A rose Watered with Blood - Man of Iron

[Vogon]

I’m not sure if this is the correct forum for this question and subsequent debate but none of the others seemed more appropriate.

 

I picked up a copy of the book A Rose Watere With Blood at the open day and have just finished reading it. One of the stories “Man of Iron” centres around the robot UR-025 From the Black Stone Fortress game. In it he claims

I have met the Omnissiah. The actual one, not the Earthling corpse

So the earthling corpse is obviously the Emperor, but who is the “Actual Omnissiah” and how would an ancient sentient machine have met him?

 

The C’Tan allegedly buried under mars? The Creator of the Men of Iron race? Something else entirely?

 

Any thought out there?

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

Edited January 28, 2020 by Vogon

[Beren]

The Omnissiah is one of those things where there's little clarity as to what it actually, is or if it exists properly at all. UR might have one concept of the Omnissiah that is different to the existing ones, though the fact it is an entity capable of being met without corruption or going insane could be indicative. It also at one point mentions "returning to the realms of men", indicating that it has been beyond the Imperium's borders for some time and could potentially have met 'the Omnissiah' during this period. "He would find you extremely disappointing""directed and the criminal techpriest is another interesting note as it implies an active (beneficent) interest in humanity.

[MegaVolt87]

Pretty sure its a C'tan, the void dragon. Emps fought + locked away something on Mars, 40k timeline has Necrons attacking Mars etc. Emps accepted being the Omnissiah, probably to draw power off belief in the Void Dragon. Its funny how he accepted being a diety of the mechanicum, though refused it when Lorgar saw it too. 

[Vogon]

Bergen, good point about being beyond the realms of men. The implication that the Omnissiah is an actual being is intriguing as is that someone/thing could meet it and have some form of communication with it.

 

MegaVolt87 the Emperor and the Dragon story never sat well with me. I admit to being a bit sketchy on Necron background but wasn’t the war in Heaven over and done with in deep time history, of the order of millions of years ago? So how was it that a C’Tan was still kicking around to be beaten by the Emperor? I admit that the background is filled with inconsistencies and allegory so I’m not too worried about this particular story. I do think that there may be a C’Tan under Mars but I’m not sure about the Emperor putting it there.

 

Thinking about this a bit more if Belief can give a being an increased presence in the warp (like the Chaos Gods and the Emperor) does the Omnissiah with the entirety of the Mechanicum believing in him/her/it have a significant warp presence? Just how long has the Mechanicum been worshiping it?

 

Sorry this is getting a bit rambling.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[Red_Shift]

I never really liked the C'Tan/Machine God theory. It comes from a time that the C'Tan were behind almost every conspiracy and thankfully a lot of that has been retconned. I prefer the idea that the Machine God is something else, beyond the borders of the Imperium. I think UR-025 is seeking a kindred spirit in the Blackstone and is in at least two short stories now. I was a little annoyed with 'A Rose watered with blood' because it was marketed to me by my local manager as exclusive content only available on the store birthday and the stories promptly tuned up in other publications.

 

The latest Blackstone anthology is worth a read if that first story snared your interest. I think its called vaults of obsidian and if you're interested I can find out the title of the other men of iron story for you later, after work.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Red_Shift

[Tyriks]

Bergen, good point about being beyond the realms of men. The implication that the Omnissiah is an actual being is intriguing as is that someone/thing could meet it and have some form of communication with it.

MegaVolt87 the Emperor and the Dragon story never sat well with me. I admit to being a bit sketchy on Necron background but wasn’t the war in Heaven over and done with in deep time history, of the order of millions of years ago? So how was it that a C’Tan was still kicking around to be beaten by the Emperor? I admit that the background is filled with inconsistencies and allegory so I’m not too worried about this particular story. I do think that there may be a C’Tan under Mars but I’m not sure about the Emperor putting it there.

Thinking about this a bit more if Belief can give a being an increased presence in the warp (like the Chaos Gods and the Emperor) does the Omnissiah with the entirety of the Mechanicum believing in him/her/it have a significant warp presence? Just how long has the Mechanicum been worshiping it?

Sorry this is getting a bit rambling.

Cheers

Vogon

Belief doesn't power the Chaos gods, emotion does. It doesn't matter if you're a lifelong worshiper of Khorne or if you've never heard of him, if you're hatefully murdering people you are empowering Khorne. The C'tan are also not connected to the warp so they could not be empowered by it anyway.

 

That said, not every C'tan was beaten during the Necron uprising against them. It's entirely possible the Void Dragon was still around after that. But as far as I know, no source has referenced any connection between it and the Omnissiah since before the 5th edition Necron codex so it's probably not canon anymore.

[Beren]

 

Bergen, good point about being beyond the realms of men. The implication that the Omnissiah is an actual being is intriguing as is that someone/thing could meet it and have some form of communication with it.

