Is this legal?

[Skywrath]

I have a Deathwing squad of 5 in the following loudouts:

 

-Deathwing Terminator with Plasma Cannon/Power Fist

-Deathwing Terminator with a pair of Lightning Claws

-Deathwing Terminator with a Stormbolter/Chainfist

-Deathwing Terminator (Ancient) with Power Fist/Storm-bolter

-Deathwing Terminator (Champion) with a Halberd of Caliban

 

My queries are as follows:

 

1. Due to the limitations of Heavy Weapons in a squad (1 per squad of 5), does the Halberd of Caliban count as one, therefore disqualifying the squad? (I checked the rules, but it said it was a MELEE weapon, but nothing about it being heavy, this is more for the sake of being thorough). 

 

2. Are Ancients/Champions allowed to be in the same squad?

 

3. General viability of the Deathwing Champion?

 

4. General compatibility with the other elements of the squad?

 

As always, thank you in advance :)

[G8Keeper]

I'm afraid the ancient and champion are now characters (elites). You'll need to swap them out with regular guys to make that squad legal

[Skywrath]

I'm afraid the ancient and champion are now characters (elites). You'll need to swap them out with regular guys to make that squad legal .

 

Heavy weapons in a DW squad are:

 

Plasma Cannon

Assault Cannon

Cyclone Missile Launcher

Heavy Flamer

 

Those are the weapons with limits aside from only the sergeant being able to take a power sword (plus probably a few other bits I can't quite remember).

 

So replace the ancient and keep the champion, then it's all good? What about weapon choice (halberd etc)? 

Edited January 1, 2020 by Skywrath

[UtariOnzo]

No, the champion is a character as well, so you need to add in two more. The halberd is champion only

[Skywrath]

No, the champion is a character as well, so you need to add in two more. The halberd is champion only

 

Lovely.. already glued the halberd on him. How can I make him "legal"? 

[Neuralshock]

I'm concerned that you're not understanding us, friend. Characters are their own separate unit more and can't be included in a squad of any kind. Look at the data sheet and you'll see the "character" keyword.

 

As far as this goes you'll need to have 2 more regular DW terminators with SB/PF or whatever else is stated in the DW terminators wargear section. A squad can only have one heavy weapon per 5 dudes, you can find what qualifies as a heavy weapon in the codex under "Terminator heavy weapons" list.

 

Unless you wanted to pop off the halberd from your champion, you should keep him as he is, he could be useful in the near future

Edited January 1, 2020 by Neuralshock

[Grimdark_Garage]

Get the codex or Battlescribe.

 

Deathwing Terminators have 1 sergeant and 4 Terminators

Deathwing champion is an entirely separate unit

Deathwing ancient is an entirely separate unit

 

If you want to field them all, that's 7 models and 3 separate units

 

See codex or Battlescribe for wargear

[Skywrath]

I'm concerned that you're not understanding us, friend. Characters are their own separate unit more and can't be included in a squad of any kind. Look at the data sheet and you'll see the "character" keyword.

 

As far as this goes you'll need to have 2 more regular DW terminators with SB/PF or whatever else is stated in the DW terminators wargear section. A squad can only have one heavy weapon per 5 dudes, you can find what qualifies as a heavy weapon in the codex under "Terminator heavy weapons" list.

 

Unless you wanted to pop off the halberd from your champion, you should keep him as he is, he could be useful in the near future

 

I think I understood you quite clearly enough. However, that being said, can I combine that squad with my existing squad of 5 deathwing knights?

 

By the way, I pulled the banner off my ancient (as I already have a primaris ancient), so that means I have 9 terminators. (4 regular terminators, 5 as knights). I have full intentions to keep the champion intact - looks like him and my knight-master are going to have competitions who will take more fallen heretics.

Edited January 1, 2020 by Skywrath

[Grimdark_Garage]

Only if you counted your Knight models as normal Terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields.

Knight wargear is concrete. Terminators have more options.

[Skywrath]

Only if you counted your Knight models as normal Terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields.

Knight wargear is concrete. Terminators have more options.

