Forge World Superheavies

[NatBrannigan]

Been a few updates with FAQ's and Chapter approved points reductions and I wanted to get some opinions on our Forgeworld units and the Baneblade chassis as well.

 

So, are Baneblade varients looking at being worthwhile now? I'm thinking tournament worthy, without expecting to rock up and win the Vegas open or anything...

 

Same question about the Forgeworld superheavies. Preator launcher or Crassus worth looking at? Macharius variants, specifically the Vulcan because the others look thoroughly underwhelming (correct me if i'm wrong please!)?

 

I also love the look of Malacdors but, you'd just take Leman Russ's right? Maybe the Infernus or Valdor?

 

Anything else worth looking at? Trojan, Carnodon?

 

Finally, why on Earth would anyone ever take a regular Hellhound over the Artemia pattern? Do you think using the regular model and just telling your opponent it's an Artemia is ok?

Edited January 9, 2020 by WarriorFish
More meaningful title

[MrZakalwe]

Carnodons add an interesting weapon profile with the volkite turret (very good when twinned with wound rerolls against T8 targets with good saves/invulnerables) then add a couple of multilasers to keep it cheap but are otherwise quite forgettable.

 

The superheavies are pretty meh without exception. BS4+ on such expensive models just isn't worth it.  

 

Normal hellhounds are ever so slightly worse overall than Artemias but they do shine in slightly different circumstances so I think there's room for both - that said I bring 3 Artemias. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by MrZakalwe

[NatBrannigan]

But it looks like the Artemias are exactly the same except their gun has D2 instead of D1? Just don't get why you would want a regular Hellhound unless you were scared of it blowing up easily?

[Mikhail the Valhallan]

I'm away from my books at the moment but isn't the artemia roll 2d6 hits take the highest while the normal hellhound is just straight roll 2d6 hits?

[Chris521]

Well it's 2D6 1 Damage vs D6(reroll) 2 Damage so it depends on the target.

 

Anyway, it's kind of funny how pretty much the only FW superheavy worth our time (Vulcan) is only where it is because FW didn't realize that they took the shoot twice rule away for the Stormlord with 8th edition.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Chris521

[Mikhail the Valhallan]

Apologies for myself steering off topic, as far as super heavies go the crasus looks promising as a transport and also for a cheaper super heavy detachment so that you can more easily get regimental rules on your super heavies without dedicating you're entire army to super heavies, but since I don't really play at the tournament level take my musings with a grain of salt.

[sairence]

The main issue of our Baneblades is that they have no invun or FNP and have to make do with a 3+ armour save. We have some psychic to buff that, but that only goes so far. The BS 4+ is the second issue, but the first one is usually the killer.

 

The FW Baneblades suffer from not having gotten the point reductions or the upgrade to their number of shots that the Codex-ones received some time ago.

[SadisticFurvy]

I regularly run 3 super heavies in competitive games in my area, I looked at the forgeworld supers quite a bit before settling. They all seemed kinda underwhelming when compared to the baneblade chassis.

 

The baneblades ability to deal with both infantry and vehicles make it more appealing, and if buffed and supported correctly with the right regiment, even more so.

 

The Trojan support vehicle is an auto include for me currently. The reroll all failed shots combined with the Catachan regiment rules works wonders.

[sairence]

One thing I've noticed yesterday is that as a side-effect of the Hellstrike Missiles in the last CA, the Marauder Destroyer (and I presume the Bomber as well) has become somewhat more affordable.

 

Previously it would have cost you about 500p with the missile loadout, now that's dropped to 405 for a pretty solid number of shots. 30 S5, 6 and 7 AP-1 shots doing 1-2 damage each plus 8 S8 A0-2 shots doing D6 damage roll 2 pick the highest. That'a some pretty nice dakka and I will hopefully finally finish mine now. :D

 

It has the same issue as others in that it has nothing protecting it from high AP weapons and it's only T7, but at least it has a built in -1 as a flyer. Add in an Astropath or two and an Officer of the Fleet and it could be fun.

[NatBrannigan]

Hellhound question answered now thank you! Missed the different number of shots, whoops.

 

The Macharius Vulcan was the one that stood out for me as well, alongside the Trojan. 

 

What ways are there to mitigate the slight squishiness (it's a technical term...) of our superheavies? +1 to save and -1 to hit psycic powers are a given. Techpriests worth having a look at? Any sneaky ways to get an Invulnerable save bubble?

[dice4thedicegod]

. 

 

What ways are there to mitigate the slight squishiness (it's a technical term...) of our superheavies? +1 to save and -1 to hit psycic powers are a given. Techpriests worth having a look at? Any sneaky ways to get an Invulnerable save bubble?

If you are using fixed number of shots (like the Vulcan) or low variability (like the shadowsword) then you could consider making your super heavy detachment valhallan.

