Feelings on Mortifiers?

[MoshJason]

How are y'all feeling re: Mortifiers?

 

The last game I played was 1000 pts, vs Tyranids.

 

I took 2 squads of 1 HB/flail Mortifiers, and 1 squad of 2 of the same. In game, the first died turn one due to mining laser fire, and then the squad of 2 charged a squad of 21 gaunts, and the squad of 1 charged a squad of 20 gaunts after they had been whittled down with stormbolter fire.

 

Not sure if it was just because of the Tervigan replenishing them and all of my other units I was planning to support them with rolling a 4 or less on the charge and failing it, but my Mortifiers were unable to fight their way free of the gaunts.

 

I'd like to take them again, but was wondering what everyone's thoughts were on them?

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

Well, I wouldn't expect Mortifiers to be as good as Penitent Engines in close combat ... they are not dedicated close combat after all. Kind of sounds like you were using them the way I would use PE though?

 

I haven't actually used any of this stuff, since I don't have the models and I personally don't like doing proxies for superstitious reasons -- just never seems to work out, same with how models used unpainted always seem to be cursed for all time afterwards.

 

My thoughts on Mortifiers not rules-wise is I really like the models.

[Purifying Tempest]

I want to like them, and I want to use them... but I just cannot get down with what they really represent. Sisters who have sinned so grievously that the punishment is... that. Just doesn't feel like it belongs as a cornerstone of a faithful army.

 

I look at the units (Mortifiers and Repentia) and want to load up with them, because they actually seem good. But then, how much of my army do I want to parade around as being weak of will and spirit?

 

Totally worst reason for not playing with good models, right?

[taikishi]

Think of Mortifiers and Repentia as a reminder of their humanity. A reminder of their imperfections. A reminder of the fate of all who do not fully devote their faith and worship to the God Emperor, be they of the Imperium, Heretics, or even the foul Xenos and their false gods.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

To me, Repentia and Mortifiers exemplify how hard core and devoted the Adepta Soritas are, that if they are guilty of the smallest (perceived) transgression or lack of faith, they will be subject to such punishments and they accept those punishments gladly throwing themselves into the fray to redeem themselves. They don't slink off into the darkness or take another easy way out. They're the opposite of weak of will and spirit.

 

It does also make them more human. It's impossible to have absolute perfection. It's a testament to their great faith that they root out imperfection so zealously. So I say field those cool units without fear!

[CaptainMarsh]

Mortifiers have the same Strength, Toughness, Attacks, and CC weapon profiles. PE have Zealot, Mortifiers hit on 3s. Mortifiers have 2 inches of additional movement and have the AS keyword so can benefit from a stratagem that allows them to advance and charge- and if armed with Heavy Bolters, can use them as Assault weapons while they do so. HB Mortifiers cost the same as a PE.

I think PE have the ever so slight advantage on the charge, though in all other ways I think the Mortifiers are superior.

[Purifying Tempest]

To me, Repentia and Mortifiers exemplify how hard core and devoted the Adepta Soritas are, that if they are guilty of the smallest (perceived) transgression or lack of faith, they will be subject to such punishments and they accept those punishments gladly throwing themselves into the fray to redeem themselves. They don't slink off into the darkness or take another easy way out. They're the opposite of weak of will and spirit.

 

It does also make them more human. It's impossible to have absolute perfection. It's a testament to their great faith that they root out imperfection so zealously. So I say field those cool units without fear!

 

Oh, I agree, but when making an army, you'll want to increase the population of those "dirty" units to better help them do what you're including them to do.  I doubt a 4-sinner squad of repentia and a Mortifier would ever hit anything other than the dirt.  But now kinda splitting hairs over army composition.  I also don't think every small transgression is punished by stripping off armor and sent to the Repentia.  If you're at all familiar with the Catholic church, there's MANY tiers of repentance before you start getting into real big trouble   I don't think that's necessarily a topic for this thread though

 

On the table, as units, I think I prefer Mortifiers to PEs.  That 2" definitely helps it accomplish its specific goal of crossing the table and crashing into the opponent's lines.  Adepta Sororitas tag gives it access to Embodied Prophecy (if that's your jazz), Holy Rage, Judgment of the Faithful (if you get swamped in against a unit you'd prefer to not be stuck on), Purity of Faith (deny supporting psychic powers out of range of your front lines), and Suffer Not the Witch... in addition to Desperate for Redemption (which should be the only stratagem that PEs get to leverage).  I think of all of that mess, you're really trading 10% accuracy for Holy Rage (Advance and charge) and extra movement with some added dakka that can go... elsewhere.  That's ultimately why I think Mortifiers are a good unit, they have a lot of options open to them, and can leverage a lot of stratagems to give the unit some depth over a pure dash and smash unit.  I think a unit of 4 is probably a solid addition to just about any player's army.

