Legions: What to take at what points levels?

[No Foes Remain]

Greetings all,

 

So I was messing around with some lists for my expansion plans for one of my armies and I was struggling to fit what I wanted in the list and had to cut out/cut down on some things then I started to wonder if that was wise. Then I started to think that I should be putting in what I need first then what I want second.

 

So this is my question to my more learned frators, what should you have at a minimum at, say, 1,500 points, 2,500 points and 3,500 points. In terms of basic units and firepower.

For reference I don't have a gaming group, so no local meta to go off and although the list I was making up was an Ultramarine list I thought it would be better to have this as a generic list that one makes up before factoring in Legion Specific stufff.

 

 

Thanks,

No Foes Remain.

[Marshal Loss]

The lists used in 30k are so large it's entirely dependent on what your local scene plays, so there isn't an easy or straightforward answer, which I know isn't particularly helpful. The best you can do is alter the number of scoring units & ability to deal with AV/superheavies as the size of the game goes up. E.G.

 

1500: 2-3 scoring units, no need to deal with superheavies. Unlikely to see a flare-shielded monstrosity

2500: minimum 3 scoring units, should be able to deal with (e.g.) a flare-shielded Spartan, depending on your scene also a LoW/Primarch + posse

3500: minimum 4 scoring units, must be able to deal with Lords of War/Spartans/Primarchs & deathstars

 

When I first started I always built my lists around the same core of units: usually 3x Grav Rapiers (the Hesh Kadesh special) and a Deredeo, along with scoring units suiting the army I was playing. I no longer stick to this template because I got bored of taking the same units/expanded outside of my Sons of Horus, but it always did well by me.

 

Mileage may vary. In a 1500 game there will never be a LoW and rarely something as nasty as a flare-shielded Spartan. In 2500 you'll begin seeing deathstars pop up, so you should have a plan to deal with them. In 3500 you categorically need the ability to either kill a LoW/deathstar or possess a game plan that enables you to play around them, and should keep in mind that at this points level infantry blobs have practically 0 survivability due to the insane firepower on display. Does your list have the capability to deal with an army that sits back and shoots? One that rushes across the board? One that deep strikes into your face? An army of monstrous creatures, negating the effectiveness of many of your smaller weapons? You don't necessarily need to be able to point at any given unit to deal with any of those problems, but it's good to ask these questions. 30k's depth is a big part of what makes it so much fun to play.

 

Just to muddy the water a bit, though, there really isn't a "generic list" you can build off. Legions get vastly different bonuses, unit selections and Rites of War, meaning they don't always deal with problems in precisely the same way. It is best to decide what Legion you're doing before you get too deep into list building so you can maximise the bonuses & cool stuff you're getting from their rules. If you post what you have/what you're building around forum members will probably be able to offer better advice

[No Foes Remain]

Marshal Loss thats very helpful, thanks!

 

My rough list is based around a mechanised company, so 10 man tacs in rhinos (3/4 depending on the points level) with 5 Suzarians in a Proteus with a Chaplain and my preator in a Phobos with a combi-charger vet squad with power weapons. All the real fire support I had aside from the two Raiders were 3 Predators with the auto/las combo with the command tank and machine spirit on them, as I wasn't really sure what else I should have as my fire support.

 

What sort of units should I be looking for to deal with LoW/Deathstars/Primarchs? I take it I should counter such things with my own but wouldn't that just make that unit target number 1 and after its death leave me in for a bad time?

[infyrana]

There were a lot of replies way back relating to how to take on Spartan's, that's what you want to search for.  Recommended to me were things like triple Graviton Rapier Batteries, vindicator las destroyers, lightnings, castellax w/darkfires, Sicaran Venator, Contemptors with dual grav fists/chainfists if you have a way to get them where they need be, or you could deliver your own unit.  But take all that with a pinch of salt since there's been a few years of changes since and I'm not a player ^^

[No Foes Remain]

There were a lot of replies way back relating to how to take on Spartan's, that's what you want to search for.  Recommended to me were things like triple Graviton Rapier Batteries, vindicator las destroyers, lightnings, castellax w/darkfires, Sicaran Venator, Contemptors with dual grav fists/chainfists if you have a way to get them where they need be, or you could deliver your own unit.  But take all that with a pinch of salt since there's been a few years of changes since and I'm not a player ^^

I keep seeing those units types mentioned when I search for related stuff but, as you have pointed out, almost all threads about them (not just on here but reddit as well) are at least a year old so I didn't really know how relevent they were.

[infyrana]

I guess you could begin by ruling some of the units out regardless of how good they might be now - ie can you afford the options available, are there enough HQ, elite or heavy slots available, do you actually want them for your particular RoW, fluff or playstyle etc, do they fit your Rule of Cool / 'Heck yeah I want that regardless of the rules' headspace?

[No Foes Remain]

The current RoW I have for my force is Armoured Spearhead just so I can give a few units Land Raider Proteus(Proteuses? Proteii?) to allow me to add in some characters to those squads, and the general idea for the list is a mechanised force. Though I was feeling that they are looked down on by the rest of the Legion as they are made up of Terrans and pre-Primarch Legionnaires and as such don't get the good stuff and have to deal with the older stuff that was going to be phased out, such as the Baneblade varians (as they were being phased out before the heresy).