Maximizing miracle dice

[brother carc]

I love the miracle dice mechanic. It can make for some very clutch saves at just the right moments, and narratively I think it suits the sisters perfectly

 

But I was thinking...

 

What if we took this mechanic as far as we could, so that we were generating as many miracle dice as possible and activating acts of faith as frequently as possible

 

Now there are multiple uses for acts of faith but the one that ultimately stands out to me is damage rolls. For three reasons. It might not swing the game the way landing an 11” charge might but:

1) it’ll typically come up more frequently than most of the others

2) it happens after there’s much chance to mitigate it.

3) it’s demoralising. From the few games I’ve played with the codex so far my opponents hate it when I have a 6 in my miracle dice pool, because they know that any failed save from my exorcists could be a guaranteed 6 damage.

 

So here is a proposed vanguard detachment to attempt to maximize acts of faith

 

Triumph of Saint Katherine

Imagifier/Canoness - warlord trait - beacon of faith, relic: litanies of faith

Exorcist

Exorcist

10 man Retributor squad with 4/multimeltas. 2 armorium cherubs and simulacrum imperialis

Battle Sanctum

 

823 points

 

So for a little over 800 points this detachment generates 2 miracle dice per battle round, 2 at the start of your turn and 1 at the start of your opponents turn and it can reroll one miracle dice per turn. (So five per battle round)

 

It can also push through THREE acts of faith per turn, all of which it can bump up (or down) by 1 if needed. With some half-decent luck this can turn your exorcists and Retributors into save or die weapons. It’s also incredibly easy to transform into a battalion

 

I’m not sure which order best suits this strategy but here are some noticeable ones

Valorous Heart - ignoring AP-2 and getting a 6+++ shrug is always golden

Sacred Rose - ending up with ~50% more miracle dice than other sisters is obviously a benefit when you’re looking to spam acts of faith

Ebon Chalice - gives you easy ways to get 6’s on your miracle dice. Can easily start the battle with three 6’s waiting to be dumped on acts of faith

 

What do you think B&C? Is there an obvious weak link in this plan? Can it be improved?

[Atrus]

At a glance, Retributors can't take Simulcrum imperialis, only the armory cherub.

 

Unless GW FAQs the MD to be the multiple dice interpretation, I personally don't see much point in committing to MD batteries or even investing in a Dialogus.

 

That said, as a MD battery, this seems to look fine. Needless to say that the Triumph will be hiding out of sight in cover as that will die fast to anything with more than 2 strength. It's going to be punished by anything that can shoot out of los.

[brother carc]

Retributors can take simulacrum imperialis. They can’t take incensor cherubs.

 

What puts you off MD batteries that you think would be changed by the multiple dice interpretation?

[Sword Brother Adelard]

A useful tip to maximise MD I read was to always take your morale tests, even if you can't fail them. Every test is a chance to roll a one.

[brother carc]

Well if your store/game community allows legends you can always use arch confessor Kryinov, who allows you to roll an extra dice on a morale test.

 

Combined with the light of the emperor sacred rite that gives you something like a 42% chance of picking up a miracle dice every time you take a morale test

[Atrus]

Retributors can take simulacrum imperialis. They can’t take incensor cherubs.

 

What puts you off MD batteries that you think would be changed by the multiple dice interpretation?

Ah yes, that's right. Sorry, got myself confused.

 

If it turn out to be the single die interpretation, then I don't see any point in making a battery for a situation that's only going to come up once or twice a turn.

Multiple dice on the other hand, the situation will still only come up once or twice a turn but then extra dice can actually be used and the battery comes into play.

 

Unless of course you're going to be spamming out the strats to modify rolls and other stuff by expending MD in which case it makes sense.

 

I dunno, I haven't had a chance to play yet so I'm still yet to see for myself how all this stuff pans out. From a current unplayed perspective, it seems a little meh. Hoping a couple games changes my tune.

[brother carc]

Ah yes, that's right. Sorry, got myself confused.

If it turn out to be the single die interpretation, then I don't see any point in making a battery for a situation that's only going to come up once or twice a turn.