 

Edit: A little extra note about how much of a threat Mortifiers having access to Judgment of the Faithful.  You can intentionally go into a tarpit, coax the other guy into ignoring that mistake, and then disengage and move deeper into his lines if he does not properly disengage himself and remove the threat.  Ideally, he'll do that, but that is diverting resources away from killing your Retributor castle that is still raining death upon him with their lascannons+1.

Edited January 9, 2020 by Purifying Tempest

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I really like the idea of walking a few of them, armed with Heavy Flamers into a mob of troops. Even if they can't polish the mob off in one turn of combat, in the next, you can fire the flamers as if they are pistols! Burn Heretics!

[ThePenitentOne]

In the witch hunter dex days, I built my 3000 point army as two 1500 point armies. One was the holy choir- faithful models only... The holiest of the holy. The other was the penitent legion. The idea was that either army could take on moderate threats, but in times of great peril, they would unite.

 

In this edition, I wanted to do it by keeping the forces in separate detachments. Bit of a problem though- no penitent legion troops choice, so it's gotta be a vanguard, which bleeds CP.

 

Regarding mortifiers specifically though, I like them; they bring shooty to the penitent legion, which was something that we really lacked. 

 

I want to build a special army with Karamazov that's just pure walkers. That wouldn't be possible without mortifiers. Once again though, CP kills this concept

[Lemondish]

I want to like them, and I want to use them... but I just cannot get down with what they really represent. Sisters who have sinned so grievously that the punishment is... that. Just doesn't feel like it belongs as a cornerstone of a faithful army.

 

I look at the units (Mortifiers and Repentia) and want to load up with them, because they actually seem good. But then, how much of my army do I want to parade around as being weak of will and spirit?

 

Totally worst reason for not playing with good models, right?

Some are volunteers. Sisters sometimes willingly exile themselves, finding fault in the smallest transgression in order to join the Repentia and prove themselves. Even Celestine herself was a Repentia when she died.

 

Those reasons are what make them feel fitting to me. I place the Mortifier into a different box in my mind, however...one filled with arco-flagelants and PEs. One where it feels like the purpose is mad science. Not too keen on that, personally, so I get you.

[Servant of Dante]

Repentia can be actual transgressions or just volunteers because of personal feelings of failure. I had the impression that Mortifiers were fluffed as being Sisters who did something worse than just small personal failings, and that the optional Squad Leader models are Sister Superiors who betrayed their unit. However, I’ve not had a chance to get the codex yet so maybe I’m mistaken. I know this thread is more about rules but if someone could straighten me out on the fluff for them I’d appreciate it :D The idea that there’s enough Sister Superiors doing that and getting caught and not immediately executed for the Adepta to have a whole separate name for them is silly imo. Even more silly than the idea of Mortifiers existing when Repentia already do. :P

 

Immediate Edit: I should clarify I’m just salty about GW fluff for Sisters recently (I have a very specific headcanon I suppose) and I absolutely don’t fault anyone for enjoying Mortifiers or their fluff implications just because I personally have some concerns.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Servant of Dante

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Mortifiers are said to be Repentia who fled from battle.

 

I forget what the extra heinous stuff was that they had to do to be put in the Anchorite.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[taikishi]

Codex in hand.

 

As Adelard said, Mortifiers are Repentia who have fled battle. They are bolted into Mortifiers and denied their sight and hearing through the hood on their head that they cannot hear the pious prayers of their former Sisters and cannot see the heretics they kill, while neural-agonizers increase their self-loathing. Killing heretics only increases their pain. Unlike Repentia, Sisters bound to Mortifiers are unredeemed and once the machine has received "an obscene amount of damage", her pain sends herself and the machine into a death throe.

 

Anchorites are Repentia (not just superiors) that have betrayed their Sisters in battle. The sarcophagus they're entombed in is intent to keep said Sister alive and isolated for years, or even decades before finding her end.

Edited January 10, 2020 by taikishi

[Sir_Gaea]

With the Mortifiers and Anchorites I don't feel as bad fielding 2 Contemptors and a Contemptor-Galatus.

 

Mind you, fluff for my Sisters is that these are Mecha suits that came about as a result of a...disagreement...between my sisters and the Ecclesiarchy.