[Lhorke The First]

I use a Macharius Heavy Tank (with the battle cannons) whenever I play with my guard army. It is certainly nothing to brag about because I am certain I would get much more use out of those points if I spent them on more Leman Russ tanks instead. However, I love the model so I still use it.

[Tyr13]

I reckon the Malcador Defender isnt too horrible. It puts out a decent amount of shots, while (and this is important) not seeming too scary. Its just a slightly tougher demolisher with more heavy bolters. Could lead to it being underestimated. (Also, the model is gloriously weird)

[NatBrannigan]

Are Tech Priests worth a look? Fairly cheap way to heal D3 damage a turn.

 

Seriously looking at picking up a Shadowsword, Stormlord and a Macharius Vulcan as the core of a tournament army. 4 Infantry squads to screen and a big unit of Bullgryns for the Storm Lord, then all the standard support characters.

[sairence]

If you bring a lot of wounds in armour they are definitely worth it at 30p

[Ldorte]

I reckon the Malcador Defender isnt too horrible. It puts out a decent amount of shots, while (and this is important) not seeming too scary. Its just a slightly tougher demolisher with more heavy bolters. Could lead to it being underestimated. (Also, the model is gloriously weird)

Although it is important to note that the Malcador variants are all heavy support choices now so a bit more accessible in terms of detachments

[Tyr13]

 

I reckon the Malcador Defender isnt too horrible. It puts out a decent amount of shots, while (and this is important) not seeming too scary. Its just a slightly tougher demolisher with more heavy bolters. Could lead to it being underestimated. (Also, the model is gloriously weird)

Although it is important to note that the Malcador variants are all heavy support choices now so a bit more accessible in terms of detachments

All except for the Valdor. For some reason... but yeah, the switch to HS definitely helps. Though they still feel kinda superheavyish. ^^

[SteveAntilles]

I run a Malcador Defender in my Mordian Armored Company. It shoots better in overwatch than it does on the move. I love that big dumb beast.

[Galron]

FW superheavies across the board are too expensive for what they do compared to their GW SH equivalents. while Baneblades have gone down in points over the last couple of years, GW has done no favors to FW. Look at how expensive the space marine super heavies are, we can at least bring the IG SHs and still have an army, they are just plain screwed and they have such really cool looking tanks for very niche roles. Who doesn't like a Typhon/Brummbar?

 

Macharius Vulcan is decent, likely the best of the Mach series

Mach Vanquisher is ok. Its better than the LR version at least and mine has never died in a battle since I tend to hold it back and push with my closer ranged LRs. Coolest looking of the Mach series IMO

Mach Omega on paper looks pretty good, I have one, just have never gotten around to using it in standard 40k. Did ok for me in Apoc

Valdor is to me ok on paper but with so few shots I am kind of meh about using it in standard 40k and haven't gotten around to it. Suffers in Apoc with its single shot.

Mach Heavy tank I haven't barely looked at. If you aren't taking a SH for special heavy weapons, why not just take more LRs?

 

Infernus looks like it would be fun. Hellhounds are already a blast to play, I imagine a heavier version would be even better.

Malcador heavy tank is meh. I field mine(when I field it) with three lascannons and just plop it in the back on a firing lane. They should have given all of the malcador series Grinding advance, otherwise they are pillboxes.

Defender looks fun, one day I will get one and use it. Someone higher mentioned it, its an upgunned Demolisher tank with better defense.

 

Still though, all are heavily overpriced, just not to the degree of the SM SHs

[MrZakalwe]

Problem with most of them is for less points I can soup in a melee knight and force the enemy to deal with it rather than shooting my russes. With the 4+ invuln it will have that will soak up a *lot* more firepower.

[Santaclauswitz]

If you're looking to finish off a super heavy detachment then think about the minotaur double basilisk tank. It's the second cheapest behind a crassus transport. Offensively it's the same output as 2 basilisks. It's 80 points more expensive than 2 basilisks though I believe there are several inbuilt buffs that go towards justifying the price. It's much more durable at t8 compared with the basilisks t6 plus it has a 5+ invulnerable save. It also gets all the standard super heavy goodies thrown in, can't be pinned in combat and can move and shoot without penalty.

[Mikhail the Valhallan]

I like that train of thought, also benefits of the Minotaur include that it's roll 4d6 take the two highest which my measly math skills make me think that's better than two separate 2d6 take the highest.

[MrZakalwe]

I like that train of thought, also benefits of the Minotaur include that it's roll 4d6 take the two highest which my measly math skills make me think that's better than two separate 2d6 take the highest.

 

Quick maths gives me an average of 8.95 for the two Basilisks and 9.333 for the Minotaur (non-Catachan). 

 

With the Catachan reroll this narrows to  9.9 for the twin Basilisks and 9.9333 for the Minotaur.