Ritual of the Damned, game experience what's working/not

[Hantheman]

Another good performer in my 3 games has been the relic whirlwind scorpius. 

 

Hide it if possible, the extra DA range makes it inescapable. 6d3 str 6, -3, 2d shots is perfect for killing primaris and annoying fliers with natural reroll 1s to hit.

Edited February 4, 2020 by Hantheman

[SnakeChisler]

 

How many speeders are people running? The list I'm going to be running has 2 max units of 5 2 talonmasters and sammie is that too many?

 

I'm currently running 4 - 3 to get the 20" movement, and another one to add a bit of redundancy. That's already 324 points, which already feels towards the top end of my comfort level for unit sizes.

 

Game number 2 tonight, so another chance to see how they fare.

 

It's 330 for 10 Hellblaster's at 20 wounds with T5 V t4 for speeders the bonus is the range and greater anti infatry

[Cpt_Reaper]

How are non-first and second companies faring post PA?

[NCSUWolf]

 

I agree with the previously stated: PA:RotD seems to be spreading out focus a bit more than I'd like. I've now had 3 games (a tournament this past weekend) and while it did not go so well (1-2) I did find things I enjoyed:

 

Talon Master with Impeccable Mobility and Covus Occulus + Sammael + Nephilim + Black Knights (2x 5 man) was glorious in 2 of the 3 games. Game 1 vs Knights and Guard (2x Crusaders, 4x Morax with Lightning Locks, and 2x Warglaives) I went second and lost one squad of Knights and my Darkshroud. In response I slagged one of his Crusaders. The game was neck and neck until turn 4 when I failed to trap a guard unit with Sammael, Talon master and my last RWBK. 

 

Key Lessons: Supped up Talon Master shreds infantry squads; Nephilim are prime to trigger Signal the Attack; Darkshroud really didn't pull it's weight at all. 

 

Game 2 was inconsequential as it was vs Grey Knights on a board full of ruins/boxes making target availability nearly impossible so I was just shot (through walls via Astral Aim) off the board until he came out to Smite me to ribbons

 

Game 3 vs Slaneesh Daemons/Emperors Children TDA/NightLords Raptors everything was amazing: Bikes blasted infantry and then used Hit+Run to surge into his backfield; Smash Chaplain (not even fully buffed) counter charged and tore apart Raptors and Lords in equal measure. 

 

 

Our extra range from the super doctrine really makes alot of our units shine, especially things like Eliminators getting Grim Resolve reroll while staying in range. I'm very much looking forward to using it on units like Leviathan Dreadnoughts and Repulsors. Im also trying to work out Deathwing as Knights, on paper, look like they'll be absolute murder midfield without an excessive amount of support (Ancient with FnP Banner, maybe Asmodai and or Ezekiel arriving in a pod; use Sammael or Black Knight characters like an Apothecary to get into position). 

Sounds like a great few games (GK look to have had the rockets firmly strapped to them after PA4)

Might i ask, what was your list? It sounds very familar to my own go-to list. 

 

 

GK will be a force to reckon with for sure. 

 

My list was:

 

Battalion

Azrael, Warlord

Interrogator-Chaplain, Jet-pack, Power Fist, Relic: Shroud of Heroes, Litany: Recitation of Focus

 

Intercessors (10man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

Intercessors (5man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

Intercessors (5man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

 

Company Veterans, 5x Combi-Plasma 

 

Eliminators

 

Drop Pod

 

Battalion-Ravenwing Attack Squadron

Sammael

Talonmaster, Hero of the Chapter, Impeccable Maneuverability, Relic: Corvus Occulus

 

Scouts (5man), Snipers, Camo Cloaks

Scouts (5man), Shotguns, (Sgt) Chainsword

Scouts (5man), Shotguns, (Sgt) Chainsword

 

Ravenwing Black Knights (5man)

Ravenwing Black Knights (5man)

Ravenwing Darkshroud

 

Nephilim Jetfighter, Twin-Lascannon

 

 

 

My intent is to streamline the list towards more shooting. The Darkshroud is likely getting removed, the Nephilim is probably getting shelved, camo cloaks are out, Azrael might be downgraded. I'm also looking at the possibility of putting a Deathwing (Knights + Ancient) element if I can get the firebase worked-out. 

