Land raiders?!

[Ulfast]

So, when I started custodes I learned from lot of diffrent people that i should never ever take a land raider in a custodes army. But is that really true today? Because after a point sink in chapter approved and with being a land raider (T8, 4 las cannon, hit on 2+, FNP 6+ etc), it seems we get pretty much. Also it´s a plastic modell which are in £ and $ much cheaper then FW similiar minatures. Another benifit is that they are legal in all tournaments ( I know some tournaments that don´t allow FW models) too. 

 

So what do you say, is a land raider a "new" option for us custodes players?

[Gore Crow]

I think the main problem is that you are paying for those AT weapons and the transport capacity but you're only going to be using one of those things effectively, so it's hard to use the points cost efficiently. It's still expensive, it still doesn't have an invulnerable save and it still will attract a lot of fire.

 

That said, I use it in casual games no problem; moving up with my -1 vexilla to offer an alternative to punching tanks to death.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Gore Crow

[Emicus]

They are crap. Stay away.

 

Unless you wanna play with a hand tied behind your back

[Gederas]

So, when I started custodes I learned from lot of diffrent people that i should never ever take a land raider in a custodes army. But is that really true today? Because after a point sink in chapter approved and with being a land raider (T8, 4 las cannon, hit on 2+, FNP 6+ etc), it seems we get pretty much. Also it´s a plastic modell which are in £ and $ much cheaper then FW similiar minatures. Another benifit is that they are legal in all tournaments ( I know some tournaments that don´t allow FW models) too. 

 

So what do you say, is a land raider a "new" option for us custodes players?

ANY Tournament that doesn't allow Forge World models isn't a tournament worth going to. Games Workshop owns Forge World. Games Workshop's rules writers are the ones who WRITE THE RULES for Forge World units in 40k. They're totally, 100% official.

 

Any tournament that disallows Forge World models should just flat-out say "The Custodes army is disallowed", because that means half the army list, including what makes it a viable list, is banned.

 

(sorry, I get really annoyed with this UTTERLY ASININE viewpoint regarding tournaments banning Forge World models)

 

That being said, Gore Crow and Emicus summed it up: In a casual game, sure, go for it. In a competitive/tournament setting? No, the basic Land Raider (the one Custodes get) is terrible for them, as even with the points drop, it's still too expensive for an already expensive army.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Gederas

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Well said, Gederas.

[Nicodemus Doloroso]

They are crap. Stay away.

 

Unless you wanna play with a hand tied behind your back

Let’s try to keep things constructive and responsive to the specific questions raised.

 

Forums like ours dedicated to under supported armies are vulnerable to descending into cesspools of negativity and acrimony and I don’t want to see that happening here.

 

So please provide insight into why Land Raiders are :cuss and how the points raised by the OP have not mitigated the issues with them. Blanket statements that they’re :cuss don’t help anyone’s appreciation of the hobby or success on the tabletop.

Edited January 20, 2020 by Nicodemus Doloroso

[duz_]

Not a discussion on the merits of allowing FW models at tournaments. Feel free to start a thread in Amicus.

[Ulfast]

I see the land raider as a pure anti-tank option and the transport is more of a free bonus. I never see it as something that I would trust to get my custodes forward. But it has it if I need it somehow. But for around 250p (I don´t have the book to check the point with me) it´s not so much more expensive then a basic  caladius which is a bit above 200p. Is the diffrent of 40-50p so much? I know we are expensive and need every point we can get but I still see it as a better option today then it was with the release of our codex.

[Dosjetka]

I honestly think that the only way you'll get a satisfying answer, Ulfast, is by putting your hypothesis to the test in your local gaming group(s). Each "meta" varies to some degree and what might work in one group might not work in another (and vice-versa). If you think the Land Raider is worth a shot in a Custodes army, give it a shot over the course of a few games and let us know how it went and why you think it worked well in the context in which you used it. :tu:

[Gore Crow]

I see the land raider as a pure anti-tank option and the transport is more of a free bonus. I never see it as something that I would trust to get my custodes forward. But it has it if I need it somehow. But for around 250p (I don´t have the book to check the point with me) it´s not so much more expensive then a basic  caladius which is a bit above 200p. Is the diffrent of 40-50p so much? I know we are expensive and need every point we can get but I still see it as a better option today then it was with the release of our codex.

