Who counts as a Fallen?

[Indefragable]

@jaxom : the nicety of that scene made me think of the opening Crusades torture scene from Robin Hood: Men in Tights:  <delightful concierge smile> "Coming! We're so busy!"  (can't find a clip online unfortunately). 

 

@Knight-Master Skywrath: Azrael is totally kind of wigged out by Asmodai. As is the whole Chapter. Perhaps even the entire body of Unforgiven who know him. As is any remotely sane person. He's absolutely that awkward guy that takes things too far so no one really wants to hang out with him, yet oh boy does he get results so no one wants to outright send him away. Part of the reason I love Admodai: in a setting as bat- :cuss crazy as 40k, he's the guy that everyone is like "whoa! A bit too much there, eh fella?" 

 

*****
Regarding the OP's original question, presuming it is not trolling...

 

...I think it would depend on the timing of the coma'd Dark Angel. 

 

In the first few hundred years, I can see I Legion command being more sympathetic to his plight and have more of a screening process for such things. As time evolves and ideas get entrenched to the point that no one questions them or their intent anymore, it becomes much more of the joking-yet-not-really-joking views many here like Interrogator Stobz have espoused. We know that in "modern" 40k, only the Inner Circle knows the truth about the Fallen and fewer still know what really happened to Caliban all that time ago, so one has to wonder what exactly the (de?)evolution of their doctrines has been over 10,000 years. I find it hard to believe that on Monday it was 30k I Legion and then bam! Tuesday morning it was 40k Dark Angels the way we know them. There had to have been a gradual slide. 

 

 

[Irbis]

I am partially of the belief that he would have been killed when the planet broke apart. I don't think any of the Ruinous Powers would have cared a bit for a marine that was in stasis during the time of Luther. The Powers would have taken those that were corrupted or corruptible. The only exception would be the minor power of Malal which has not been in GW canon for a LOOOOONG time. That would be the one power to take those who were loyal at least to the Emperor and scatter them just to thwart the other Gods and probably the benefactor behind Cypher.

 

How? It would be perfectly in character for Chaos to take a few loyalists and dump them into spot X where they will A) lure the DA in to commit more boneheaded acts of treason and B ) lure them away from whatever Chaos goons are doing at the time to hand them a win by default. In fact, I am kind of surprised T doesn't drop a 'fallen' marine nearby every time DA are about to battle any Chaotic foe, maybe that would be too obvious and force Imperium to break his toy

 

You forget, this is Fandom!Dark Angels. Where they're a bunch of borderline Heretic psychopaths like Asmodai

 

I had no idea Ophidium Gulf was fandom?

 

I think you’re right that the Custodes, Guilliman, even the High Lords would not much care to expose the secret of the Fallen, even acknowledge it really. It’s kind of a private shame for the DA. A traitor is a traitor, and if the DA are hunting them down, then good. Who might care is the Inquisition, because it’s their business to be nosy, but to declare a half dozen or more chapters as Heretic when they are clearly not will just make Renegades of them and would be a terrible strategy for handling the Fallen issue. It’s a side show in the greater battle against Chaos, and surely Gman would know or appreciate that.

 

He might not care about their side battle, but he would care about DA being closet traitors who constantly abandon allies (or worse, murder them as in the case of company of BT above). Even if he would excuse it as being overzealous, it's still a desertion/disobeying orders at best and carries the same penalty as treason in virtually any military. If Lamenters can be sent on century long penitence crusade for helping supposedly loyal ally, once, then openly abandoning allies for 10000 years would be kind of worse case, wouldn't it?

[Interrogator Stobz]

So how much does Guilliman and the Custodes know? I'm genuinely interested.

 

PA4 explains that the GKs suspect something but don't actually know anything solid.

 

The Inquisition has been discussed and from what I've read they're still very inconsistent and know nothing concrete.

 

Various Chaos personalities know some things, and that is why the DA get played in so many stories.

 

The DA still protect the narrative like their lives depend on it, because maybe it does. Nothing like some good paranoia to keep one safe from outsiders.

[shabbadoo]

Let's say our hypothetical Dark Angel was on Caliban when it blew up and sent them all over time and space

 

This Astarte was in a coma before Luther pulled his coup and has no idea about it. He ends up in a Loyalist Imperial world a thousand years after the Heresy and then woke up.

 

Would the Unforgiven consider him a Fallen or one of their own?

I wrote a snippet of a story based on a situation similar to this. Seeing as this particular Dark Angel never fell under the sway of Luther, meaning turned from loyalty to The Lion/The Emperor (a requirement to be "Fallen"), he would simply be one of what I call "The Lost." When Caliban blew up and The Fallen were sucked into the Warp, they were not the only ones on the planet at the time. Remember, The Lion led a ground assault against Caliban, and he certainly didn't do it by himself. No doubt plenty of Loyalist Dark Angels were there to also be sucked into the Warp and cast across time and space along with The Fallen. And so I name those Loyalist Dark Angels "The Lost." No doubt some of them found their way back to their brothers over the millennia, but it is just as likely that there are still many who have not. If one of "The Lost" were to return much later, there would certainly be questions needing answering, but the usual thorough psychic probing would reveal that the Dark Angel was never anything but a loyal Dark Angel.

 

Verdict?

 

*NOT* one of The Fallen!

Edited February 1, 2020 by shabbadoo

[Moonreaper666]

So how much does Guilliman and the Custodes know? I'm genuinely interested.

 

PA4 explains that the GKs suspect something but don't actually know anything solid.

 

The Inquisition has been discussed and from what I've read they're still very inconsistent and know nothing concrete.

 

Various Chaos personalities know some things, and that is why the DA get played in so many stories.

 

The DA still protect the narrative like their lives depend on it, because maybe it does. Nothing like some good paranoia to keep one safe from outsiders.

The Black Legion is full of Fallen which produces more Fallen. A few of these BL Fallen should be Daemon Princes. I doubt the Unforgiven would last a day against the full might of the Black Legion, over 550k Marines plus the Vengeful Spirit and Planet Killer Mk. 2

 

The Dark Angels don't have the ability to permanently kill Daemon Princes like the Fallen Marbas

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Ok. Let me stop this trollbait before it gets any worse.

Good night sweet Prince.