(Pics in Thread) Batrep Skorpius Test?

[Prot]

So tonight I have a random match up game.

 

And I know I have not been near as hot on the Skorpius as some people. It's not the cost... it's the fragility, killing power, and range that bug me. And unless I'm actually going to a tournament I don't play ITC missions for fun.... so killing engineers is not a thing.

 

But tonight I am going all the way with the idea. Three Skorpius', and Two Dunestriders (with 2 different Priest units embarked).

 

I am adding a KNight detachment with a Preceptor and two Armigers. This is my go to for a 'light' Knight detachment. Flexible enough to make a dent, but not so potent that a player will be consumed with destroying them.

 

I've discovered over the course of the year, and the evolution of 40K that a few things have changed with me and Admech:

 

- The plethora of characters filling 'gaps' really bugs me. I don't want to take Cawl, Daedelousus, Manipulus all in one list, but I am. The characters are all subsceptible to early, untimely death considering the new anticharacter meta.

 

- I've kind of cashed out on the whole Vigilus Defiant Admech stuff. I used to use a big squad of Destroyers all the time, with the Servitor recycling trick. I think it's too inflexible, and the TFC spam/indirect fire is just too easy to rip these guys apart.

 

- I've given up on Kastellans for now. I don't think they're terrible but they really feel their age now. CP hungry, no damage, the 'cost' of not moving, too easy to tap in CC... etc, etc. Which is sad because I really like the premise of the unit.

 

Don't get me wrong I still think Kastelans can work, but it's very match up dependent now. When they work ,they work wonders, when they don't, it's usually horrific. They're too expensive (in my mind) to be that swingy and dependent on CP/Strats.

 

 

 

So this game I will not be going full blown Admech, but I will be trying the full compliment of Skorpius along with the plethora of typical Admech support characters, and Knights. 

 

We'll see how it goes!

Edited December 23, 2019 by Prot

[Charlo]

Eagerly awaiting your results dude!

[Burni]

Will be watching with interest.

 

I’m an extremely casual player and only play beer and pretzels style but I’ve been moving away from Kastelans recently too, they just cost too much.

 

I don’t have a huge collection but have been having fun with Vanguard and some Corpuscari. Getting my first Skorpius on the 25th so can’t wait to hear how a veteran player uses them. You do the Machine God’s work as usual Prot!

[Prot]

Thanks. I will say this is one army I return to over and over. Since 7th Edition it’s been my only non marine army since dabbling in Eldar.

 

The thing is I’ll do alright and then hit that magic bullet match up that I feel powerless against.... for instance no other army I have struggles as much as these guys against GSC.

 

So when the Skorpius came out I was all over it, but I still got out shot and put maneuvered by Orks and quite frankly Tau had no problem with triple Riptide tearing chunks out of the army.

 

What I haven’t done is put 3 of these in a list with the forward moving Preists in Transports.

 

I have no idea what I’m facing. I’ll let you guys know how it goes.

[Prot]

Well.... what a game guys.

 

I’m on a phone so can’t post pics but I did say I would report back ASAP.

 

The list basically stayed the same. I had concerns that I also mentioned. I decided to fill some of that gap with Greyfax. I just love her model and background.

 

The game was against Orks. No Lootas, no tank bustas. But two shock attack guns including the relic. Also a Morkanaught and Gorkanaught, with a set of killa Kans and a pair of dreads in reserve. This was using the Vigilus ablaze double firing power.

 

He still had points for a large amount of bodies and three Smasha Guns hidden amongst Grots way back with the shock attack guns.

 

Dawn of war deployment and in Maelstrom (CA19), I got to go first.

 

The very thing I hate about the Skorpius’, Preceptor. And Onager ( I never took an Onager in this game though) all came to a head in turn 1 AND 2.

 

And that is my grand nemesis RNG. I rolled a 1, 1, 2 for the D6 missiles on the three Skorps in turn 1. My Preceptor did not want to get too close and couldn’t fire high intensity anyway. So I kept it back, and rolled a 1 and 2 for the 2D6 low intensity blast.

 

That all fired at the Morkanaught. I caused 2 total damage.

 

I then put the final melta lance shots into the Morkanaught needing luck to turn. The Preceptor rerolls helped but no wounds got through. I even through the Helverin at him and did zero. My seconda4y firepower on the Skorpius went into Smasha Guns. I killed 2. Thank the omnissiah the turn was not a complete fail.

