand. I just don't know if that would be an issue at tourn amends which I may give a try.

 

Beyond that any general Primaris Blood Angel advice for a newbie is appreciated :)

[Neuralshock]

Welcome to the space vampire club!

 

The BRB in the dark imperium box IS the BRB so... yes. Dark imperium is a pretty good start as you get 2 5x intercessors and 3 pretty good HQ choices. Paired with the shadowspear half you'll have a decent hitting primaris force. Primaris models are a bit mono-pose so it might take some effort to convert primaris SG and Priests, but as long as it looks legit you won't get any complaints.

[Cruor Vault]

Primaris units are much better than they were upon first release.

 

Many Space Marine players of all stripes are moving more and more towards pure Primaris armies.

 

Getting the Dark Imperium Box set to compliment your Shadowspear models is a solid step on expanding your army.  The Dark Imperium rulebook is the exact same version that it sold separately, so it's a significant bargain.  You can likely sell the Chaos half of Dark Imperium for a few bucks (or find a friend who will trade you).

 

Converting Primaris units into Chapter Specific units like Sanguinary Guard or Priests is going to be a little hard as the Primaris units don't go together the same way as the older models (you can't swap out chest plates easily, etc).  They're also noticeably larger than their older counterparts.

[Beta Helix]

Thank you, I thought perhaps the book in Dark Imperium was just some starter book. I've heard buzz about Chapter Approved, will I need to get that when it releases?

 

I was also curious if I should assemble the 10 Infiltrators as a whole unit with the mini-Apothecary or two 5 man units?

 

Regarding Primaris models, are the heads also larger than standard marines? Are they any larger than Stormcast Eternals? I had an idea for something far down the road, but I'm not getting fancy with conversions until I get the base skills back again :p

[BluejayJunior]

Heads, hands, and shoulder pads are all exchangable between primaris and non primaris.

 

The Infiltrators from Shadowspear can only be built one way. There's a SGT, the Helix Adept, and 8 Infiltrators. If you wanted to make 2 5-man units, you would have to convert the helix into another sgt. 

 

As far as books, you need the Blood Angels codex. Chapter Approved 2019 is already out. It has all the points and some rules and missions. Eventually, you will want to get the Psychic Awakening: Blood of Baal. It has some good updates for Blood Angels. It's not necessary to learn the game, but it's something you'll want once you have a handle on things.

Also, check the Warhammer Community site to get the FAQs for all your relevant books. 

[Beta Helix]

Great, that really clears things up. Jumping in after the long absence I was a little flustered. I assumed a marine army would be the easiest way back in, and since my first army was Blood Angels it looks like I picked a good time. I appreciate all the advice :)

[Majkhel]

Also for easier list-building, look for the BattleScribe app (available both for desktop as well as mobile).
As for the BA-specific units, it's possile. For example you might try converting Reivers into Death Company.

[The Unseen]

I would avoid buying much into the old scale of marines, if you don't want to have to re-update again in a few years.

 

Stuff that's BA specific will be safe a long time, but I wouldn't invest in tactical marines, rhinos, etc, as the Primaris versions are going to be receiving the attention in the future.

 

The Death Company and Sanguinary Guard, along with librarian dreads and such are imo key to our flavor and worth picking up, or even better kit bashing with primaris stuff for the scale.

Dreadnoughts don't look really *wrong* next to Primaris

 

Some other fraters have much more experience running all/mostly primaris, if they don't peek their heads in here eventually I'll be suprised.

 

But commonly I see people running a mix of intercessors and incursors for troops, infiltrators only if your expecting to see and lot of stuff like Genestealer Cults to protect against turn 1 charges.

 

Scouts are *currently* our best troop choice, but if incursors drop a few more points they'll be roughly equal.

[dread05]

About scale, the sanguinary guard are big enough (or at least their legs are stretched enough) that they wont look small next to primaris models. Same counts for the sanguinary priest and the chaplain with the jump pack. Some of the DC legs are long enough and can give you "big" boys but some of them are the normal crouching poses. If you're not interested in jump packs tho, you can always paint some DC intercessors now. Although what was said above is true, shoulder pads, heads and arms are interchangable between primaris and firstborn marines, I got to say that old heads look bigger than primaris helmets and old arms are shorter than primaris arms.

[SnorriSnorrison]

Welcome to the hallowed halls!

 

As a note that with pure Primaris, you’re missing out on a lot of BA specific units and load outs that we can currently field and that have a long history for the feel of the army.

 

Those might come around in future as well, but I’m not entirely certain that all units we use now will make it into the embiggened form. Baal Predators, Heavy flamers on Tactical and Devastator marines, vanguard veterans (used to be a BA specific unit), inferno pistols, etc...

 

Don’t want to deter you from picking up the newer stuff, just some things to keep in mind.

