b1soul Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 I still think GW probably won't pull the trigger on Sang or Ferrus unless there's massive market data indicating huge guaranteed profits of they do so. If they ever want to instantly boost sales, they could bring back Russ and the Lion without butchering a central sacrifice of the setting. If they bring back Sang then they might as well reawaken the Emperor... Brother Sergeant Tiberius 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Shift Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 My preference would be for Dorn and Jaghatai to return. Both crusading rather than administrating and Dorn heading up the Inquisition and some of the existing Imperial institutions and clashing with Guilliman and his reforms. It would be cool if it turns out he has just always been there but directing things from behind scenes and taking on a bit more of a Malcador role. We can see in the heresy series that the two worked together a lot and I've wondered after reading 'the chamber at the end of memory' if upon malcador's death all of the false memories/psychically manipulated forgettings unravelled. Dorn would be in a weird place, the Emperor on the throne, Malcador and Sanguinious dead and the Emperors dream broken. We know that Dorn found the Emperor after the battle with Horus and he received his final instructions; what else might he have said? Dorn and Jaghatai could be following a very different agenda to Guilliman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 A lot of interesting arcs they could go with... Russ either as a grizzled Old Man Logan/Russ character, a wizened Odin-like figure, or a semi-feral Wulfen (the least interesting option IMO) Corax as the only Loyalist primarch to fully tap into his Warp essence. Like the Shadow meets The Hunter version of Drizzt Do'Urden. He's also less sane. Dorn as a hyper-aggressive warrior along the lines of Fafnir Rann or post-Siege Sigismund...or a behind the scenes influencer who works with Custodes Eyes of the Emperor The Khan would work best if he comes to terms with the need for him to rule (or at least participate earnestly in the Imperium's governance) rather than just riding like the wind and hunting his foes. His arc would be one of recognising necessity and maturing for it. Would love to hear thoughts on the Lion and Vulkan. Doctor Perils 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freakshow668 Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 I think at this point it's more likely that GW would have Cawl create some new Primarchs (Primarisarchs?) Than resurrect old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 A lot of interesting arcs they could go with... Russ either as a grizzled Old Man Logan/Russ character, a wizened Odin-like figure, or a semi-feral Wulfen (the least interesting option IMO) Corax as the only Loyalist primarch to fully tap into his Warp essence. Like the Shadow meets The Hunter version of Drizzt Do'Urden. He's also less sane. Dorn as a hyper-aggressive warrior along the lines of Fafnir Rann or post-Siege Sigismund...or a behind the scenes influencer who works with Custodes Eyes of the Emperor The Khan would work best if he comes to terms with the need for him to rule (or at least participate earnestly in the Imperium's governance) rather than just riding like the wind and hunting his foes. His arc would be one of recognising necessity and maturing for it. Would love to hear thoughts on the Lion and Vulkan. Did they really retcon Dorn? He should be dead. Russ, Corax, Khan, Vulkan (ugh...) should truly be the only options. Rob, Russ, Corax, Khan vs Fulgrim, Magnus, Angron, Mortarion Makes too much sense for them to do it that way I guess. Special Officer Doofy 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 "given the Khan has seemingly spent the last 10,000 years in Commorragh" Which source says that? As far as I know, that's pure fan speculation. You could speculate that Russ is dead based on his recovered armour...or he has been tortured on a Daemon planet in the Eye/Rift...or Vulkan is perma-dead...or Corax is Lorgar's prisoner or he has devolved into a feral Warp creature. Any of the above would be equally likely (or unlikely) Because his Index Astartes article has the White Scars saying he was "drawn" into Commorragh while fighting Dark Eldar, and he hasn't been seen since. The White Scars maintain that he and his veteran warriors fought the leader of one of the murderous alien kabals and they were drawn into the horrifying realm that exists outside of space and time to battle the Dark Eldar for all eternity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 23, 2020 Author Share Posted August 23, 2020 (edited) Sure...but Corax and Russ were drawn into the Eye and not seen since. Why no speculation that they're dead or in captivity there? The Eye is infested with Daemons and Chaos warlords. You have some extreme heavy-hitters residing in the Eye capable of taking on a loyalist primarch. Frankly, I think the Eye is probably just as if not more dangerous to a primarch than Commoragh. Russ' empty armour was even found by the SW. Just think the Khan theory could easily be applied to his brothers who shot off into the Eye. Frankly, I doubt any of them are in captivity. Edited August 23, 2020 by b1soul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 23, 2020 Share Posted August 23, 2020 All of them are currently occupied, thats not the point. The point is which of them, canonically, are available to return. Sang, Ferrus, should not be on that list, ever. Redrandy93 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 I think they may have retconned Dorn. The skeleton in amber business is no more. I think it's just his hand (if even that) now. Someone please confirm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Never said he was definitely dead, just that he's one that hasn't made any mythic promises to return at the ordained hour, or been shown as existing since as a semi-daemon, or been shown to be almost literally impossible to kill. There has been no foreshadowing of his return, and yes, I'm also more of the opinion that Corax would be better served storywise as dying in his quest for redemption in the Eye, with maaaybe Russ returning at the "Wolftime". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 Russ' mythic promises or Corax's Warp shenanigans don't militate against their captivity or imprisonment in some form...maybe against their outright deaths Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Those are just story hooks b1soul. It's not like they are missing their heads, or killed by the power of a united Chaos Champion. If more loyalists are ever made, it will have to be the expected ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) Russ' mythic promises or Corax's Warp shenanigans don't militate against their captivity or imprisonment in some form...maybe against their outright deaths Ok, let me state this clearly. I just gave an opinion on Scribe's "Loyal 4" of Rob/Russ/Corax/Khan, saying that out of those, 1 is already back, 2 we have seen at least second-hand evidence of post-departure (Russ appearing in Rune Priests visions prompting their hunts), and that 1, the Khan, disappeared 10,000 years ago and we have received absolutely no further information on since. As such, I gave my opinion that I, personally, in my opinion, find it more likely that we'd see Vulkan as a potential "Loyal 4" member, given he also has been seen in the years since his initial disappearance. You seem oddly defensive over this. Edited August 24, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion BLACK BLΠFLY 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Me? No, I'm fine with that swap. Vulkan was even seen in fluff recently no? The Beast series? Lord_Caerolion 1 Back to top Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Sorry, that was a response to b1soul, who seems to be taking my replacement of the Khan with Vulkan personally. You just happened to hit the reply button a few seconds before I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) Alright everyone cool their heads. This is 40k, there is a chance for anything to happen, even if we don't see sense in it. There has been many theories how x-primarch could return. There is no reason to get upset if someone's list differs than yours. I honestly believe that any Primarch could come back. I remember during the first Mortarion rumors, I was told it wasn't going to happen because Morty wasnt "a major player". Edited August 24, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 Sure...not arguing that your opinion is wrong or invalid or anything I think Vulkan is unlikely to be perma-dead. I don't think Russ, Corax or the Khan are likely to be anyone's slave or prisoner. The Lion is still sleeping and has a chance of being awakened and even Dorn might be brought back somehow. Just find it weird that people think a trip to the Webway or Commoragh is more likely to result in a captured primarch than a trip to the Eye. I just find that logic odd, IMO of course... Yes, the Khan could be a Dark Eldar gimp slave or dead at the hand of Mortarion. All possible...agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I know that out of the two, the Eye is worse. Still, we've not heard anything, at all, in 10,000 years. We have heard from Corax/Russ, we have from Vulkan, we have from the Lion. That's why I think it more likely that we'll see the others. It's not that they were in less danger, it's that we've had some form of proof of life after their first disappearance. I just think that if the Khan was coming back, we'd have seen some sort of hint from GW over the decades. Anything at all, a mystic vision, a legend from a captured prisoner, a piece of his wargear on the other side of the galaxy. We haven't had any of that. We also haven't heard from Dorn, which is why I believe he's dead too. I could still see him coming back, but again, I think it fits his arc better to have died defending against one of the earliest Black Crusades. You're right, nothing's guaranteed. I just believe it's more likely that the ones we've heard of more recently are still kicking than the ones that have had 10,000 years of radio silence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 I know Corax manifested in a Warpy shadow-killer form in the Thorpe story set during The Scouring. I think he may have been referred to more recently by WB (i.e. M41 or M42)? Could you remind me which story that was? Russ...I can't recall more recent mentions other than the SW have a feeling he is close to returning. Khan...there was a hint in Ashes of Prospero and portents of his possible return in The Last Hunt, but nothing concrete. I think Corax may have the strongest case actually. I think an attempt by Guilliman to awaken the Lion (and how finds out about his presence on the Rock) would make for a great "next big thing" after Plague War wraps up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Wait, I forgot the Lion? LOL. Rob, Lion, Russ, Khan. That's gotta be the best 4. Rob, we have him duh. Russ, SW fanboys are a ravenous horde, easy sell. Lion, Dark Angels are a big thing, way more than Raven Guard (sorry!) Khan, the outsider, but could be a very cool model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) I know Corax manifested in a Warpy shadow-killer form in the Thorpe story set during The Scouring. I think he may have been referred to more recently by WB (i.e. M41 or M42)? Could you remind me which story that was? Russ...I can't recall more recent mentions other than the SW have a feeling he is close to returning. Khan...there was a hint in Ashes of Prospero and portents of his possible return in The Last Hunt, but nothing concrete. I think Corax may have the strongest case actually. I think an attempt by Guilliman to awaken the Lion (and how finds out about his presence on the Rock) would make for a great "next big thing" after Plague War wraps up. Corax warp shade thing happened in Shadow of the Past. Russ has been giving Grimnar visions since Warzone: Fenris, additionally a large grey battleship of ancient origins was spotted at Cadia blasting through Black Legion fleet Khan, was foretold by Njal Stormcallers vision in Ashes of Prospero. He makes a few hints. A sleeper in rock. A white storm upon a chariot, and a shadow answering the Emperors call. He also mentions traitors a eater of worlds, a corpse king, a misbegotten child, the cyclopean friend, and the golden one. Should be noted Ashes of Prospero should be considered "soft cannon" now. Edited August 24, 2020 by Jarl Caldersson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aramis K Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Ghost Ferrus leading the Legion of the Damned. I think any returning loyalist would be one they could most easily slot into any imperial army and head a new supporting model line. And any other returns I think they'd have to be transformed somehow to up their power level and be more centrepiece minis, to match the Chaos side. Not just an action man on a rock. So a Dreadnaught Dorn, Shadow Corax, Odin wolf Russ, Shard of Sanguinus etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Caerolion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 The Emperor also makes a reference to "fixing" Ferrus if he had enough time in one of the HH shorts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b1soul Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 I believe Shadows of the Past is set during The Scouring. Is there any mention of Warpy Corax active closer to current 40K? I think he got a mention in another work...title eludes my memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smileyjim Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I think it would be a shame if dorn came back. I mean at that point you may as well have ferris stroll along after him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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