[Grimdark_Garage]

 

 

GK will be a force to reckon with for sure. 

 

My list was:

 

Battalion

Azrael, Warlord

Interrogator-Chaplain, Jet-pack, Power Fist, Relic: Shroud of Heroes, Litany: Recitation of Focus

 

Intercessors (10man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

Intercessors (5man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

Intercessors (5man), Stalker Bolter Rifle, (Sgt) Chainsword

 

Company Veterans, 5x Combi-Plasma 

 

Eliminators

 

Drop Pod

 

Battalion-Ravenwing Attack Squadron

Sammael

Talonmaster, Hero of the Chapter, Impeccable Maneuverability, Relic: Corvus Occulus

 

Scouts (5man), Snipers, Camo Cloaks

Scouts (5man), Shotguns, (Sgt) Chainsword

Scouts (5man), Shotguns, (Sgt) Chainsword

 

Ravenwing Black Knights (5man)

Ravenwing Black Knights (5man)

Ravenwing Darkshroud

 

Nephilim Jetfighter, Twin-Lascannon

 

 

 

My intent is to streamline the list towards more shooting. The Darkshroud is likely getting removed, the Nephilim is probably getting shelved, camo cloaks are out, Azrael might be downgraded. I'm also looking at the possibility of putting a Deathwing (Knights + Ancient) element if I can get the firebase worked-out. 

 

 

Thanks for the response.

 

I recentky dropped the Darkshroud and Azreal and was unsure on my decision.

 

The 4++ Azreal provides is lovely but that is the only reason i would take him given our built in re-roll 1's and methods to remain stationary after moving. At 150 points, hes simply too steep.

 

Likewise with the Shroud, so amny armies can mitigate the -1 to hit. if it were just slightly cheaper it would once again be an auto-include. OR if youre running a moving firebase. but maybe thats the point. Nothing should be an auto-include.

 

Saying that, The Talonmaster is an auto-include if youre running any Ravenwing. There is now a case for Sammeal on Corvex over Sableclaw given the buffs from the Talonmaster.

 

Ive realised that, after many games, my Hellbalsters are not pulling their weight. Maybe if i get a couple of Impulsors.......

 

Ive had one run out with 6x Aggressors using Stoic Prosecution and theyre MEAN!

Their sheer weight of shots will delete anything T7 or below.

Even more so if you use the Catechism of Fire Litany.

Though they are unlikley to survive past turn 2. Theyre the only reason i would take Azreal's 4++ again. 

 

im still not sold yet on Eliminators or Infiltrators though i will say that, in my last game, one unit of Eliminators soaked up a HUGE amount of fire before being removed.

 

Black Knights need to avoid the enemy lines as much as possible.

Im going to take some dakka bikes in suport to harress the enemy lines and hopefully draw fire away from my main threats.

 

Shroud of heros on the Smash Chaplain intrigues me. Though im looking at taking the Key of Achrabeal for that sweet buff!

[Hantheman]

So four games in, four wins with a fairly basic ravenwing list. I we get first turn the amount of damage we can put out is obscene. Land speeders with missile launchers give us much needed anti-tank or horde. Talonmasters and Sammy are obnoxious. I didn't enjoy my last two games becasue I won in first turn against decent players who could not outdeploy me due to our mobility and range.

 

Space Marines are very much better than anyone else now. We're not Iron Hands or Fists, ut as good as the rest. I'm actally considering not running the ravenwing characters outside of competitive lists now because they just do so much

[G8Keeper]

So four games in, four wins with a fairly basic ravenwing list. I we get first turn the amount of damage we can put out is obscene. Land speeders with missile launchers give us much needed anti-tank or horde. Talonmasters and Sammy are obnoxious. I didn't enjoy my last two games becasue I won in first turn against decent players who could not outdeploy me due to our mobility and range.

