Crimson Paladin: Suggest home brew stats?

[9x19 Parabellum]

Hello, so I got some Crimson Paladins at Pax Unplugged (because they are awesome).

 

I've asked a couple of my regular gaming buddies if I could use them as a custom unit.   They agreed as long as the rules/points were reasonable.

 

So...how would you go about statting up these guys.

 

Here's what I came up with:

 

Cataphractti Terminators with the following gear alterations:

 

Elite Unit, 5 models.

Encarmine Sword (instead of thunder hammer) and storm-shield.

Assault Cannon on one guy.

Blade of Perdition on sergeant (treat as 2-handed relic blade with additional property of generating 1 mortal wound on 6's to wound).

 

Additionally, the Stormshield and Cataphractii armor would synergize/overlap to produce a heightened affect (like how Cataphractii Captain has stacking effect of Iron Halo and Cata invuln save). 

 

-However, a 2++ is broken, so how would you combine the effects of Stormshield + Cata armor's invuln? (otherwise, they are decidedly worse than an assault termie AND more expensive.  Some ideas I had been thinking of:

 

*Reduce incoming melee attack strength by 1. (this is how it works in 30k, although that's more to ensure they get to roll their 5+++ since it makes thunder-hammer/power-fist attacks str 7 instead of str 8 and thus eliminates the killing blow keyword so they can get a FnP save.

 

*Grants a 5+++

 

*Reroll invlun save of 1's

 

any other thoughts?

 

 

[Xenith]

Ignore up to -2 AP from CC attacks.

 

I think the 8th ed rules are perfect for custom/homebrew units as models and weapons are individually coated. Makes it super easy.

 

The easy route is to not bother with any additional special rules that you cannot assign a point value to.

 

Cataphract terminator base cost

Add storm shield + encarmine sword cost

Add assault cannon cost.

Add relic blade for sergeant.

 

Edit. What would be really cool is counting them as a character for the purposes of giving them the heroic intervention warlord trait for 1CP. Thematic and adds a tiny bit of mobility.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Xenith

[CaptainHelion]

This is the Datasheet I wrote up for an 8th Edition 30k project.

 

Crimson Paladins  - 8 Power

This unit consists of 1 Crimson Exemplar and 2 Crimson Paladins. It can include up to 2 additional Crimson Paladins. (+3 power per model)

• Each model is armed with a Power Weapon and a Coriolis pattern power shield.

 

Model and Weapon Stats

 

UNIT OPTIONS 

• Any Model may exchange their Power Weapon for a Sunset Blade
• A single Crimson Paladin in the squad may exchange their Coriolis power shield for an Illastus Pattern Assault Cannon, a Heavy Flamer, or a Plasma Blaster
• Up to two Crimson Paladins may exchange their Power Weapon for a Power Fist
• The Crimson Exemplar may exchange both their power weapon and Coriolis power shield for a Blade of Perdition
• The Crimson Exemplar may take a grenade harness

Special Rules: Legion Traits

Cataphractii Armour: This unit has a 4+ invulnerable save, but you must halve the result of the dice rolled when determining how far this unit Advances.

Coriolis Pattern Power Shields: Reduce the Strength of all Melee attacks targeting a model with a Coriolis power shield by 1

Teleport Assault: During deployment, you can set up this unit in the teleportarium chamber instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases this unit can perform a teleport assault - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” away from any enemy models.

Legion Elite: This unit can re-roll hit rolls of 1 during the Fight phase.

The Blood is Forever: Roll a d6 each time this unit suffers a wound or a Mortal Wound. On a 6+, the wound is ignored. While this unit is engaged in Melee, and there are at least as many enemy models within 3” as there are in this unit, this ability is changed to ignore a wound on a roll of a 5+. If there are twice as many enemy models within 3” as there are in this unit, this ability is changed to ignore a wound on a roll of a 4+. Models with the Jump Pack, Biker or Terminator keywords counts as two models.

Faction Keywords: <Fealty>, Legiones Astartes, Blood Angels

Keywords: Infantry, Astartes, Terminator, Crimson Paladins

 

The rules document can be found here

Edited December 17, 2019 by CaptainHelion

[Panzer]

Ignore up to -2 AP from CC attacks.

 

 

With a 3++ they already care about AP-1 anyway lol

 

Personally I'd say keep it at the 3++ and see how it works out first before adding some fancy special rule or such.

[9x19 Parabellum]

 

Ignore up to -2 AP from CC attacks.

 

 

With a 3++ they already care about AP-1 anyway lol

 

Personally I'd say keep it at the 3++ and see how it works out first before adding some fancy special rule or such.

