GW wants us to have painted armies. Should they be Required?

[RandyB]

I will never turn down a game because an opponents army is not painted.

 

I will not play my own armies if they are not painted.

 

This is a personal rule and I do not expect it of anyone else.

 

The major exception i make is basing, I dont care about that at all.

No opinion on basing. As for the rest, you and I are in full agreement.

[MARK0SIAN]

If someone hasn't or doesn't feel like painting their army, it's their loss, not yours, and none of your damn business. You might as well refuse to play anyone that doesn't stick LEDs in their Marines- after all, it's solely your opponent's army visuals as dictated by you that matter and not setting up the minis and playing a game with someone for fun, right?

You speak about the fun of the game and the fun of the visuals as if they are two completely separate things with no bearing on each other. For me, I don’t care about winning or losing, the thing I enjoy most about games is seeing an amazing, immersive spectacle on the table. That’s where I get my fun. So someone making no effort to paint their army at all is my loss as well as theirs. Now if you consider me pathetic for that then that’s your prerogative.

 

More importantly though, the person who doesn’t want to paint their army clearly gets their enjoyment/fun from purely playing the game. Now they surely expect me to play the game as intended, to be sportsmanlike, to know the rules etc. So they have expectations of myself, why then is it unreasonable for me to have some expectations of them?

 

We all have different priorities when it comes to the hobby and as it’s a social game there has to be give and take on both sides, I happen to think a quick spray of their units with Mephiston red or leadbelcher is a perfectly reasonable expectation and in return I try to live up to everything I think my opponent would expect of me but it does not appear we are going to see eye to eye on this.

[Marshal Rohr]

This is very clearly one of those instances where it’s on a player by player basis with no right or wrong answer. The label on the box has nothing to do with if an army should be painted or not, it’s there to prevent people from buying it with the misconception the figures inside look like the figures on the outside. Like the ‘competitive vs. casual’ debate it’s always going to be individual preference and the climate of your gaming group. Should you paint your armies? Yes, painting is part of the Hobby Trinity. Should they be painted for every game you play? No, sometimes it’s about rolling dice. Are people who paint slowly, play more games unpainted than painted doing it wrong? Irrelevant, what’s relevant is if that person is a weenie or weirdo.

[Lucerne]

 

If someone hasn't or doesn't feel like painting their army, it's their loss, not yours, and none of your damn business. You might as well refuse to play anyone that doesn't stick LEDs in their Marines- after all, it's solely your opponent's army visuals as dictated by you that matter and not setting up the minis and playing a game with someone for fun, right?

You speak about the fun of the game and the fun of the visuals as if they are two completely separate things with no bearing on each other. For me, I don’t care about winning or losing, the thing I enjoy most about games is seeing an amazing, immersive spectacle on the table. That’s where I get my fun. So someone making no effort to paint their army at all is my loss as well as theirs. Now if you consider me pathetic for that then that’s your prerogative.

 

More importantly though, the person who doesn’t want to paint their army clearly gets their enjoyment/fun from purely playing the game. Now they surely expect me to play the game as intended, to be sportsmanlike, to know the rules etc. So they have expectations of myself, why then is it unreasonable for me to have some expectations of them?

 

We all have different priorities when it comes to the hobby and as it’s a social game there has to be give and take on both sides, I happen to think a quick spray of their units with Mephiston red or leadbelcher is a perfectly reasonable expectation and in return I try to live up to everything I think my opponent would expect of me but it does not appear we are going to see eye to eye on this.

 

That's because the visuals- painting as a hobby- and the gameplay itself- ie: warhammer 40k, the game with rules as actually played- are, in fact, completely different.

 

People have played 40k for fun in an actual warzone using rocks:

 

So this idea that you need to paint a masterpiece just to qualify for a friendly game of 40k in the first place is an intentionally hostile act towards people that have every right to be part of the hobby even if they don't care about painting- or actually can't do it.

 

Following 40k rules is necessary for the game to happen, a fancy paintjob simply isn't. (and the idea that just a quick spray changes the minis much is kind of...strange in its own right) If you want something that mandates a paintjob, there are plenty of perfectly good "best painted" competitions for that, and communities just for the artistic side. But those aren't the be-all and end-all of the wider 40k community or needed for games to happen- and that's a good thing.