 

Space Marines are very much better than anyone else now. We're not Iron Hands or Fists, ut as good as the rest. I'm actally considering not running the ravenwing characters outside of competitive lists now because they just do so much

 

This is how it ended up when RW were decent before. I'd feel guilty playing them casually and didn't want to lose my friends so I toned down and lost a lot more games, causing me to lose a bit of love for DA for a while.  What can you do aye?

[Hantheman]

 

 

So four games in, four wins with a fairly basic ravenwing list. I we get first turn the amount of damage we can put out is obscene. Land speeders with missile launchers give us much needed anti-tank or horde. Talonmasters and Sammy are obnoxious. I didn't enjoy my last two games becasue I won in first turn against decent players who could not outdeploy me due to our mobility and range.

 

Space Marines are very much better than anyone else now. We're not Iron Hands or Fists, ut as good as the rest. I'm actally considering not running the ravenwing characters outside of competitive lists now because they just do so much

This is how it ended up when RW were decent before. I'd feel guilty playing them casually and didn't want to lose my friends so I toned down and lost a lot more games, causing me to lose a bit of love for DA for a while. What can you do aye?

Yeah I think I’ll move to some greenwing/deathwing fun for casual games. Talonmasters just do too much now for anything other than tournaments.

[sneakybamsen]

I ran a RW heavy list as I mentioned in another post and got ripped 3 games in a row at a tournament this past weekend. Due to my limited RW collection I cannot build the list I'd like, but I have a list in mind that I would like to be able to field (missing 2 nephilims and 7 speeders)

 

Sammael

Talonmaster

9 eliminators

4 typhoon speeders

8 assault cannon speeders

3 nephilims

 

1994 pts

[oldmanlee]

No troops that’s bold also I own all of that lol

[Skywrath]

1. If you are running Deathwing, run things that generate a lot of CP. So Azrael is an auto-take in any Deathwing focused army for his roll to get a CP back.

2. Deathwing Champion still remains fairly terrible even with the key of archangel relic. 

3. Boltstorm stratagem is amazing. Personally prefer auto-bolt rifle intercessors over stalker bolt ones/normal ones. Very useful to put a dent in heavy units.

Edited February 7, 2020 by Knight-Master Skywrath

[ValourousHeart]

I ran a RW heavy list as I mentioned in another post and got ripped 3 games in a row at a tournament this past weekend. Due to my limited RW collection I cannot build the list I'd like, but I have a list in mind that I would like to be able to field (missing 2 nephilims and 7 speeders)

 

Sammael

Talonmaster

9 eliminators

4 typhoon speeders

8 assault cannon speeders

3 nephilims

 

1994 pts

 

I'd suggest that you replace 2 of the assault cannons with Heavy Flamers.

Often you'll face an army that wants to cross the board, and so believes that they can catch you... And often they can if you aren't careful.

Half the armies out there that can catch you don't  do well when they get in range of 15 inch range, AP-2 Heavy Flamer.

 

I've been using Invictors War Suits instead of the Eliminators, but the Eliminators sound fun, I might have to try that.

 

 

No troops that’s bold also I own all of that lol

 

Running no troops is a lot of fun, you should try it.

It gets you out of the rut of running a battalion all the time.

It also makes you make better tactical decision instead of relying on CP to deus machina your bad decisions.

[Chaplain Elijah]

I played this yesterday which mark my first PA4 game :

 

V11 = 1006pts
 
/// HQ ///
Azrael = Sword of Secrets & Lion's Wrath, Warlord & Brilliant Strategist = 150pts
Interrogator Chaplain = Jump Pack, Crozius & Heavenfall Blade, Canticle of Hate, Master of Maneuver = 99pts
 
/// TROOPS ///
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolter = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolter = 62pts
Tactical Squad = Sergeant with Chainsword & Storm Bolter + 4 Marines with Bolter = 62pts
 
/// ELITES ///
Aggressor Squad = Sergeant + 2 Aggressors with Boltstorm Gauntlets & Grenade Launchers = 111pts
Company Veterans = Sergeant + 3 Veterans with Chainsword & Storm Bolter = 64pts
Deathwing Champion = Halberd of Caliban & Key of Achrabael = 90pts
Deathwing Ancient = Power Fist & Storm Bolter, Pennant of the Remeberance = 76pts
Deathwing Terminators = Sergeant with Power Sword & Storm Bolter + 4 Terminators with Power Fist & Storm Bolter = 165pts
 
/// TRANSPORT ///
Drop Pod = Storm Bolter = 65pts

 

 

Had a hard time playing it correctly and the fellow players were amazed by my very crappy rolls. Still they said and i agree it was my best list so far.