Multiple dice on the other hand, the situation will still only come up once or twice a turn but then extra dice can actually be used and the battery comes into play.

Unless of course you're going to be spamming out the strats to modify rolls and other stuff by expending MD in which case it makes sense.

I dunno, I haven't had a chance to play yet so I'm still yet to see for myself how all this stuff pans out. From a current unplayed perspective, it seems a little meh. Hoping a couple games changes my tune.

From the games I’ve played so far I think you’re always going to have enough opportunities to spend your miracle dice, regardless of how consistent your battery is. Advances, charges, important saves... there’s plenty of chances to spend the dice.

 

What I think we have to do is make those chances as scary, and consistent, as possible. Let’s say you have 1, 3, 5 and 6

1) Seraphim dropping in the movement phase, drop a high dice, hopefully kill a tank and get another dice back

2) exorcist 1, use the 5 and modify up to a 6

3) exorcist 2, modify the 3 up to a 4

4) Retributors, leave the 1 for morale, roll damage normally, hopefully kill off another unit, get a dice back

 

Basically every time an opponent fails an invulnerable he/she should be thinking “what if the sisters just miracle through max damage?”

 

I’ve already seen opponents command reroll results just because they know I have a 6 in my pool

Edited December 28, 2019 by brother carc

[ERJAK]

Battle sanctum takes up it's own detachment slot. To take it AND a vanguard is CP suicide at 800pts+ total.

 

If you're going to make an MD battery, make an MD battery:

 

Ooml battalion

 

Triumph 185

Canoness inferno pistol+null rod 60

3xBSSsquads with 2X stormbolters 147

2xdominions with 4SB 116

3x4 Repentia 156

1x Imagifier Warrior

1xmistress 35

 

+Fortification detachment

 

Sanctum 50

 

For 794 points you now get 4 extra CP and WAY more miracle dice while also having a very aggressive distraction carnifex in your quick moving repentia and dominions. You could even count it as being only 606pts as the triumph is not beholden to anything here.

 

It's hard to say exactly how many dice you'll get from this but it's going to add up to quite a few over the course of a game.

 

They choose to ignore it and get blessed bolts dominions and warrior buffed repentia in their back lines. Choose to kill it and they could give you an extra half dozen dice per turn for 2-3 turns. One dead unit of repentia is two dice by itself. Try to blunt it with 'spare shots' and you strengthen what remains and risk giving additional dice through morale anyway. The null rod even makes it a threat in the psychic phase.

 

You're also free to spread your relics/warlord traits around so they're not on suicide units.

 

With 1306 points left you can now make a reasonable brigade, using convictions better suited to SPENDING miracle dice. The battalion is even very flexible in contributing here as well. Taking Valorous heart and need more points to feed the forge? If pressed you CAN cut things with the detachment still able to do its job. Bloody Rose? Move the repentia to the brigade and clean house. Running argent shroud? Move the dominions over there, fill up these slots with seraphim. Don't have to worry about crowded fast attack anymore. OoML? Obviously a perfect match.

 

If you want to focus on using and generating as many dice as possible, combine this with Argent shroud. Actually being able to get some value out of melta BSS with Simulacrum means they can use a blistering number of dice per turn, effectively.

Edited December 29, 2019 by ERJAK

[brother carc]

Ok well to be clear, making it a vanguard detachment was simply an exercise of “how small can I make the core of this battery?”

 

What I would most likely do if I was playing this detachment is simply add 3 x BSS and an extra HQ to make it a battalion.

 

 

With that said, I think you are misunderstanding how miracle dice are generated. To quote the relevant rule sections:

“You gain one at the end of a phase if one or more of the following conditions are met one or more times during that phase”

 

And for Order of Our Martyred Lady:

“Gain one Miracle dice at the end of any phase in which any units with this conviction were destroyed.”

 

As you can see, unfortunately MD generation is capped at a max of one per phase, with the notable exceptions of Repentia dying getting you an automatic extra dice and OOML being able to generate two in one phase (losing a character and a unit)

 

So if you want an effective battery you need as many of you can of the following

1) effects and relics that generate MD

2) ability to kill units in multiple different phases of the game

3) strong psychic defence

4) Morale shenanigans

5) either Sacred Rose or OOML

 

Now of these 5 the options I would choose to focus on are the first 2, because they are much more under your control. Having strong psychic defence would be useless against many opponents, morale shenanigans require you to take casualties and SR and OOML both come with an opportunity cost.