[Shandathe]

While Mortifiers are a symbol of failure, I suspect the vast majority of Repentia, and especially Repentia that then flee from battle, are fresh recruits. I tend to see the failure as belonging  the Schola far more than the Order.

 

Anyway, for @MoshJason : They've done well for me so far, but like most new units it will take experience to know what they can and can't achieve. 20+ Termagants cost a good bit more than a Mortifier, yet the Mortifier will kill about 8.3 of them a round in melee (15 attacks, 3+ to hit, 2+ to wound, no save) with little risk to itself. 

 

The Tervigon then can be identified as the real problem, as it can refill 10 and its Synapse stops them from running away, so you're suddenly not getting a meaningful win. Dedicating some heavy weapons to the Exorcist baitTervigon while it was close enough to refill the Termagants would likely help immensely - killing it is worth a bonus D6 mortal wounds to any Termagant squads near it, and gets rid of a source of synapse and buffs. Remember, if he's cheating by bringing in supporting units, so should you. :)

 

An alternative solution is to toss the CP at a second round of attacks, which would probably have allowed the squad of 2 to kill the 21 with ease (as that's 60 S6 attacks total unless the Termagants actually somehow manage to kill one, and an average of 33.3 dead Termagants). That's an expensive way to get rid of a squad that can be handled with small arms fire though.

 

Also worth noting is that the Heavy Flamers aren't that much more expensive and given their D6 Pistol status on Mortifiers can do some very good work when you get stuck in a bunch of gribblies.

[Servant of Dante]

Thanks for the clarification, Adelard and taikishi. That’s marginally better than I thought, but still seems needless to me from a fluff perspective. As far as a justification for a Sisters PE (if you absolutely have to have one) I guess it’s not as bad as it could be :D

 

Edit: but given all that, how in the heck are they A ) trusted with heavy weapons, and B ) still shooting at BS 3+? :P

 

While Repentia may be more fresh recruits, I’d assume you don’t end up taking the Oath of the Penitent as a Novice, so you’re still not fresh out of the Schola. That’s just my view on it though. I’d say more but I’m already getting off the topic of Mortifiers.

Edited January 14, 2020 by Servant of Dante

[Slasher956]

well if they are shooting at BS 3+ your doing something wrong... those HBs are Assault 3 not heavy 3 so advance the naughty girls up quickly as a distraction 'fex :) .... or they have Ultra Heavy hand flamers... aka Heavy Flamers with pistol D6 not Heavy D6!

[Purifying Tempest]

Yup, IF I were to run a squad of Mortifiers, it would probably be a single full squad (4).  Their primary goal would be to advance up the board as quickly as possible, tossing some HB fire around just to make noise and get more attention on them... and to possibly soften up a unit elsewhere, NOT the unit I am lining up.  Adepta Sororitas keyword allows them to use Holy Rage to threaten advance+charge.  And as for getting gobbled up by things they don't want to fight, you can, as long as you are not surrounded, use Judgment of the Faithful to disengage that problem and crash into another without a loss of tempo.

 

Like... having Adepta Sororitas trait on those models is... silly good.

[Lemondish]

Yup, IF I were to run a squad of Mortifiers, it would probably be a single full squad (4).  Their primary goal would be to advance up the board as quickly as possible, tossing some HB fire around just to make noise and get more attention on them... and to possibly soften up a unit elsewhere, NOT the unit I am lining up.  Adepta Sororitas keyword allows them to use Holy Rage to threaten advance+charge.  And as for getting gobbled up by things they don't want to fight, you can, as long as you are not surrounded, use Judgment of the Faithful to disengage that problem and crash into another without a loss of tempo.

 

Like... having Adepta Sororitas trait on those models is... silly good.

 

Great thoughts - I love the idea. 

 

Now I just need to come to grips with the models themselves...

[Irbis]

Thanks for the clarification, Adelard and taikishi. That’s marginally better than I thought, but still seems needless to me from a fluff perspective. As far as a justification for a Sisters PE (if you absolutely have to have one) I guess it’s not as bad as it could be

 

Edit: but given all that, how in the heck are they A ) trusted with heavy weapons, and B ) still shooting at BS 3+?

 

What fluff perspective? Fluff is what you make it. Maybe Mortifiers usually are punishment, but in your Order they were dusted off because they found themselves in desperate situation and need all tools they have? And pilots are volunteers, not repentia? That's why they have 3+ and heavy weapons, because they signed up for it, and any pain they might receive is just a small price to pay in the line of duty. Solves both issues at once, no?