Primaris infantry ranged anti-tank, who does it better?

[Spyros]

It's Eliminators vs Hellblasters.

 

One 5-man Hellblaster squad with Hv.Plasma Incinerators, 175 points (6-man squad 210 points). You have to super-charged to get D2 but that AP-4 has to be sweet, right?

 

Two 3-man Eliminator squad, sergeant with Instigator carbine and buffing the two Las-fusils, 198 points. Less strength, less AP, D3 with hit and wound buffs from sergeant. Additionally, camo cloaks and concealed positions.

 

Same range, one shot per heavy weapon (so it's 5-6 shots vs 4).

Who does it better?

Edited January 24, 2020 by Spyros

[Panzer]

Eliminators any time.

 

AP-4 barely matters unless you shoot at Sv2+ stuff, better Strength doesn't matter either since the Eliminators get +1 to wound anyway. So all that's left is 6 D2 shots vs 4 D3 shots. Not just that the 4 D3 shots win out on average, you'll also lose the 6 D2 shots a LOT faster AND are more restricted where you want to place them to get good Line of Sight to your targets.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Panzer

[Spyros]

That's an awesome analysis! Thank you.

[Vermintide]

Juicy stats Panzer.

 

I should really get some eliminators to go in my backfield mini-castle- If what I've heard is correct they're not only deadly but tanky as hell in cover.

[Brother Cruoris]

How would the eliminators fair (compared to the two options above) if the Sargent also took a Las-fusil?

[The Unseen]

Napkin math says 6 Las-Fusils without buffing do 6.65 wounds to a T7 3+ target

So slightly less damage average, for more points, with the chance of the high end being 9 rather than 6.

[Fobzter]

If I remember correctly there is a tactics video on youtube about this. I think stock squad of eliminators with mortis rounds beat those helblasters too, sergeant shooting too me think.

[Majkhel]

If the sergeant is buffing, then he is not shooting. However once a casualty is taken, then he starts shooting, and having a fusil on him helps negate the damage output reduction. For a turn at least.

 

About the first question though, why would you bring heavy plasma, when you can take rapid-fire?

[Indefragable]

For me, the big draw to Eliminators is that they can infiltrate. I've only used them in two games so far, but being able to start up the board (with a 1+ sv in cover) is huge, IMO. Not only does it basically allow you to harass anywhere in your opponent's DZ, but it can also help draw fire from other units. The +1 To Hit from the Sgt can also be used to negate the penalty for moving; my last game I tucked them out of LoS and then moved them up to 2nd floor ruins. The +1 To Hit meant I was still hitting on 3's. 

[Panzer]

If the sergeant is buffing, then he is not shooting. However once a casualty is taken, then he starts shooting, and having a fusil on him helps negate the damage output reduction. For a turn at least.

 

About the first question though, why would you bring heavy plasma, when you can take rapid-fire?

 

Just remove the Sergeant first. No need to waste points on a proper weapon for him.

[Xenith]

Thoughts on a Phobos captain nearby and having the Serge with a fusil?

[Panzer]

You could do that, but why should you? Even with a Captain nearby it would perform better with the Sergeant just buffing the other two.

[Karhedron]

You could do that, but why should you? Even with a Captain nearby it would perform better with the Sergeant just buffing the other two.

Good point. Rerolling 1s to hit is significantly worse that +1 to Hit and +1 to-wound. Plus "Covering fire" is just downright annoying if your enemy wants to charge them.

[Xenith]

You could do that, but why should you? Even with a Captain nearby it would perform better with the Sergeant just buffing the other two.

 

That's what I was getting at, whether 4 shots with +1 to hit and wound is better than 6 shots rerolling 1's.

[Karhedron]

1 Captain buffing 2 squads with 3 Las fusils each will only do 8% more damage than 2 squads with 2 Las Fusils being buffed by their sergeants. It will cost a lot more points though.

[Xenith]

1 Captain buffing 2 squads with 3 Las fusils each will only do 8% more damage than 2 squads with 2 Las Fusils being buffed by their sergeants. It will cost a lot more points though.

 

That's good info, thanks. I guess if your overall strategy incorporates a phobos capt, like with quake bolts, it could be valid? 

[Karhedron]

That's good info, thanks. I guess if your overall strategy incorporates a phobos capt, like with quake bolts, it could be valid?

I think so. The Phobos Captain also has an Omniscrambler so there are plenty of reasons to take him. But considering that the buffs from his aura to Eliminators are not particularly cost effective, I would regard them as a bonus to take advantage of when useful rather than a tactic to build around.