 

Important units to highlight for number 2 above are:

- seraphim can kill units in the movement phase when they drop

- immolators can auto-explode in enemy phases

- any unit using the spirit of the martyr ability can kill something in an enemy phase

- anything with flamers and/or SR celestians are fantastic at killing things in overwatch

 

At the end of the day I think Sacred Rose are always going to be the best for generating miracle dice, but I’m still not sure if it’s enough to use them over the other orders

[Purifying Tempest]

I've played with Beacon + proxied Sanctum and it yields a pretty good boost to MD.  That has usually been sufficient to do the deed, for me.  Sanctum works well has a vantage point for the Retributors, so they are more of a natural pairing.  Beacon goes on my Rod of Office Canoness standing beside my Imagifier to give out 9" auras.  I run all of this in Valorous Heart, and it has worked fairly well... there were times I was hungering (greedy) for extra MD, and there's times I have an excess of them.  Overall, though, I've not been totally dry of usable MD during a time of need.

 

If I were going to maximize them?  Oh my.

 

First, I would play Sacred Rose or MSU Our Martyred Lady.

Second, I would have a plan on how to cheap them as close to "once per phase" as possible: Retributors, Zephyrim, Seraphim (deadly descent)

Third, evaluate the different extra sources of MD (Beacon of Faith, Battle Sanctum, Triumph of Saint Katherine, pretty much in that order).

And finally, don't forget there are ways to get extra MD via Stratagems like Martyrdom (Geminae and supporting characters, though anything other than Geminae is an expensive proposition and probably models that aren't best used by throwing them away at enemy fire).

 

I think a list like that though is going to struggle in more core aspect of the game, since it is so slanted towards maximizing the miracle dice mini-game.  If things go well, the MD will definitely start stacking up in the "win more" column.  If things don't go well, you're going to have tons of MD but no real threats to present with them (there are inherent limits to how many you can spend meaningfully in a turn).  I think this would definitely slide into: I use my 5s and 6s on key rolls, but have a FLOOD of 3s-4s, and maybe even 2s, that I just cannot use practically.

 

It's probably a better exercise to understand how to generate miracle dice, and then draw from those concepts and match it to your army (Valorous Heart castle + Battle Sanctum for example).  Add it in as an accent as opposed to a core concept.

[brother carc]

Ok then how about this, and as I write it I understand that this is maybe a tiny bit sketchy...

 

Canoness Recycle Bin

Warlord trait - light of the emperor

Blessed blade

Relic - Iron surplice of Saint Istaela/ Nothing

 

So the idea behind this character is essentially to upcycle all of your rubbish Miracle Dice. It works especially well if she is paired with the Triumph

 

So her warlord trait says:

“When you perform an Act of Faith for this Warlord, gain one miracle dice.

 

Movement phase - Don’t need to advance? Use your useless 2 on the MD and replace it with something else

Assault phase - is she 12” away from a unit with no real shooting? Use your 1 to auto fail a charge

Enemy psychic phase - your opponent just got a double 6 perils? Why not attempt to deny it with the 3 you don’t need

Enemy charge phase - her bolt pistol probably won’t hit on overwatch so just accept it and get a new dice

Edited December 29, 2019 by brother carc

[Purifying Tempest]

That's definitely a creative way to force out some of the lower dice.  Don't forget to bring the Litanies of Faith as well, a re-roll of a MD is a handy thing to try to fish up some of those higher rolls.  Doesn't seem like a overwhelming investment, either, but you are using an Order that isn't defined by much other than their access to MD and favor for bolt weapons (rules wise).

 

Can also trade 1 CP pregame for an extra warlord trait and bring Beacon of Faith, as well, since recycling miracle dice doesn't necessarily help you generate new ones to try to recycle.  You'll need to generate MD, and then use your recycling canoness to cycle through them until they're a value that you appreciate.