 

Which would be a negative.. that is unfortunate. Thank you for your input. 

[Berzul]

Yeah.

 

Just to help clear up any confusion.

 

What you have here are four UNITs.

 

- Deathwing Terminators

- Deathwing Knights

- Deathwing Ancient

- Deathwing Champion

 

Each unit exists and acts independant from other units. Each unit moves, shoots, fights and flees as a whole, but acts seperately from each other unit.

 

A unit cannot join another. They can stand next to each other, move the same way, attack the same targets... But each one acts on its own.

 

Now, some units are squads, some are characters. The Terminators and the Knights are composed as squads, while the Ancient and Champion are characters.

 

Squads have a number of models from 1 to whatever the rules allow. These two squads are 5-man strong to start when you first add them to a list, and can add up to 5 more models.

 

Squads can ONLY add models of the same unit. You cannot mix and match.

 

So, you get a squad of 5 terminator, and you can add up to 5 more. But you can only add Deathwing Terminators, not Deathwing Knights.

 

Same with the Deathwing Knights. They start at 5, and you can add up to 5 more knights, but you cannot add Deathwing Terminators.

 

Characters are special in the sense that each character is ONE model, and that model IS the entire unit. They are solo heroes. Individual people in your army.

 

Thede guys, again, act on their own, amd cannot join other units or be joined into by them. The character can act next to a unit, but it will never be a part of that unit.

 

All that being said, lets talk about PROXY.

 

Some players with a casual approach will not make a fussnout of you using one model to represent another. For instance, using a Deathwing Knight (with his Mace of Absolution and Storm Shield), inside a Deathwing Terminator Squad (which is not possible legally), to proxy (or count as) a Deathwing Terminator with a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield.

 

But, the proxy model follows thw rules of the model it is supposed to be, not what the plastic actually shows. So, using a Knight as a Proxy for a Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield Terminator does not mean you have a Knight in the squad. The rules apply as if the model was not a knight, but rather what you say the model is.

 

 

Finally, about the Champion, he is good, yeah. Specially after the points drop. He still is too costly for my taste, but in low point games I have managed to do some SERIOUS damage with him.

[ValourousHeart]

 

No, the champion is a character as well, so you need to add in two more. The halberd is champion only

 

Lovely.. already glued the halberd on him. How can I make him "legal"? 

 

I think others have spelled this out the rules well enough.

 

However this hobby has an artistic aspect to it as well... and as such some of the best looking conversions you can find online are made with bits that make the model illegal with a strict reading of the rules.

 

With that in mind the DW sarg can have a sword and stormbolter, 2 lightning claws or a TH/SS.

Or at least items that function as such in game, even if they might look odd.

 

So if you like the look of the Halberd, and want the model to count as your DW Sarg, then all you need to do is add a storm shield to the model, and count it as a TH.

Alternatively you could get a wrist mounted stormbolter and count the Halberd as a sword.

 

Despite what anyone else says there is artistic license in how you chose to build and paint your army.

 

As an example one of the guys in my shop built his Terminator squad to be Tyranic War Vet with a bunch of Tyranid bits.  So the storm shields on the unit are the head carpace from warriors.  The assault cannon has carnafex skull as a shroud.  The Sargent is using a bone sword.  There are a bunch of other details on the unit that are all made from tyranid bits, and the squad looks great.

 

That same guy made a couple squads of Ork Commandos in camouflage.  When the units mob up they look like a Rhino and a Land Raider.  He had got the 2 vehicles as part of a collection from someone getting out of the hobby, but they were beyond salvaging.  So he chopped them up to make the camouflage for his commandos.

[Skywrath]

Thanks for your advice, friends, I'll adapt my army accordingly with your recommendations/feedback :)

Edited January 2, 2020 by Skywrath

[G8Keeper]

Thanks for your advice, friends, I'll adapt my army accordingly with your recommendations/feedback :)

Just be sure to show us the results

[Skywrath]

 

Thanks for your advice, friends, I'll adapt my army accordingly with your recommendations/feedback

Just be sure to show us the results

 

 

That will come sooner than you expect :)