 

Did I tell you my months long gripe with the Skorps are RNG dependencies? Yea, I think I did.

 

Anyway his first AND second turns, the relic Shock attack gun goes Uber on him. Do you know what that means? It literally means that every HIT he rolls does D3 mortal wounds on top of the resulting damage! ( that’s D6 damage per unsaved wound as well).

 

That means he targeted the closest Warglaive with melta, had 11shots! Did 13 mortal wounds to it before rolling any damage!

In turn 2 he did the same thing to a Skorpius Dunerider. I tried to convince him to shoot a Skorpius tank instead, but he didn’t.

 

Just to reiterate, I told him if in his turn he had targeted my Preceptor, he would have one shotted it with the single shock attack gun.

 

My turn 2 was as bad as my turn 1. I could feel my opponent’s sympathy from across the table. While I appreciate the sentiments it really bugged me how poorly it was going. That said I had ridiculous good luck keeping my last Knight model the Heverin alive in t2. He survived stupid amounts of firepower with one wound saving my army a massive headache.

 

My Skorpius’ were very good at thinning out the hordes and Smasha Guns, but that’s it. I struggled fantastically at wounding his T8 stuff. A lucky mega smite delivering 5 wounds from Greyfax to the Gorkanought would save me. The wounded Preceptor acted on the top line for 1 CP and survived for one more push and killed the Morkanaught to give me a chance before succumbing to a warboss Fist.

 

My Preceptor blew up, and I had saved 3 CP to save him and 1 CP for the reroll so I did not feel comfortable rerolling the explosion. Instead I calculated I may get more out of the explosion over resurrection. This turned out to be true. Doing mortals to dreads, cans and the warboss.

 

Cawl got away very lucky. 2 separate charges from 2 deepstriking dreads ( Bad moons add 1 to charge AND reroll). They failed both charges AND both rerolls.

 

He desperately charged his wounded warboss alone from 6 “.... Cawls Mega gun evaporated him in overwatch.

 

My Discosticks did nothing and were wiped by a very beaten up mob of boys. The jazz hands really didn’t do anything. The 3 Ranger sniper guns caused zero wounds on Five combined shots in three turns on the relic Shokk gun.

 

Somehow I had a narrow 2 point victory at end of T5. Amazing.

 

Btw! New Maelstrom is awesome and quite playable now competitively imo. I’ve had 10 great games with it since the update.

[Gaz1858]

Well done on the win!

 

I too find the Scorpius to be a good tank but by no means as killer as its reputation seems to say. Far too many games where ive had the same luck as you and did nothing or not enough.

[Prot]

That’s really it in a nutshell. Sure there are games where you’re going to hit the D6 shots and the D3 shots like nobody’s business but the opposite is also true and the ability for a huge swing is just too huge. Even in averaging it out we’re talking S6 to S7 with -1 to -2 AP.

 

I think it’s a good tank but never have I felt this tank is a must if you want to compete overall.

 

Maybe it’s biggest selling point is the indirect fire for an army that moves as slow as AdMech.

[brother_b]

That’s really it in a nutshell. Sure there are games where you’re going to hit the D6 shots and the D3 shots like nobody’s business but the opposite is also true and the ability for a huge swing is just too huge. Even in averaging it out we’re talking S6 to S7 with -1 to -2 AP.

 

I think it’s a good tank but never have I felt this tank is a must if you want to compete overall.

 

Maybe it’s biggest selling point is the indirect fire for an army that moves as slow as AdMech.

 

That's the only reason I'm building one of the Skorpius, for the indirect fire. I've heard, over and again, how the Icarus and Skorpius are better than Neutronagers in the long run. It hasn't been true for me (haven't tried Skorpius but have run the Icarus).

 

I'm not sure, I am still excited and can't wait to try it out. Good report, and glad you won.

[Gaz1858]

That’s really it in a nutshell. Sure there are games where you’re going to hit the D6 shots and the D3 shots like nobody’s business but the opposite is also true and the ability for a huge swing is just too huge. Even in averaging it out we’re talking S6 to S7 with -1 to -2 AP.

 

I think it’s a good tank but never have I felt this tank is a must if you want to compete overall.

 

Maybe it’s biggest selling point is the indirect fire for an army that moves as slow as AdMech.