 

Otherwise, incursors are a solid troop choice I’ve been told!

[Beta Helix]

Otherwise, incursors are a solid troop choice I’ve been told!

Thank you, what size units do you recommend for them? Is the haywire mine worth taking?

[Morticon]

 

Otherwise, incursors are a solid troop choice I’ve been told!

Thank you, what size units do you recommend for them? Is the haywire mine worth taking?

 

 

If you're playing ITC rules, then 5.  If not, go 8. 

 

The haywire is a great option for one, smaller unit that will deploy more conservatively and move over an objective.  

[CommDante]

If you're looking to stay all primaris, our chief librarian has recently crossed the rubicon.  I've not had a chance to play with him yet, as I'm guessing he's waiting for me under the christmas tree.  By all accounts he's remained as potent as ever while receiving the increased stats of a primaris marine.  This would give your army a strong psycher and a pinch of that brutal melee combat Blood Angels are known for.

[Beta Helix]

Thanks again for the advice. I'm not super familiar with ITC rules, why does the number of Incursors you recommend change under those rules?

 

Also thank you for the Memphiston suggestion, he's always been one of my favorite characters. I've heard that he's kind of a beast so I'll probably grab him at some point :)

[Jolemai]

It's the secondary missions. One of them is about targeting units with a PL of 7 or greater and as a Marine unit's PL goes up beyond five models, it provides an easy target for points.

 

Nothing to worry about if you don't intend on using these glorified house rules.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Jolemai

[tychobi]

Welcome!

My advice from 20+ years of Warhammer.

 

-buy books for reasons other than rules.

 

-buy models because they look cool and you want to paint them.

 

-cherish your losses as valuable lessons.

 

-customization, kitbashing, scratch building, conversion are integral and important cornerstones of our hobby. Do what feels right for you and respect your opponents need to understand what is what. The rule of cool is always in effect

[Beta Helix]

Thank you :) Mainly my plan is just to get a core army for friendly games of stuff I like and expand later if I want to get super competitive. Right now I just want to get back in the game and start painting.

 

If you'll indulge me a couple more questions, how do you like Aggressors and can you footslog them? Honestly, I just think they look neat.

 

I also understand that the new Psychic Awakening book gives us some abilities that go away if we include detachments from Imperial Guard and such. Does that include other Space Marine detachments from different Chapters or the Deathwatch? Just curious.

[The Unseen]

You can bring a vanilla marine detatchment and you'll lose our super doctrine, Savage Echoes, but keep doctrines. If you bring any other ally save for a single inquisitor, with rules in a recent white dwarf, you lose doctrines.

 

And aggressors, least the boltstorm versions, are very solid.

A 6 man squad supported by a priest for healing/rez and a bannerman, preferably a company ancient for the shoot on death ability, with the Standard of Sacrifice is a very scary brick your opponent has to deal with.

[tychobi]

Agressors with the bolters are ace. Super doctrine is not a sore loss for Blood Angels. In my opinion Blood Angels are the best Space Marine faction for soup (mixed codex) lists. Anything with an Imperial keyword can be your pal! Allied shooting specialists can really round out an aggressive Blood Angels battalion.

[Morticon]

Since you're not tourney focused and just playing locally, a squad of 8 of these babies are legit!! With a few buffs, you're ripping through things. 

[Beta Helix]

Thank you everyone, I really appreciate the great advice. I feel like I'm in a much better place jumping into the game again :)

[Xenith]

To expound on Tychobi's advice, if you buy your models according to rules, then you'll eventually be disappointed and not use them when rules change.

 

If you buy the models you think are cool, you'll always have fun using them.

 

Things like the hammer captain are supereffective in game, but get continually nerfed. Maybe your captain prefers a relic blade or claw instead. 

 

So:

 

1) buy the models you like, convert them to be your own

2) paint them to the best of your ability

3) do awesome stuff with them in games

 

Everyone remembers that time their chaplain beat down a carnifex in combat or stood in front of their army and tanked 200 lasgun shots.

 

No one remembers the time your captain hung back and claimed an objective. 

[Beta Helix]

Thank you, that is good advice. Honestly, I had been warned that all Primaris was not the optimal setup for Blood Angels at this phase, but the reason I want to have an army of them is I think they're cool :) It seems I was fortunate in my timing with the Blood of Baal release, but I'd still be playing Blood Angels and didn't know about that when I started gearing up to play again.

[Neuralshock]

Incursors definitely have the tacti-COOL look, and they function well on the tabletop. I've been having good fun with them.

[Majkhel]

Incursors definitely have the tacti-COOL look, and they function well on the tabletop. I've been having good fun with them.

For me the oversized sights on their bolters look a out of place. Not to mention they seem to have some kind of sights EVERYWHERE :D I prefer the looks of the Infiltrators and will definitely be using their helmeted heads on the Incursors when I get to build my squad.