Tempestus Scions - New Rules Discussion

[jaxom]

I figured it'd be appropriate to start a new thread to talk about Scions. They're getting an absolutely mold-breaking update. Six named Militarum Tempestus regiments are getting new Regimental Doctrines (really five, but we'll get to that). It's no long all about maximizing volume of fire within half range (at least all the time). Each named regiment is also getting a Regimental warlord trait, Regimental stratagem, and Regimental relic. All this in addition to eight new Militarum Tempestus universal stratagems (any maybe relics).
 

43rd Iotan Dragons
RD - Crack Shots: Add 6" to the Range Characteristic of Rapid Fire weapons models with this doctrine are equipped with.

WLT -Precision Targeting: Select an enemy unit within 18" of the warlord; when resolving attacks from 43RD IOTAN DRAGON units within 6" of the warlord ignore cover against the selected enemy unit.

 

Strat - Drilled to Perfection: (1 CP) Overwatch hits on a 4+ until the end of the Charge phase.

 

Relic - Emperor's Fury: Pistol 3 plasma pistol (can overcharge, "bearer is destroyed" on a one), replaces plasma pistol.

A versatile doctrine. Extends the range of the ubiquitous HS-lasgun to a more standard 24" which lets your basic troops fight on a more equal footing if you want a more infantry based force. On the saucier side, it extends the range of plasma guns to 32". If you plan on using squads in transports or with Aerial Drop then you can now do so and rapid fire from more than 9" away. Tauroxes (and Primes) only benefit if upgraded to have Storm Bolters.
 

9th Iotan Gorgonnes

RD - Resolute Heroism: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by an INFANTRY model with this doctrine against the closest enemy unit, an unmodified roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.

WLT - Sanctity of Spirit: Enemy psychic tests within 24" cause Perils of the Warp on any doubles.

 

Strat - Daring Descent: (1 CP) One 9TH IOTAN GORGONNES unit using the Aerial Drop ability can deploy anywhere more than 5" away from the enemy rather than 9"; the unit cannot charge that turn.

 

Relic - Blessed Boltgun: 12" Rapid Fire 1 S5 AP-2 D2 (D3 vs Psykers) boltgun, replaces boltgun.

Very similar to the original Storm Troopers doctrine, but instead of proc'ing within half range it is against the closest unit. Workable and relatively reliable considering the short range of HS-lasguns. I feel like I'm missing something (or maybe the WLT or Strat bring something to the table) as otherwise I think you'd get more out of extending rapid fire range. Specifically doesn't benefit VEHICLES so no additional reason to favor Tauroxes over Valkyries.
 

55th Kappic Eagles

RD - Mobilised Infantry: INFANTRY models with this doctrine do not suffer the penalty for moving and firing Heavy weapons. When resolving an attack made by a model with this doctrine in a turn in which it disembarked from a TRANSPORT, add 1 to the hit roll.

WLT - Master Vox: When using this Warlord's Voice of Command ability, it can issue orders to friendly 55TH KAPPIC EAGLES Infantry units within 24". In addition, while this Warlord is embarked within a TRANSPORT model it can still use its Voice of Command ability; when doing so make any measurements from that Transport model's hull.

Strat - Tactical Misdirection: When a 55TH KAPPIC EAGLE unit kills an enemy unit, in the opponent's next shooting phase, any enemy model has -1 to hit against all other units so long as the 55TH KAPPIC EAGLE unit is the closest visible unit from your army to that model.

Relic - Distraction Charges: 3" aura for friendly Overwatch attacks, a hit results in halving the enemy Charge roll (rounding up).

The 55th Kappic Eagles are the studio army poster boys for the Scions so I guess it makes sense half their doctrine only benefits the only unique Scion infantry weapon which happens to be their only infantry heavy weapon? The second half of the doctrine is great for a command squad full of plasma. I could see a force where the troops squads have two HS volley guns a piece and walk up the board with supporting fire while Valkyries drop plasma command squads where needed. The WLT would be useful as your force would be more likely to get stretched out. One thing to keep in mind is that if in a Valkyrie then you could measure from a wingtip.
 

133rd Lambdan Lions

RD - Prized Weaponry: Improve the Armour Penetration characteristic of weapons models with this doctrine are equipped with by 1 (e.g, AP 0 becomes AP -1).
 
WLT -  Keys to the Armoury: 6" aura of re-roll hit rolls of 1 for attacks with ranged weapons in 133RD LAMBDAN LIONS units.

 

Strat - Gifts from the Mechanicus: (1 CP) The chosen 133RD LAMBDAN LIONS unit inflicts a mortal wound with HS weapons on an unmodified  wound roll of 6 and the attack sequence ends.

 

Relic - Refractor Field Generator: 6" aura which gives a 5++ invulnerable save to all 133RD LAMBDAN LION units.

 
Prized Weaponry is the first RD that I think promotes a Taurox Prime heavy force. I don't think I need to explain. Aerial Drop the troops as a distraction and let a line of autocannons and turret-mounted weapons shred things from a distance.
 

54th Psian Jakals

RD - Death From The Dark: Each model destroyed by an attack made by a model with this doctrine in your Shooting phase is treated as 2 destroyed models in the following Morale phase.
 
WLT - Skilled Tracker: Redeploy three 54th PSIAN JAKAL units at the start of the first battle round before the first turn.