I will pick on the slow bit here as admech can be a very mobile army. All units can move and shoot without penalty except the bots and for 1cp they can to. Thats a whole army of move shoot and rerolls with cawl.

 

Yes we dont necessarily want to be close but admech isnt a slow army. Its just played that way

[Xisor]

 

That’s really it in a nutshell. Sure there are games where you’re going to hit the D6 shots and the D3 shots like nobody’s business but the opposite is also true and the ability for a huge swing is just too huge. Even in averaging it out we’re talking S6 to S7 with -1 to -2 AP.

 

I think it’s a good tank but never have I felt this tank is a must if you want to compete overall.

 

Maybe it’s biggest selling point is the indirect fire for an army that moves as slow as AdMech.

I will pick on the slow bit here as admech can be a very mobile army. All units can move and shoot without penalty except the bots and for 1cp they can to. Thats a whole army of move shoot and rerolls with cawl.

 

Yes we dont necessarily want to be close but admech isnt a slow army. Its just played that way

You've described a non-stationary army, not a non-slow army.

[Prot]

Well just personally if I'm comparing AM to all the armies I face regularly they are 'slower' than every one of them except Necrons.

That said... it's inconsequential for the experiment really. The goal was to overload on the unit and see how it does.

I think my opponent had me against the wall, and I hate to say this but his target priority was probably what won me the game... plus the clutch Smite, the exploding Knight in his zone, and my ridiculous overwatch luck.

There is always this giant fear with those Skorpius boxes that they will get tapped in CC and that's it. It's really hard to have enough CC counter punch to effectively free 'trapped' boxes yet still have the points for doing what you do best.

The Skorpius did come out looking good against spammy units though. That I will definitely say. However for all around effectiveness... that Helverin still shines with a flat 3 Damage on that many shots. Sure it's only -1 AP and S7, but that's about as good as my particular list had (Skorpius truly lacks the strength and AP, but it's an elite killer.)

I think we're seeing hordes go away thanks to marines. While marines are big, the Skorpius with Belerose will have a role for sure.

Some Pictures:

- I try to box up with some LOS blocking terrain, and have first turn.

- The great standoff.

(I had to proxy some of the Skorpius with left over Chaos stuff. )

This was the end of my T1 I think. Here is the part where I realized not having S8 or S9 was going to be a real problem.

-End game from the Ork's perspective. He deepstriked these late game, but it's all he had to hold the middle.

Edited December 23, 2019 by Prot

[Black Knight]

Thanks for the Batrep Prot, are you finding the 12" range of the Jazz Hand Priests worth the loss of the staying power that the staff version get when they kill something?

[Prot]

Thanks for reading it. Actually I’m using one squad of each.

 

In every match up it becomes apparent which squad is the better matchup so I stagger their position accordingly. I like the flexibility though and I have to admit the Transports are making me competitive in the new Maelstrom games.

 

Honestly I admit I am having a lot of difficulty with T8 in this list but I don’t believe there is a fix for that and I stopped using my Onagers months ago.

[Gaz1858]

Ive found I struggle with T8. Its just weight of fire and Wrath of Mars as my solution lol

[Black Knight]

The Onagers are supposed to be the response to T8 but are swingy, I still take mine but understand the reluctance. Hopefully when we get our V2 Codex next year sometime it will get the Executioner treatment and either get Heavy 3 or the double shot treatment, although double shooting Arrays may be broken. That and do not give us squadrons I am quite happy with the model count right now.

 

Stop with the price cuts GW, time to fix the issues!

[brother_b]

Well put. When everything drops in price the same problems remain, you may have more glorious servants of the Omnissiah but our enemy also has more! Edited December 25, 2019 by brother_b

[Prot]

Agreed. Point cuts are okay for some things but you look at a Nuetron laser at the beginning of 8th compared to now... it’s slipped a lot.

 

I can say that the jazz hands and other infantry I ran used to die so quickly and these Transports are really gubpving me more mileage than I thought I would. I never really liked the drill as an idea. I know it works, I just try not to use Forgeworld if I can help it.

 

The Skorpius tanks are solid, middle ground pounders. But you still find a huge gap in that superheavy or anti tank duty. Also without fly we have to be super aware of getting boxed in.

[Magos Takatus]

Also without fly we have to be super aware of getting boxed in.