T2 they all freaked out when we (Thousand Sons player and me) put all those Terminators on the table

I'll probably play the same exact list again, hopefully it'll play out better next time.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Chaplain Elijah

[Berzul]

I hve had some REALLY good results with Whirlwinds, since PA4.

 

They are really cheap, fill up a detachment very quickly, and T1 they already can

 

Hide beyond LoS

Fire at 78"

Hit rerolling 1s

Hit with AP-1 or AP-2.

 

Ive used a Castellan Whirlwind to clear unreachable objectives and sneaky snipers/shield drones.

 

I am seriously thinking of getting a second, or even a third one. For 80pts a piece? I think it is a REALLY good unit. Benefited well from Grim Resolve and Devastator Doctrines.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Berzul

[Hantheman]

I hve had some REALLY good results with Whirlwinds, since PA4.

 

They are really cheap, fill up a detachment very quickly, and T1 they already can

 

Hide beyond LoS

Fire at 78"

Hit rerolling 1s

Hit with AP-1 or AP-2.

 

Ive used a Castellan Whirlwind to clear unreachable objectives and sneaky snipers/shield drones.

 

I am seriously thinking of getting a second, or even a third one. For 80pts a piece? I think it is a REALLY good unit. Benefited well from Grim Resolve and Devastator Doctrines.

 

It's a toss up between 2 or a relic scorpius for me. 6d3 shots that kill primaris and eldar bikes with ease.

[Chaplain Elijah]

Quad Mortar is better though.

[sneakybamsen]

Quad Mortar is better though.

Just not true. Quad mortars don't have the range or ignore LoS, so they don't quite fill the role.

[sneakybamsen]

No troops that’s bold also I own all of that lol

Yes, no infantry that can get locked in combat. Also the army should take little CP to play. Activate jink when needed, maybe use speed of the raven or the reroll hit rolls strat when being close enough with a speeder. Sammael should make that unnessesary though.

[sneakybamsen]

I'd suggest that you replace 2 of the assault cannons with Heavy Flamers.

Often you'll face an army that wants to cross the board, and so believes that they can catch you... And often they can if you aren't careful.

Half the armies out there that can catch you don't  do well when they get in range of 15 inch range, AP-2 Heavy Flamer.

I simply don't find the heavy flamer worth it, 14" range or not (8" plus 6 from dev doctrine). It's too few shots, they might automatically hit, but it's just too few. Two will average 7 hits, but a blob of 30 boyz don't care. Neither does 20 possessed or 20 Berzerkers. For them to shoot it means your speeders will unquestionably be too close to the enemy, the assault cannons will make it easier to avoid that becoming an actual situation.

[Grand Master Raziel]

I seem to be bucking the trend, in that I'm playing a list with a couple squads of Deathwing disaster riding around in a couple Land Raiders (one Phobos, one Crusader), with a Relic Sicaran along for hahas, and a few Scout squads for a battalion to get some CP. To be fair, I made the list before PA4 came out, but I only recently started to be able to play it.

I also haven't played it in a tournament yet, so I'm not claiming I've stumbled across a meta-busting sleeper hit. These are just the things I've noticed thus far.

The Banner of Remembrance and Transhuman Physiology are major boosts to the durability of Deathwing. Last couple of games I've played, they felt as tough as they seem like they should be. 

 

A Terminator Master with a pair of lightning claws and Master Crafted is a sleeper budget badass.  He can both shred large squads of cheap infantry and put a serious hurt on tougher targets.