 

Painting is amazing. Well painted armies are amazing. Trying to force painting armies on everyone at gunpoint is amazing- for all the wrong reasons, and should be discouraged.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Lucerne

[Schlitzaf]

 

If someone hasn't or doesn't feel like painting their army, it's their loss, not yours, and none of your damn business. You might as well refuse to play anyone that doesn't stick LEDs in their Marines- after all, it's solely your opponent's army visuals as dictated by you that matter and not setting up the minis and playing a game with someone for fun, right?

You speak about the fun of the game and the fun of the visuals as if they are two completely separate things with no bearing on each other. For me, I don’t care about winning or losing, the thing I enjoy most about games is seeing an amazing, immersive spectacle on the table. That’s where I get my fun. So someone making no effort to paint their army at all is my loss as well as theirs. Now if you consider me pathetic for that then that’s your prerogative.

 

More importantly though, the person who doesn’t want to paint their army clearly gets their enjoyment/fun from purely playing the game. Now they surely expect me to play the game as intended, to be sportsmanlike, to know the rules etc. So they have expectations of myself, why then is it unreasonable for me to have some expectations of them?

 

We all have different priorities when it comes to the hobby and as it’s a social game there has to be give and take on both sides, I happen to think a quick spray of their units with Mephiston red or leadbelcher is a perfectly reasonable expectation and in return I try to live up to everything I think my opponent would expect of me but it does not appear we are going to see eye to eye on this.

You see I regularly played with unpainted models. But to say its because its absolutely despise painting. I thought contrast was gonna help tbf it did not. The only reason I want to paint is because peer pressure.

 

But to say its only because I enjoy playing? That would be false. I LOVE converting, I love finding a mini then making it my own. I love taking the Black Templar upgrade sprew to intercessors and tacticals chassis and making my own thing.

 

But then telling me to paint, I despise, hate it, and despite numerous attempts cannot really do it. I am gonna have some commission work for my army done. Purely because I just feel bad, espacially taking my army out of the box play the game and models I love.

 

Also I work a 9-5 retail job, and I don’t find painting relaxing, just excruciating. Its awful. And makes me feel bad. But because of stuff I suffer from like my adhd, trying to paint, is something I rather constistently struggle with.

 

Sorry, its just I dislike when people go “grey plastic only gamer”. Because their could be multiple reasons someone grey plastics.

[Lucerne]

 

 

If someone hasn't or doesn't feel like painting their army, it's their loss, not yours, and none of your damn business. You might as well refuse to play anyone that doesn't stick LEDs in their Marines- after all, it's solely your opponent's army visuals as dictated by you that matter and not setting up the minis and playing a game with someone for fun, right?

You speak about the fun of the game and the fun of the visuals as if they are two completely separate things with no bearing on each other. For me, I don’t care about winning or losing, the thing I enjoy most about games is seeing an amazing, immersive spectacle on the table. That’s where I get my fun. So someone making no effort to paint their army at all is my loss as well as theirs. Now if you consider me pathetic for that then that’s your prerogative.

 

More importantly though, the person who doesn’t want to paint their army clearly gets their enjoyment/fun from purely playing the game. Now they surely expect me to play the game as intended, to be sportsmanlike, to know the rules etc. So they have expectations of myself, why then is it unreasonable for me to have some expectations of them?

 

We all have different priorities when it comes to the hobby and as it’s a social game there has to be give and take on both sides, I happen to think a quick spray of their units with Mephiston red or leadbelcher is a perfectly reasonable expectation and in return I try to live up to everything I think my opponent would expect of me but it does not appear we are going to see eye to eye on this.

You see I regularly played with unpainted models. But to say its because its absolutely despise painting. I thought contrast was gonna help tbf it did not. The only reason I want to paint is because peer pressure.

 

But to say its only because I enjoy playing? That would be false. I LOVE converting, I love finding a mini then making it my own. I love taking the Black Templar upgrade sprew to intercessors and tacticals chassis and making my own thing.

 

But then telling me to paint, I despise, hate it, and despite numerous attempts cannot really do it. I am gonna have some commission work for my army done. Purely because I just feel bad, espacially taking my army out of the box play the game and models I love.

 

Also I work a 9-5 retail job, and I don’t find painting relaxing, just excruciating. Its awful. And makes me feel bad. But because of stuff I suffer from like my adhd, trying to paint, is something I rather constistently struggle with.