It can't be long now, right? Unless the rules are absolutely unforgivably bad we will soon see that hole in our list patched up. :)

 

I think I'd need more Skorpius chassis vehicles in my army, on transport, one Disintegrator  and a pair of Onagers probably isn't enough of a fire base in 40k these days. Saying that, I should probably stop being an armchair general and actually roll some dice for once. At least you guys are getting some games under your belts. :D

[Black Knight]

Dum de dumde dum Flash! OHHOHH He'll save everyone of us! We are definetly getting Flash Gorden Bird Men!

 

I still have to figure out our new flier, I have never truly used one in an army before, even my Corvus has never been used. I am hoping that the twin Las-Cannon/bombs will be enough as we have so many sources of stubbers and Phosphor already.

 

Our Skorpius is kind of like a Leman Russ in firepower, now we just need the Dunecrawler to be a Baneblade.

[Prot]

I've had a few more games, and a break on Christmas, but back at it tonight. Again I don't know the opponent, but I just wanted to say after this time of experimentation I feel like I know what the real difference maker is...

 

It's the Transport. The Skorpius Disintegrator is good, but it's secondary. 

 

Someone made a post a while ago in a thread where we were weighing the ups and downs of the new Chassis and its variants. This person said something that stuck with me... something to the effect of it changing the playstyle and that's what was working in ITC at least. 

 

It's true. It's the realization I've come to; however, I don't include the drill in that category. It may have its uses but it's not the same thing. 

 

In my games what I've found is I can push back, create a bit of space and use some of the infantry choices that have literally been locked out because they are so easily defeated/deleted by the hard hitting armies of today.

 

The Dunerider is the difference maker IMO. I say that but I haven't faced the ugliest of armies yet.

[Gaz1858]

Its definitely a good point. You need to be able to grab and hold Obj in ITC. Dunerider lets you do that and 12 S4 shots is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Im a more aggressive player so I scout the Dunerider forward with Priests but just using them as mobile troop bunkers is just as valid.

 

As a wee upside. I played against Necrons, scouted a Dunerider forward with cryptek as closest unit. Took 3 of its 4 wounds off with the Shooting then charged in with the Dunerider, popped the +2 to hit in combat strat and killed him lol

[Black Knight]

The one thing I thought about when I was looking at a transport filled with priests earlier in the week was whether to take a single priest out and put in a HQ of some sort. I wanted to put in a Dominus until I remembered the re-roll doesn't work in combat so decided it might be worth a CP to add the mask to an Engineseer. We really do need a combat HQ.

 

Its like the Knight Preceptor again as I am not sure how many Priests you need before the re-roll 1s makes a difference compared to the extra priest model.

[Xisor]

@Black_Knight, I'm fond - conceptually at least - of getting a Prime Hermeticon Manipulus in there with Anzion's pseudogenetor.

 

Strictly, that one is intended to run along as support for my punchy Kastellans, but conceivably works well besides Fulgurites too. The Prime Hermeticon aura is the key, though the boost movement ability can help in a pinch too.

 

The relic just means an extra 2d6 piddly attacks too - not amazing, but could be handy in ensuring a unit actually is killable for the priests.

[Prot]

Well guys it worked again. This time against a Necron list with the dusk Doomsday Arks, destroyers ( teleported by Flyer)and a gob of infantry flanked by sword and Board dudes ( lychguard?) and a ctan.  
 

I got first turn and actually insisted my opponent take it, but he refused. I hit him so hard in T1. I felt really bad about it. My list seemed made to carve his in half. I had gobs of ani infantry weaponry at 36”.  I got 1 doomsday ark. This guy was aware enough to know he should ignore the Preceptor so of course I get 11 shots off and melt that Flyer causing his destroyers to auto appear too soon. The Indirect fire was the perfect weapon to take most of the destroyers down. 
 

he scored very well but it was forgone that I would be able to hold out. He did kill off my Priest units really easily but they had already done their job and were expendable at that point. 

[Burni]

Thanks for the detailed analysis Prot.

 

Interesting about the Dunerider. Just built mine as the indirect fire Disintegrator but going to grab more in the new year, so a couple will definitely be transports.

 

I’m hoping next weekend’s open day will bring clarity on if we are getting new units and codex update or just the flyer. That will help me plan out my AdMech expansion to go along with the Skorpius’