People have mentioned the Deathwing Ancient's buffs. It's also worth pointing out that the stock configuration is a 2+ 5++ 5+++ character with 5 power fist attacks when charging, and that'll do some work. That said, he's actually a bit cheaper with a pair of L-claws and would have an additional attack.  For what he costs, that'd be terrifying.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Grand Master Raziel

[ValourousHeart]

 

I'd suggest that you replace 2 of the assault cannons with Heavy Flamers.

Often you'll face an army that wants to cross the board, and so believes that they can catch you... And often they can if you aren't careful.

Half the armies out there that can catch you don't  do well when they get in range of 15 inch range, AP-2 Heavy Flamer.

I simply don't find the heavy flamer worth it, 14" range or not (8" plus 6 from dev doctrine). It's too few shots, they might automatically hit, but it's just too few. Two will average 7 hits, but a blob of 30 boyz don't care. Neither does 20 possessed or 20 Berzerkers. For them to shoot it means your speeders will unquestionably be too close to the enemy, the assault cannons will make it easier to avoid that becoming an actual situation.

 

For me the heavy flamer is a defensive weapon, not an offensive weapon.  I'm not looking for a target to run up and flame.  I'm looking for a deterrent that makes my opponent second guess charging me.

 

I think you missed the part where I said "half the armies".  Of course there are armies that don't care about a Heavy Flamer.

 

However, I would like to point out that if a blob of 30 boys gets to you, then you've done something terribly wrong.  Same goes for 20 possessed or berzerkers.  5 boys is more likely and maybe 7 berzerkers is a more realistic number that will get to you.  Now I'm not saying that 5 boys can't wreck face on a unit of speeders, they defiantly can.  However 5 boys care a lot about a heavy flamer.

 

But not everyone plays Orks and Berzerkers.  Occasionally people play one of the 30 other armies out there.

[Chaplain Elijah]

 

Quad Mortar is better though.

Just not true. Quad mortars don't have the range or ignore LoS, so they don't quite fill the role.

 

 

Yes it does... maybe did you read just the Shatter Shells ? Because you get to choose your ammo when you shoot, that's what makes it better.

 

Rapier Carrier Quad Mortar Launcher 85pts

>>> Thunderfire Shells, 60'' range, Ignore Los

[FarFromSam]

Anyone else enjoying agressors? Our army seems suited to suiting up these units. Azzy gives them a much needed 4++ and reroll misses. Dev doctrine 1st turn gives them +3" range. Sammael WL trait helps them advance further. Asmodai grants Stoic persecution for double tap, and +1 attack.

 

I love taking azzy/asmodai, 3 5 man squad's of stalker bolter intercessors, and a 6 man aggressor squad. That's a cheap 38 4++ wounds that can put out dmg at range or CC for 750 points. And to boot it gives you 6 cp.

 

I'm impressed with the CC dmg intercessors put out when buffed with azzy and asmodai.

 

Also, I've seen speeders getting a lot of love here, but, I've had better results with the attack bike squads. Here's why:

 

77 pts speeder H. bolt, ass can. T5, 6W, 2 attacks.

74 pts 2 H. Bolt AB. with 2 twin bolters. T5, 8W, 4 attacks

 

More wounds, on bikes, but more importantly, can't be 1 shot since they are 2 models.

They Benefit from 4++ azzy bubble (not a selling point sure)

Can be healed/ resurrected from RW apothecary.

Can be used to call in combined assault. And worry a flank.

Can hide behind terrain a little easier.

 

At their cost, I'd take Whirl winds over speeders.

 

Just some of my thoughts. Good reading so far.

[Hantheman]

I can’t justify buying more ravenwing stuff

[Berzul]

Well, a player in my local store just got second place in a tournament there, with a list of nothing but landspeeders, talon masters, and sammael.

 

Only lost to a list of Emperor's Children which was 30 cultists, 20 noise marines, and 10 combi plasma terminators, led by a demon prince and a sorcerer.

 

That guy, incidently, won first place. His list was undefeated all throughout the tournament.

 

EDIT: Seems like speeders are "where its at" if you want to win competitive games. But emperor's children with 20 noise marines will still riff you out of the sky.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Berzul