 

Sorry, its just I dislike when people go “grey plastic only gamer”. Because their could be multiple reasons someone grey plastics.

 

Ooof. Sorry people are being jerks and pressuring you into something you're not comfortable with- it honestly is nothing to feel shame about and if you like your army as it is now, just bring them to the table as is. Someone that gives you a hard time over it frankly isn't worth the bother- it's not like they're paying for your army or your commissioned paintjob, right?

[Ishagu]

But GW clearly intend for players to have painted armies. They spends thousands on painting tutorial, millions on paint range marketing and hobby supplies.

 

It's not wrong to expect your opponent to have a painted army, just as it's not wrong to expect them to behave in a pleasant and friendly way.

 

Remember this hobby is built around a social contract. Also the term hobby is key. GW aren't merely selling a game, they sell the full package of lore, gaming, painting, building, collecting, etc. These things are all connected and it's why it's addictive.

 

There will, of course, be exceptions and reasons for every eventuality, as was mentioned a post or two up.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Ishagu

[Lucerne]

But GW clearly intend for players to have painted armies. They spends thousands on painting tutorial, millions on paint range marketing and hobby supplies.

 

It's not wrong to expect your opponent to have a painted army, just as it's not wrong to expect them to behave in a pleasant and friendly way.

 

Remember this hobby is built around a social contract. Also the term hobby is key. GW aren't merely selling a game, they sell the full package of lore, gaming, painting, building, collecting, etc. These things are all connected and it's why it's addictive.

...What?

 

GW "intends" a lot of things. You'd have to be a complete stooge to care about any of it, especially their corporate puff pieces or how much money they spend baiting the metaphorical hooks. I honestly find it hard to conceive of any reasonable thought process related to GW profit margins when it comes to what the hobby community should be about.

 

GW is a company. It exists solely to drain the players dry with any enjoyment they make for themselves in that process a happy accident. What GW does or doesn't do is at best irrelevant as an argument and, at worst, Stockholm syndrome towards a corporation.

 

If someone likes painted armies, good for them. Painting is a fine aspect of the wider hobby. If someone wants to make them mandatory, then maybe the gatekeeping, if any, should be about keeping that sort of wannabe elitist out of the hobby themselves instead of perfectly reasonable people- including on this very page- that just want to play the game.

 

I have literally no idea what your last argument is even supposed to be. "40k is a multifaceted hobby that GW cheerfully has a lot of tendrils in exploiting"- congratulations, now what's the relevance to anything? Are you proposing a mandatory Black Library purchase and verified copy of DOW3 in your steam library before every 40k game now?

Edited January 15, 2020 by Lucerne

[Schlitzaf]

I mean its not direct pressure or directly hard time in fairness its more of a community just thing of playful fun poking at grey plastic armies or how folks mention “My army fully painted”, or people say “only with painted units.”

 

Stuff like that. Its not like someone telling me “paint your army”. Its just passive peer pressure. And like folks should be proud of their paint jobs. And then we have folks like Markosian, on the internet (no offense Marko) who act like I cannot be true hobbyist because I cannot/do not paint.

 

Makes me feel nervous posting or showing off my conversion work. Because of the “why not painted/not painted = auto bad”. And makes me feel like not a real “hobbyist”. Like I fine with tournament restrictions about paint jobs. Because tournaments are ultimately also partly advertisments too. I dunno. I just nots like active pressure just passive pressure.

[Lucerne]

I mean its not direct pressure or directly hard time in fairness its more of a community just thing of playful fun poking at grey plastic armies or how folks mention “My army fully painted”, or people say “only with painted units.”

 

Stuff like that. Its not like someone telling me “paint your army”. Its just passive peer pressure. And like folks should be proud of their paint jobs. And then we have folks like Markosian, on the internet (no offense Marko) who act like I cannot be true hobbyist because I cannot/do not paint.

 

Makes me feel nervous posting or showing off my conversion work. Because of the “why not painted/not painted = auto bad”. And makes me feel like not a real “hobbyist”. Like I fine with tournament restrictions about paint jobs. Because tournaments are ultimately also partly advertisments too. I dunno. I just nots like active pressure just passive pressure.

Passive-aggressive bs is still hostile bs and they should knock it off.