 

Nothing is free  With it's weapons added on the land raider comes to 322 points while the Caladius is 210. It is better than it was but it's still not quite there yet.

 

However, as I said, I use one in my lists because I love the way it looks and it's fine in my meta - same reason I field my sisters of silence. 

[Ulfast]

Thanks, I think both of you are right, Gore crow and Dosjeka. I will try one out and see if it works :) If it cost over 300p then I can understand it´s very expensive. I thought it was around 250p :)

[Kenzaburo]

Gore Crow and Dos are on the money. If your meta is pretty competitive with min-maxed lists and loyal 32 everywhere, you might really suffer. If you have your layed-back beer & pretzels crowd, the way I do enjoy 40k the most, than the LR is quite alright - especially if you compare the price tag and availability with the Caladius.

 

I for one like my LR as a long range weapons plattform just fine. I don't like the look of the FW custodes vehicles, but a golden LR is a beast. :) And the Lascannons do help quite a bit while large parts of the army slog across the board. 

 

Could the Raider be cheaper pointswise? Sure. Should it get an Invul save? Probably - I wouldn't complain, that's for certain. But as it is, it's alright. Not great, but as long as you play mostly pure codex, it's not all bad - depending on your meta. ;)

[Charlo]

What the Land Raider does bring to the Custodes is accurate Lascannons, or more importantly; High Strength, AP & Damage shooting at long range. Some good rolls with four Lascannons can ruin anyone's day!

 

Transporting 5 AC infantry is also enough to achieve most anything. Not to mention it does still have a 6+ wound shrug.

 

When given -1 to hit from a Vexilla, I think you could certainly do worse than give a LR a go! Maybe even try two and build the core of the force around it. This would also then give you access to the 1CP Stratagem: Networked Machine Spirits which let you ignore penalties to hit rolls for both models. 8 Lascannon's that flat out ignore Eldar Aliotic Flyer negative to-hit stacking, Raven Guard/ Alpha Legion traits or the new Grey Knights negatives to hit? Now that's an anti-meta choice!

[Charlo]

I took it one step further and made a 1750pt list based on a Battalion with two Land Raiders, just be careful as they are 330pts each!!!

 

Trajhaan

Shield Captain on Jetbike - Auric Aquilis, Superior Creation

3x3 Custodian Guard (2 Spear + Miseriachrordia, 1 Sword + Shield)

3 Vertus Preators

2 Venerable Land Raiders - added Hunter Killer & Storm Bolter

 

Obviously something like this plays the objective game and needs to choose its battles, however I think it could achieve decent results in some ways! Trajhaan makes those Lascannons very efficient and if they can ignore modifiers then even better!

[NKirkham24]

I took it one step further and made a 1750pt list based on a Battalion with two Land Raiders, just be careful as they are 330pts each!!!

 

Trajhaan

Shield Captain on Jetbike - Auric Aquilis, Superior Creation

3x3 Custodian Guard (2 Spear + Miseriachrordia, 1 Sword + Shield)

3 Vertus Preators

2 Venerable Land Raiders - added Hunter Killer & Storm Bolter

 

Obviously something like this plays the objective game and needs to choose its battles, however I think it could achieve decent results in some ways! Trajhaan makes those Lascannons very efficient and if they can ignore modifiers then even better!

 

Interesting list that. I think when you tell your opponent you're playing Custodes, they'd be shocked if this list turned up. Could definitely take some by surprise. 

[Ulfast]

I totally agree, what a intersting list. I have one LR, should be intersting to see if I can get another one and try it out. I think it would surprise lot of opponents. 

[Fajita Fan]

Biggest problem with a LR is the same as it’s always been, they’re usually too expansive to take in pairs and one just gets shot early and often. Since 3rd edition I can’t remember the last time I’ve had a solo LR survive a game and when I started 40k my friends simply refereed to them as Fire Magnets. One of my friends took almost perverse joy in seeing how quickly he could knock out my GK’s LRC...
 

My first Custodes lists tried to pack two LRs running two squads up the board but my lack of bodies was scary. The way I try to build lists now is to first put 2k points of models into excel sans wargear then copy/paste those columns over to the side. When I start subtracting wounds to add wargear or transports then I see the opportunity cost. A pair LRs has a big opportunity cost! 

[Noserenda]

My Custodes Land Raider is called "Fire Magnet" for a reason :D