 

 

The problem is that a Cataphractii terminator with a 3++ Stormshield is objectively worse than an assault termie with stormshield.  He moves slower, advances slower, and costs more (pound for pound) than an assault termie.

Ignore up to -2 AP from CC attacks.

 

I think the 8th ed rules are perfect for custom/homebrew units as models and weapons are individually coated. Makes it super easy.

 

The easy route is to not bother with any additional special rules that you cannot assign a point value to.

 

Cataphract terminator base cost

Add storm shield + encarmine sword cost

Add assault cannon cost.

Add relic blade for sergeant.

 

Edit. What would be really cool is counting them as a character for the purposes of giving them the heroic intervention warlord trait for 1CP. Thematic and adds a tiny bit of mobility.

 

I like the idea of them being characters. I might have to propose that.

[9x19 Parabellum]

This is the Datasheet I wrote up for an 8th Edition 30k project.

 

Crimson Paladins  - 8 Power

This unit consists of 1 Crimson Exemplar and 2 Crimson Paladins. It can include up to 2 additional Crimson Paladins. (+3 power per model)

• Each model is armed with a Power Weapon and a Coriolis pattern power shield.

 

<snip>

 

UNIT OPTIONS 

• Any Model may exchange their Power Weapon for a Sunset Blade
• A single Crimson Paladin in the squad may exchange their Coriolis power shield for an Illastus Pattern Assault Cannon, a Heavy Flamer, or a Plasma Blaster
• Up to two Crimson Paladins may exchange their Power Weapon for a Power Fist
• The Crimson Exemplar may exchange both their power weapon and Coriolis power shield for a Blade of Perdition
• The Crimson Exemplar may take a grenade harness

Special Rules: Legion Traits

Cataphractii Armour: This unit has a 4+ invulnerable save, but you must halve the result of the dice rolled when determining how far this unit Advances.

Coriolis Pattern Power Shields: Reduce the Strength of all Melee attacks targeting a model with a Coriolis power shield by 1

Teleport Assault: During deployment, you can set up this unit in the teleportarium chamber instead of placing it on the battlefield. At the end of any of your Movement phases this unit can perform a teleport assault - set it up anywhere on the battlefield that is more than 9” away from any enemy models.

Legion Elite: This unit can re-roll hit rolls of 1 during the Fight phase.

The Blood is Forever: Roll a d6 each time this unit suffers a wound or a Mortal Wound. On a 6+, the wound is ignored. While this unit is engaged in Melee, and there are at least as many enemy models within 3” as there are in this unit, this ability is changed to ignore a wound on a roll of a 5+. If there are twice as many enemy models within 3” as there are in this unit, this ability is changed to ignore a wound on a roll of a 4+. Models with the Jump Pack, Biker or Terminator keywords counts as two models.

Faction Keywords: <Fealty>, Legiones Astartes, Blood Angels

Keywords: Infantry, Astartes, Terminator, Crimson Paladins

 

The rules document can be found here

 

I think the combination of the Coriolis Stormshield, and Blood is forever is a bit too much. 3++, reduce strength by 1, followed by (up to) a 4+++ is a little crazy.  it works a little better in 30k where models only have 1 wound and the damage chart wounds on "2" earlier, I think.

 

Also what do you think about encarmine swords instead of power swords?  1 damage on a super-elite seems flimsy...they don't have the volume of attacks to make a a 1 D weapon really work.  And....the swords (on the models) are huge compared to power swords. They are actually longer than the sanguinary guard swords. 

[Indefragable]

It's hard to convert them to 8th ed in my opinion since their HH profile is so all over the place.

[Damon Nightman]

I hope you had a good time at PAX! Hopefully I'll be able to make it next year.

 

I think encarmine swords for sure. You're right about the 1 damage being too little for such a unit.

[CaptainHelion]

Parabellum, the Coriolis Power Shields are just the -1 to Melee strength, so they've got the 4++ from Cataphrachtii armour, but not a 3++. The Ignores Damage also only increases if you're in combat. I do agree with the weapon stuff, though. If I weren't doing a straight HH30k to 8th ed 30k conversion, doing something with the power weapons would be high on the list.

[9x19 Parabellum]

Parabellum, the Coriolis Power Shields are just the -1 to Melee strength, so they've got the 4++ from Cataphrachtii armour, but not a 3++. The Ignores Damage also only increases if you're in combat. I do agree with the weapon stuff, though. If I weren't doing a straight HH30k to 8th ed 30k conversion, doing something with the power weapons would be high on the list.

 

Thanks man that's good to know!

[CaptainHelion]

No worries! I probably shoulda mentioned it in the original post that they were just straight conversions XD. The idea was entirely about matching intent and function across the two systems, rather than making a Cool Unit What Does Cool Stuff And I Think Is Cool