b1soul Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 Russ shouldn't have been able to threaten post-Molech Horus Nocturne Noble and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Says who? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Russ shouldn't have been able to threaten post-Molech Horus You could argue that he didn't. Although the Spear was intended to be the leveller. Edited February 7, 2020 by Karhedron Nocturne Noble and BLACK BLΠFLY 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473669 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 says post-Molech Horus being an equal to the Emperor Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473709 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 And the Emperor was strangled by an ork. There is no empirical measure for these things. BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473721 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Casman Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 We should probably come back to the idea of a Loyalist Triumvirate? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473726 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 7, 2020 Author Share Posted February 7, 2020 "the Emperor was strangled by an Ork" you keep believing that simple sentence BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473736 Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaurdian31 Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Roboute, Alpharius/Omeggeon and Clone Fulgrim. You have a politician, a wet works operator and a tactician. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473751 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Alpharius is dead. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Guilliman killed Alpharius/Omegon, and the Alpha Legion made the Ultramarines believe that the kill wasn't confirmed to spread disinformation, whilst they themselves claimed it happened. Sneaky, sneaky. Edited February 7, 2020 by Ishagu Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuvassin Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) Back to the original question: It feels like (to me) that Russ and/or the Lion have been the two most-hinted to return (on the Loyalist side). The Lion I think adds a bit more, given his return would immediately complicate things given the whole nature of the Fallen and how it's been hinted that, tired jokes aside, they may or may not be loyalists, misunderstood, or at least otherwise redeemable. It'd be a great and complicated angle, but I also don't know that GW wants to open that can of worms, so to speak. Russ would also be interesting, given the fate of the 13th company as well as reviving / revisiting his relationship to Magnus. Besides them, Vulkan also seems one of the more plausible returns on the Loyalist side. The only real issue might be that I'm not sure his personality is easily distinguished from Guilliman's. Yes, they are quite different, with Roboute being somewhat more pragmatic in his idealism (if that makes sense) compared to Vulkan's, but in the grander scheme of things, I think Vulkan of all options presents the biggest risk of feeling like a twin of Guilliman rather than a true foil or counterweight. IMO they'd almost have to push Guilliman as an overreachingly ambitious Warmaster 2.0 being counteracted by an overly pious and loyal-to-the-Emperor Vulkan for it to feel like anything more than parallels of each other (IMHO, of course). As much as I like the Khan in 30k, I'm not sure what would make him a compelling return to 40k. I'm sorta indifferent to Corax or Dorn, tbh. There's also the possibility of using one of the loyalist primarchs to 'run' the Nihilus part of the Imperium. It'd let GW further explore that half of the galaxy, plus more 'indirectly' set up a rivalry between the two primarchs without forcing a confrontation or turning things into a three-way standoff between Guilliman, Abaddon, and the second Loyalist. Having said all that, to me it really does seem like Russ and Lion would be the safest bets. They add to two full codexes rather than to two supplements the way a Dorn or Khan would, would also possibly let those books gain access to some new unique units, like bodyguards or resurrected 30k units, and I think have more compelling additions to the 40k background - Russ as the 'fiercely independent barbarian' to Guilliman's 'civilized statesman' plus antagonist to Magnus, and Lion could even play the part of Nihilus commander, adding further intrigue to Guilliman's side (ie they start hearing rumours that the Fallen are in league with Lion in reestablishing order, but does that mean the Fallen were the good guys or that Lion and the DA have truly gone all in with their fallen brethren?) So I'd vote for Russ and Lion joining Guilliman as the likeliest scenario, albeit probably not in a true triumvirate (or more likely Guilliman officially announces them as such but the other two show almost no interest in actually functioning as such). PERSONALLY...I'd rather see some true shenanigans in the form of Alpharius returning (or the rumours of someone in that identity showing up) and taking control of the Nihilus side. I think it'd be a fun campaign/storyline arc to have Guilliman hearing rumours that not only has Alpharius returned (and returned to the living), but that him and his Alpha Legion are seemingly acting as loyalists in bringing order to the Nihilus region, with an entire arc of Guilliman desperately trying to either reach or contact the Nihilus side to figure out what's going on. Edited February 7, 2020 by Zuvassin Ishagu and mactire 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473825 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 7, 2020 Share Posted February 7, 2020 Guilliman killed Alpharius/Omegon, and the Alpha Legion made the Ultramarines believe that the kill wasn't confirmed to spread disinformation, whilst they themselves claimed it happened. Sneaky, sneaky. Dorn killed Alphy in the 30k novel Praetorian of Terra. Karhedron, Volt and Kastor Krieg 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
