Crusade era force

[james71989]

I am thinking of starting a mkii crusade era force. What would be the limitations and differences between heresy era and crusade era. Mainly what vehicles were created around the heresy era that wouldnt be around early to mid crusade?

[Gederas]

I am thinking of starting a mkii crusade era force. What would be the limitations and differences between heresy era and crusade era. Mainly what vehicles were created around the heresy era that wouldnt be around early to mid crusade?

Well, I think the only vehicles that out and out wouldn't be in the early-mid crusade era is the Sicaran variants, as well as the Whirlwind Scorpius?

 

Rhinos, Land Raiders, Predators.... Those are all around during the unification of the Sol system.

 

[StrangerOrders]

Dreadnoughts are somewhat hard to nail down. 

 

We know that Castaferrum are late models, so box-nauts are not in use until the late crusade.

 

We have records of Dreadnoughts on Terra and the Sol campaigns, so it really varies by model.

 

We know that Lucifers are very early and looked alot like Contemptors, so you can probably proxy them with Contemptors proper seeming to be around as early as the turn of the Crusade's first century. 

 

Deredeos are fairly old as well, just rare back then.

[Vykes]

From what I recall the Sicaran is a big one, Leviathan dreads, Thunderhawks, Xiphons I think were discovered and put into production later on (replacing Lightning Crows), The Cerberus I think was a late crusade find because of the neutron gun, I thought the Typhon was created for Perturabo, thus it would be after he was discovered of course.  

 

Talking about early sorts of crusade forces: the Terminator program was a little later on, and mk IV/Tartaros was rolled out near the end of the crusade. 

 

But the obvious and glorious difference is MORE CHOOM!  

Edited January 7, 2020 by Vykes

[Gederas]

From what I recall the Sicaran is a big one, Leviathan dreads, Thunderhawks, Xiphons I think were discovered and put into production later on (replacing Lightning Crows), The Cerberus I think was a late crusade find because of the neutron gun, I thought the Typhon was created for Perturabo, thus it would be after he was discovered of course.  

 

Talking about early sorts of crusade forces: the Terminator program was a little later on, and mk IV/Tartaros was rolled out near the end of the crusade. 

 

But the obvious and glorious difference is MORE CHOOM!  

Cataphractii was developed early on iirc.

 

Also yes. Volkites were incredibly common during the early Great Crusade.

 

[Vykes]

Aye, but wasn't it still seen as a needed replacement for Breacher squads when approaching the galactic core? 

 

Part of this all is how 'early' are we talking?  Everyone's wearing grey with numerals early, or 'we're recognizably who we are by the start of the heresy and have a primarch' early? 

[StrangerOrders]

Cataphractii was in testing by Gardinaal, around the 880s. Per the Ferrus Manus novel, so by the turn of the century they could be realistically in use. They had a full century or so in use, but the ample amount of MKII in use (specifically noted to be by preference in many cases) suggests the Astartes already had a stubbornly conservative streak and Termi armor has always been pricy. So its spread is hard to gauge.

 

Inferno mentions that the Wolves were given trial Tartaros suits in 999 and that it pretty immediately went into full production due to its bonkers success. 

 

The coreward push is weird, warp currents (at least going by the Book One map) are super funky and intuitive but it looks to me like the galactic core would actually be hit very early (relatively) on by the galactic eastward Expeditionary Fleets from Terra. 

 

 

Aye, but wasn't it still seen as a needed replacement for Breacher squads when approaching the galactic core? 

 

Part of this all is how 'early' are we talking?  Everyone's wearing grey with numerals early, or 'we're recognizably who we are by the start of the heresy and have a primarch' early? 

Or whether they have reached their neat 'often better than their later Legion style' motif days yet.

[Leif Bearclaw]

but the ample amount of MKII in use (specifically noted to be by preference in many cases) suggests the Astartes already had a stubbornly conservative streak and Termi armor has always been pricy. So its spread is hard to gauge.

 

I'm not sure that works as evidence for a stubbornly conservative streak though. MkIV was a late Crusade development (stupidly late imo), as is apparent with evil Horus funnelling it predominately to Traitor Legions (with the clear implication that this was special). So for most of the Crusade the only options were MKII and MkIII. MkIII isn't actually much of an improvement over MkII fluffwise, more of a trade off (tougher front vs reduced mobility). So it seems entirely plausible that Marines/Companies/Legions would prefer MkII. Not because of conservatism, but because they don't think the trade off of 'upgrading' to MkIII is worth it.

[No Foes Remain]

Macca from The Outer Circle on youtube did a video of an early crusade army as part of his getting started in the heresy series where he builds or outlines a rough idea for an army for each legion/faction. Warning: NSFW as it contains harsh language

[Marshal Rohr]

My take on it:

 

-Use as few ‘advanced’ vehicles as possible

-Use as few ‘advanced’ weapons as possible

-Stick to Mark 2 and Mark 3, and commit to doing whole squads in identical armor patterns that fit their combat role (i.e. Tacticals squads in Mark 2, Breachers in Mark 3, Despoilers in Mark 3 but Veterans in Mark 2, etc)

-Aesthetically lean into the Roman/Terran aesthetic. Gladii instead of broadswords, leather straps, Aquila motifs

-Don’t use Predators or whirlwinds, use Basilisk/Medusas and Malcadors

-Lean on Land Raider Proteus as your ‘Battle Tanks’ and Land Speeders as your Fast Movers

-If you use strike fighters use Lightnings

[SkimaskMohawk]

The xiphon was actually around during the mid-crusade, but was pretty much mothballed by the late crusade era. The extreme resources in building/fixing them and limited engagement zone made them fall out of favour.

