Tau vs DG

[Paturabo]

If the consensus is still "well chaos can just soup daemons and other Legions to stay competitive", then what's the fear of giving them a mono bonus? Can't have both, no power gaming there. It at least would give us a choice and let those that want to play an actual legion play the darn legion.

I think the reasoning behind not giving Chaos a mono-faction bonus is because we have a mechanic that can directly circumvent it: Daemonic Ritual.

 

What's to stop a player from building a 2000 point list that's 1500 points of a single legion of marines with 500 reinforcement points, recieving their mono-faction bonus, and then summoning in 500 points of Daemons mid-game?

 

While there can be an argument made for mono-god dedicated armies getting a bonus, the Undivided armies like Word Bearers or Black Legion could bring in any flavor of Daemon they wanted. I really doubt that any chaos army will get a mono-faction bonus because of this.

[Special Officer Doofy]

 

If the consensus is still "well chaos can just soup daemons and other Legions to stay competitive", then what's the fear of giving them a mono bonus? Can't have both, no power gaming there. It at least would give us a choice and let those that want to play an actual legion play the darn legion.

I think the reasoning behind not giving Chaos a mono-faction bonus is because we have a mechanic that can directly circumvent it: Daemonic Ritual.

 

What's to stop a player from building a 2000 point list that's 1500 points of a single legion of marines with 500 reinforcement points, recieving their mono-faction bonus, and then summoning in 500 points of Daemons mid-game?

 

While there can be an argument made for mono-god dedicated armies getting a bonus, the Undivided armies like Word Bearers or Black Legion could bring in any flavor of Daemon they wanted. I really doubt that any chaos army will get a mono-faction bonus because of this.

That's easy. A simple wording of it's mono rule could prevent that. Loyalist can bring an inquisitor and still receive their mono bonus. Got to have that <Imperium> keyword apperently to get good rules...

[Paturabo]

That's easy. A simple wording of it's mono rule could prevent that. Loyalist can bring an inquisitor and still receive their mono bonus. Got to have that <Imperium> keyword apperently to get good rules...

A single Inquisitor is not a Greater Daemon, and that's the argument they'll be using against us.

 

Considering Thousand Sons and vanilla CSM did not receive any changes to their Legion Traits, let alone a mono-faction bonus, there's no reason to get our hopes up. At least not in n Psychic Awakening.

 

Maybe in a future codex release or supplement, but with rumors of 9th Edition coming after Psychic Awakening, I doubt either of those will be in 2020.

 

Also, with Death Guard and Tau (and maybe one more faction) getting rules in PA5, we're about half way though the list of factions that are supposed to be involved in this event. Expect 4-6 more books after this depending on how many factions get covered in each volume.

[Special Officer Doofy]

@Paturabo I was inferring the mono bonus could prevent you from summoning, take your pick. Free bonuses or souping. I take it you haven't read every post in this thread. That's all stuff I said in a previous post about not getting it in PA, it would take codex, and even then we wouldn't probably get it because we don't have <imperium> keyword and a Primaris model range to sell...

 

And the people speculating about chaos mono bonus thought you would only be allowed to summon daemons from your codex anyways so that's no HQ daemons, and summoning a Greater Daemon takes a roll of 17 out of 18 without a strat or relic, which is just under 2% without a reroll mechanic or 4th dice. And alot of the greater daemons suck for their point cost. Just sayin'. I mean I'm hoping for stuff but I'm willing to bet we won't get much. Would be cool to get a strat to add DR to a vehicle for 1cp or something. I've just never been a fan of band-aids. The more dumb PA stuff that is far weaker than a codex/supplement with mono buffs, the longer it will take to actually fix some factions with an actual codex.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Cleon]

Assuming they are trying to reduce soup, I'd prefer they went a different way for Chaos and work it more into the gods - so the mono would be 'if every unit witth <Mark of Chaos> has <Nurgle> and no units have <Khorne>, <Slaanesh> or <Tzeentch> then ... applies to any unit with <Nurgle> in addition to any other keyword traits a unit may have' so apply the bonus to Death Guard, Demons and renegades a long as everything is Nurgle. Let Demons work with Death Guard, but lose the bonus if you bring anything Thousand sons, or non Nurgle aligned Black legion etc.

[Special Officer Doofy]

That's still hard to do. I still wouldn't want two Legions together if they had the same mark, and a legion like the word bearers spreads their Daemon worshipping love around and is cool and fluffy with different marks. I don't know the solution to mono buffs applying to chaos to make everyone happy, I just know it's easy to identify the problem and power gap the mono buff brings. The solution shouldn't be buy more codexs, buy models I don't care for, and soup.

 

Back more on the PA side of things, I was never expecting we would get the character, so I take it the new Shadowsun is the new character? I think it's cool she has a wargear option now. Hopefully that's something that spreads to other factions and characters.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Wolf Lord Loki]

Assuming they are trying to reduce soup, I'd prefer they went a different way for Chaos and work it more into the gods - so the mono would be 'if every unit witth <Mark of Chaos> has <Nurgle> and no units have <Khorne>, <Slaanesh> or <Tzeentch> then ... applies to any unit with <Nurgle> in addition to any other keyword traits a unit may have' so apply the bonus to Death Guard, Demons and renegades a long as everything is Nurgle. Let Demons work with Death Guard, but lose the bonus if you bring anything Thousand sons, or non Nurgle aligned Black legion etc.

The only issue then is Unmarked/ undivided armies suffer because they don't have the benefits of a mark.

 

So you will only end up seeing armies alligned to the Big 4. Because why wouldn't you - free bonuses?

[Cleon]

I don't have a problem with giving a similar buff for an undivided force that contains no marks, as long as they don't seek the boons of any of the big 4 on any of their units.

 

Personally I'd rather a complete ground up redesign of the army selection rules to discourage soup, but if GW is going with 'you can soup or get a mono build bonus' then I'd rather have the Chaos one built on gods than on Legions of origin.

 

My preferred option would be to have command points linked to force size, with a free core detachment that's a choice of Patrol, battalion or Brigade (or Lance for Knights) then have any other formation cost command points instead of grant (different amount per type) then with an extra tax if it's a different army keyword to the core one. Then I don't think you'd need mono bonuses to deter/balance soup as you'd be costing the soup bonuses against command points.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

Looks like we spoke too soon. Really weird we got the short story of Tau vs DG and then nothing. Oh well. We're just going to have to wait.

[Trollbeard]

I think GW realized there wasn’t an Imperial faction in it and kicked DG out and replaced with guard lol

[Aothaine]

I think T'au will be better against Deathwatch and the inquisition. Death Guard would walk all over the T'au.

[Dont-Be-Haten]

I think T'au will be better against Deathwatch and the inquisition. Death Guard would walk all over the T'au.

Disagree. A true introduction to chaos from the Tau perspective would have been amazing. How the corruption works against the Tau and how they overcome/endure it would have been the best story GW could have made in a really long time.

 

Plus Tau > DG in just about every aspect of the table top. Down to their endurance *looks at shield drones*

[Special Officer Doofy]

Tau vs DG would have been cool but I think the short story was the DG on their way to play with the smurfs for plague wars. Books 8 and 9 will most likely be (idk the order) deathwatch/inquisition vs necron vs harlequins and then DG vs Talons of the emperor (custodes and sisters of silence).

 

In their symbols for factions from the original PA announcment deathwatch and inquisition are together and talons of the emperor for both custodes and SOS. So those pairings are all that's left (if sagas is only wolves and orks that is, might include the clowns?). Kinda kills the mood of DG being tough as nails though when they will probably be paired against the imperiums finest but fewest...