chapter master 454 Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Alpharius is dead. Is he though? After all, I could be Alpharius, Gulliman could be Alpharius, the Emperor could be Alpharius, Alpharius could be Alpharius! To be honest, out of all the "dead" primarchs, Alpharius coming back is something of the most paradoxical things possible: It would be equally awesome as it is bland. Though if they were to wake the Lion and find it was Alpharius all this time I would laugh! Slave to Darkness 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5473989 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 John French the author of the novel officially stated he’s dead as a door nail. Volt 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 "Russ as the 'fiercely independent barbarian' to Guilliman's 'civilized statesman' plus antagonist to Magnus" I think the above kinda applies to the Khan as well (though he hates being called a barbarian). His relationship with Magnus (his old friend for whom he almost got the VIth destroyed) also has quite a lot of potential. Russ and the SW are still, of course, a far more popular SM faction. I wouldn't want to see Dante pushed out of his leadership role in Nihilus just yet, but if it were the Lion returning, I think the Lion may at least want to run the show on Nihilus, or he would want the freedom to do his own thing (I guess this could be explored) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474019 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 EDIT: Russ also has the Wulfen angle to explore after presumably all that time in the Eye BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 EDIT: Russ also has the Wulfen angle to explore after presumably all that time in the Eye Russ shouldn't be a wulfen. This site has had the topic brought up about once a month and each time it's been found that writers, GW employees asked, and other sources say it isn't happening. I feel Simon Grant said it best though, "...and if/when Russ returns, he certainly shouldn't be a Wulfen. What most people get confused with is the difference between the Mark of the Wulfen and the Curse of the Wulfen. The Mark is more to do with Russ’ genetic legacy, so you can have Blood Claws that grow canines worthy of a Long Fang, and warriors that are more hirsute, or grow enormous in size (like Haegr and Ranulf the Strong). The Curse of the Wulfen is more of a spiritual curse that originated with Wulfen himself." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLΠFLY Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Does he have canis helix ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Does he have canis helix ? No. Canis Helix was made by the Emperor after finding Russ. It was made for the purpose of bringing the old men of Russ companions to be Space Marines. The first Wulfen (his name was Wulfen also, no seriously it was) was made at this time. It is said that he was bitter of Russ and when he transformed his first action was to attack Russ and was slain. Russ than stated any that partook of the Cup of Wulfen and was evil would become a Wulfen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474076 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 Is this second edition lore? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474083 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Lol it might be, but GW is funny with the lore. Unless it's expressly retconned you have to assume it still applies. It's why stuff like Zoats and Squats are still a thing, getting recent models despite the lore not mentioning them for ages. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474090 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 (edited) Is this second edition lore?The Emperor making the cup of Wulfen was in 7th I believe (maybe 8th I didn't read the lore in 8th yet). The first Wulfen was in Space Wolf Omnibus, which is still in production Edit: I just remembered the SW Omnibus was just printed as a 20 year anniversary edition, which makes me think it is still very prevalent. Edited February 8, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474093 Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted February 8, 2020 Author Share Posted February 8, 2020 I ask because a space marine named "Wulfen" being the first Wulfen sounds like something from the early whackier fluff Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474204 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Triszin Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 I ask because a space marine named "Wulfen" being the first Wulfen sounds like something from the early whackier fluff wulfen are literally named after the first marine, Wulfen, who became a man wolf thing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474225 Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACK BLŒ FLY Posted February 8, 2020 Share Posted February 8, 2020 Just think if he’d been named Harry or something ... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/361757-primarch-triumvirate/page/2/#findComment-5474229 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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