MegaVolt87 the Emperor and the Dragon story never sat well with me. I admit to being a bit sketchy on Necron background but wasn’t the war in Heaven over and done with in deep time history, of the order of millions of years ago? So how was it that a C’Tan was still kicking around to be beaten by the Emperor? I admit that the background is filled with inconsistencies and allegory so I’m not too worried about this particular story. I do think that there may be a C’Tan under Mars but I’m not sure about the Emperor putting it there.

Thinking about this a bit more if Belief can give a being an increased presence in the warp (like the Chaos Gods and the Emperor) does the Omnissiah with the entirety of the Mechanicum believing in him/her/it have a significant warp presence? Just how long has the Mechanicum been worshiping it?

Sorry this is getting a bit rambling.

Cheers

Vogon

Belief doesn't power the Chaos gods, emotion does. It doesn't matter if you're a lifelong worshiper of Khorne or if you've never heard of him, if you're hatefully murdering people you are empowering Khorne. The C'tan are also not connected to the warp so they could not be empowered by it anyway.

 

That said, not every C'tan was beaten during the Necron uprising against them. It's entirely possible the Void Dragon was still around after that. But as far as I know, no source has referenced any connection between it and the Omnissiah since before the 5th edition Necron codex so it's probably not canon anymore.

 

 

The Mechanicus Video game did, and iirc it's story was written by a Black Library author?

[Vogon]

I never really liked the C'Tan/Machine God theory. It comes from a time that the C'Tan were behind almost every conspiracy and thankfully a lot of that has been retconned. I prefer the idea that the Machine God is something else, beyond the borders of the Imperium. I think UR-025 is seeking a kindred spirit in the Blackstone and is in at least two short stories now. I was a little annoyed with 'A Rose watered with blood' because it was marketed to me by my local manager as exclusive content only available on the store birthday and the stories promptly tuned up in other publications.

The latest Blackstone anthology is worth a read if that first story snared your interest. I think its called vaults of obsidian and if you're interested I can find out the title of the other men of iron story for you later, after work.

Just had a quick look on the Black Library website and Vaults of Obsidian looks like it has the Man of Iron story in there so if there’s another one I’d be interested in that. As it is I might download Vaults next time my credit comes due on Audible.

 

Thanks.

 

Nemesor Tyriks I think emotions and belief are both at work, isn’t belief in the Emperor partly how he has such a presence in the warp and why the Chaos gods were worried about him becoming all powerful? I may be completely wrong here but that’s how I’ve always took it.

 

Cheers

 

Vogon

[Jareddm]

A C'Tan shard can still have just as much of an impact as a full C'Tan as far as influencing a world it is trapped upon.  We know there are still handfuls of loose C'Tan shards around the galaxy that either escaped the Necrons, or were never caught in the first place.  It also makes it more plausible for the Emperor to have fought and contained a shard rather than a full-blown C'Tan.

[Red_Shift]

@Vogon, Vaults of Obsidian has a UR-025 story called 'Shapes Pent in Hell' (a good story) as well as 'Man of Iron'. I thoroughly enjoyed the anthology for what it's worth.

[MegaVolt87]

Hopefully the Necron and C'tan lore is tightened up more in the future to sort out the open ends of it, links etc.

[Carach]

the point of this story is to give a gem but also not allude to anything.

 

the real omnilad could well have been like the original sentient AI. or some sentient AI network thing that was like 'transcended' heh. The original guy that made the AI their own masters and plunged the human race into a war of annihilation.

 

or it could be the c'tan - could even have been the imprisoned c'tan that influenced machinery, no?

Edited January 30, 2020 by Carach

[Moonreaper666]

the point of this story is to give a gem but also not allude to anything.

 

the real omnilad could well have been like the original sentient AI. or some sentient AI network thing that was like 'transcended' heh. The original guy that made the AI their own masters and plunged the human race into a war of annihilation.

 

or it could be the c'tan - could even have been the imprisoned c'tan that influenced machinery, no?

Probably the Void Dragon. Should the Mechanicus meet one of the last Man of Iron (or at least one that wasn't corrupted by Chaos) and learn the truth of the Omnissiah...

 

...things are going to get worse. That Necron Overlord bordering the Tau and Ultramarines COULD cause another Schism of Mars and get 1/3rd of the Mechanicus to defect to him

[Guest Triszin]

My own theory.

 

Omnissiah =  a DAOT Galactic Networked AI, that is also known as STC.

 

A FULL STC  is a "networked computer" that can connect with this Networked AI, you can query it and it will develop a solution.

 

The "fragmented" stc's humans find are STC's that can no longer connect to the network, and they have the last solution to the previous query before the fall.

[b1soul]

So the Omnissiah is Skynet. I can live with that.