 

Your participation in the hobby on your own terms is just as meaningful if not more so than that of "Johnny Two Thin Coats", and they have no business trying to force their tastes on other, equally valid hobbyists. Never mind that conversion work is its own pillar of the hobby so the gatekeeping is doubly ridiculous, not that it should matter either way.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Lucerne

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I think it’s great GW actively promotes painting your army. It’s a big part of the hobby some people miss out on Plus it takes your mind off of everything else and can be quite relaxing.

[NTaW]

=][= Please remember we're having a friendly chat about whether or not you like painted models on the table. No one is making any rules here that anyone else has to follow. =][=

[Ishagu]

Oh I agree. I just don't feel that the act of making money is a bad thing or that business is inherently evil.

GW do exist to make money. It's the legal requirement the shareholders have them accountable for. No one is under any illusions - they are not a charity lol

 

It also doesn't mean the product they sell can't come from a place of love of the hobby and lore they have created. These things are not mutually exclusive.

 

I stand by my statement above. GW sells a hobby; It's not just a story, or a collectible, or a set of gaming pieces - it's all of the above. It's perfectly reasonable that many people will expect a range of things from those they play against or interact with in the context of 40k.

Edited January 15, 2020 by Ishagu

[Claws and Effect]

=I=

 

Getting a little heated here fellas. Simmer it down a bit please.

 

=I=

 

*mod hat off*

 

As for my opinion?

 

I like painting. Like Schlitzaf I have ADHD, but unlike him I find painting to be one of the things that slows me down enough to focus.

 

I also have the "just more painted than last game" criteria when it comes to the people I play with. I prefer to play against painted armies, but I also understand people have lives outside of the hobby. I'm not going to refuse a game because my opponent couldn't find the time to paint this week.

 

I won't bring an unfinished model to a game personally (except basing. 75% of my army is unbased), but I don't insist that everyone meet my personal standard.

[Lord Blackwood]

=I=

 

Getting a little heated here fellas. Simmer it down a bit please.

 

=I=

 

*mod hat off*

 

As for my opinion?

 

I like painting. Like Schlitzaf I have ADHD, but unlike him I find painting to be one of the things that slows me down enough to focus.

 

I also have the "just more painted than last game" criteria when it comes to the people I play with. I prefer to play against painted armies, but I also understand people have lives outside of the hobby. I'm not going to refuse a game because my opponent couldn't find the time to paint this week.

 

I won't bring an unfinished model to a game personally (except basing. 75% of my army is unbased), but I don't insist that everyone meet my personal standard.

Yea!  Down with Basing ! 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Basing can be fun too and is more easy than painting the actual minis for me but it’s typically the last thing I do.

[Lucerne]

For something more on topic, basing is a nice finishing touch for minis. I don't care for the default bases myself, but I can't say that I like the "transparent plastic" approach to basing. At the same time, overly scenic bases tend to just look a bit...strange in practice rather than in the painting logs?

 

I'm an oddball in that I think vehicle bases would really add a lot to an army, between the added height, base decorations, and tying it in with the rest of the force.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Dosjetka
=][= Removed off-topic content. =][=

[Zephaniah Adriyen]

I feel that painting is an option. You can rock a fully painted army and I'll praise you for it, or you can rock an unpainted army that's just built enough to play, I don't care either way when you put it on the tabletop. If you're following the rules of the game, I'll play you.

 

That said, I do prefer to play and play against fully painted models. As stated by others, 40k is partly about the visual spectacle of it, the act of effectively creating a different diorama every action. That is an optional part of the hobby. I'll play you no matter what your army looks like, if I can look at it and tell what things are, nothing's on a wildly inconsistent base size from what it was packed with and you're following the rules of whichever game we're playing (Kill Team, 40k, Necromunda, Apoc, whatever) as currently put out by GeeDubs.

[Tyriks]

Painting should not be required outside of events. We don't need the hobby to be any less accessible than it already is.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Dosjetka
=][= Removed off-topic content. =][=

[Lord Blackwood]

Painting should not be a thing that gatekeeps people from being part of the hobby. Folks should discover what makes them happy , what they can and want to devote their time to , and then pursue the hobby  in that way. 

 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Dosjetka
=][= Removed off-topic content. =][=

[battle captain corpus]

Ok.....two other Mods have clearly asked everyone to keep your heads cool and on topic and apparently you deem this implausible.

 

So, this topics shut down for a bit. Cool off and have some respect and listen to Mods next time, please.

 

Or you know....Crozius it is.

 

BCC