[StrangerOrders]

Spartan was also in use by Gardinaal, Stormbirds and I think Stormeagles were in active use by Terra but Thunderhawks are a very late invention.

 

Xiphons are actually a Terran toy iirc.

 

Termites were first used by Salamanders during their first Terran campaign.

 

Its actually kinda counter-intuitive to think about what you can/can't use as alot of the sleeker stuff is actually the older stuff and the newer looking models were largely introduced as cheap replacements.

[james71989]

Im not sure what legion i want to do a crusade era force for. I was debating dark angels. I currently have blood angels thousand sons death guard and sons of horus so another loyalist legion would probably be the way i go. I was thinking tac squads backed up by land raiders and predators

[james71989]

So im thinking of doing a raven guard force. Were dark furies around on the crusade? Also would the legion still be wearing mkii after reuniting with corax

[Marshal Rohr]

Yes to Dark Furies and Mark 2

[james71989]

So im thinking corax, legion champion, 2 tac squads 2 volkite tac support squads, volkite culverin squad deimos predator squad, land raider proteus and dark furies. Would this be a good crusade era looking force. All mkii except for the dark furies

[Gederas]

So im thinking corax, legion champion, 2 tac squads 2 volkite tac support squads, volkite culverin squad deimos predator squad, land raider proteus and dark furies. Would this be a good crusade era looking force. All mkii except for the dark furies

It would be.

 

Though, since it's Raven Guard post Corax reunion, you can actually get away with some more stuff, since Corax was one of the last Primarchs recovered, iirc. Corax was found during mid-to-late-Crusade actually.

[james71989]

 

So im thinking corax, legion champion, 2 tac squads 2 volkite tac support squads, volkite culverin squad deimos predator squad, land raider proteus and dark furies. Would this be a good crusade era looking force. All mkii except for the dark furies

It would be.

 

Though, since it's Raven Guard post Corax reunion, you can actually get away with some more stuff, since Corax was one of the last Primarchs recovered, iirc. Corax was found during mid-to-late-Crusade actually.

 

 

So what more would i be able to get away with. I'll probably do it right after reunion with Corax as i dont want to push too late into the Crusade. How different were the paint schemes from Raven Guard pre and post Corax reunion?

[Gederas]

So im thinking corax, legion champion, 2 tac squads 2 volkite tac support squads, volkite culverin squad deimos predator squad, land raider proteus and dark furies. Would this be a good crusade era looking force. All mkii except for the dark furies

It would be.

 

Though, since it's Raven Guard post Corax reunion, you can actually get away with some more stuff, since Corax was one of the last Primarchs recovered, iirc. Corax was found during mid-to-late-Crusade actually.

So what more would i be able to get away with. I'll probably do it right after reunion with Corax as i dont want to push too late into the Crusade. How different were the paint schemes from Raven Guard pre and post Corax reunion?

You're pretty late in the Crusade if you're having it with Corax reunion, since only Alpharius Omegon was after him, and the Horus Heresy started a good... 40 or so years after that?

 

And the schemes were pretty similar actually.

[james71989]

Im curious if id be able go pull off a pre aand post corax force while using the same paint scheme. What lord of wars would have been around during the crusade?

[Suspira Mortis]

Im curious if id be able go pull off a pre aand post corax force while using the same paint scheme. What lord of wars would have been around during the crusade?

You could go with a Nomad Predation Fleet that was dispatched around the time Corax returned, before the black heraldry was ubiquitous. Perhaps they even kept their colours out of obstinance or in protest to how Corax treated them. Inferno has a picture of a Sons of Horus marine wearing the heraldry of the Luna Wolves at the time of The Burning of Prospero, suggesting that that the changes in heraldry within the legions were gradual.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Suspira Mortis

[james71989]

Ok im in a toss up. Im thinking between salamanders and raven guard. Would salamanders be earlier in thr crusade? Edited January 10, 2020 by james71989

[Bung]

Salamanders, BA, Fists, are some Legions that fought in the Unification war at Terra. Fists are mentioned to be part of the Forces to liberate the Moon and the Sol System.

If you want an early found Primarch go Space Wolves as Russ was the second Primarch to be found.

 

The problem with the Salamanders at that time is that they fought mostly in small Forces scattered around without much support and did mostly fight against rebellions on already conquered worlds until they were reunited with Vulkan.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Bung

[battle captain corpus]

I think the biggest challenge you're going to have to try and overcome from a modelling point of view is that Mk2 armour minis are rare as hens teeth now unfortunately also.

 

As others have discussed, lots of choooom, lots of earlier pattern bolt weapons and I would even steer clear of later patterns of certain vehicles. Such as the 40k/30k crossover Land Raider, Rhino and Predator. In my opinion they just wouldn't "click" with the mk2 look and feel.

 

BCC

[james71989]

Im sitting on 60 mkii guys unbuilt. Im thinking a praetor with thunderhammer and shield, 5 firedrakes, 2 15 man tacs 10 man volikite caliver, 3 deimos predator infernus, spartan and vulkan.