 

Strat - Elusive Hunters: (1 CP) Use when a 54TH PSIAN JAKAL unit is targeted; until the end of the phase, enemy units have -1 to hit if firing from more than half range away from the targeted 54TH PSIAN JAKAL unit.

 

Relic - The Hound's Teeth: replaces a chainsword, Melee S+1 AP-2 D2 +3A and re-roll wounds against AELDARI

 
Make Scions spooky, spooky-spooky Scions, human hand! Ahem, that is to say, this is great right up until it isn't. Armies with Leadership shenanigans (immune to Morale Tests, use unmodified Leadership, only lose a single model, etc) thank you for using this RD. As mentioned elsewhere on the internet this is otherwise vicious. Enemy armies may end up hemorrhaging CP to autopass Morale Tests rather than deal with what is likely to end up as a -4 to -10 penalty on their roll. Taurox Primes (particularly with battle cannons or missile launchers) are once again promoted as they give some much needed range to get the enemy started on Morale Tests from turn 1.
 

32nd Thetoid Eagles

RD - Predatory Strike: When resolving an attack made with a ranged weapon by a model with this doctrine against a unit that is within half range, an unmodified hit roll of 6 scores 1 additional hit.
 
WLT - Uncompromising Prosecution: 6" aura where 32nd THETOID EAGLES HS weapons become AP-4 on a wound roll of 6.

 

Strat - Full Charge: (1 CP) Choose a firing 32ND THETOID EAGLES TAUROX PRIME; until the end of the phase you can re-roll hit if the target is within 12".

 

Relic - Fire of Judgement: Replaces HS laspistol, 12" Pistol 2 Str 3 * AP * D, because successful hit rolls inflict 1 mortal wound on the target and end the attack sequence (why does it even have strength?)

Inheritors of the Storm Trooper doctrine except it's now unmodified 6s. Bonuses to hit rolls no longer help, but - and I could use confirmation or negation - you still score an additional hit on a rolled 6 if it would be modified to become a lower value. What's fun though is the relic. If you roll a 6 to hit then its another successful hit and successful hits are mortal wounds. The odds are against it, but I look forward to eventually hearing about the four mortal wounds that killed [insert scary unit here].
 
We've also been shown two of the universal stratagems. Progeny of Conflict is the relatively common, "give a second character a warlord trait" strat. Precision Drop is now a 1 CP stop-and-shop which has its previous benefit (models can't get destroyed when using Grav-Chute Insertion) and deploy within 5" of an enemy unit. Hello 9" rapid fire range and 6" meltagun range.

Edited February 18, 2020 by jaxom
Quotes fixed :)

[WarriorFish]

I've fixed the quote tags for you :tu: This is a good idea hopefully we can find out more soon. I agree that a couple of the traits seem a bit lacklustre - exploding dice are nice but you want plenty of shots to get the most from it. Then you consider that if you have that many shots, isn't a consistent buff like an additional pip of AP better? The morale one is nice but unfortunately too many armies can ignore morale, even so I'm still tempted as it could really help Stormies out against hordes. Plus mine have skull face paint too

 

We'll be able to see more when we get the fuller picture, but it's exciting to see Tempestus Scions finally getting some attention after being ignored so long. We can only hope that this will lead to some plastic love in the near future!

[TEMPESTOR 6773]

Prized Weaponry looks like my favourite as it makes my taurox primes gattling cannons nasty and I have a load of grenade launchers that might see some games now for those ap-2 Krak grenades

[ImperialSquishiness]

My scion force I'm building will likely be a Kappic Eagles force with the specific WL trait. Drop 3 Command Squads toting plasma/melta out a valk, put laurels of command on the warlord and stick him in a supporting valk. Potential to get FRSRF off on both the plasma squads and take aim with laurels. Then spend a CP to order the melta squad, so elimination protocols and then hopefully take aim. It's a big bomb of death...

[CaptainMarsh]

Notes: Strategem for the Kappic Eagles is that you get -1 to hit any unit other than the KE unit that just killed one of your units. Relic for the Lions is a 5++ invulnerable, the writing there makes it seem like a FnP. The Lions strategem is for *all* Hot-Shots, not just Volley Guns.

[mertbl]

I like the lions. It should help a bit with surviving return fire.

[GrinNfool]

After seeing all the relics, warlord traits, strategems, and regiment rules I think there are several that are quite viable.  So in no particular order below is my first impressions of the different regiments.

 

Thetoid Eagles -  Regimental ability is ok, extra hits is good, and no modifiers is useful for all the heavy weapons between tauroxes and volleys.  With the number of shots scions a 5 man squad probably gets ~ 2 extra hits and a FRFSRF probably finds 6 bonus hits.  Good relic, warlord trait is kinda eh to me, not bad but not great, the strat kinda falls apart here though.  Overall I think the fact I don't consider this one of the front runners (strat hurts a lot) a testament to how strong I feel the rules scions got are.  Probably my 2nd place finisher for supporting scion play though (deepstriking supporting another larger force)

 

Kappic Eagles - Regimental ability is actually quite solid, making hotshot volley guys quite effective, and helping alpha strike via hitting on 2s.  Relic is suprisingly quite good here, this turns a 5" charge into needing a 10, and all you need is a hit... meaning if you have a flamer it auto activates, its certainly limited but its quite good for what it does.   Warlord trait is quite nice, scions are pretty limited on orders in the first place, so being able to have more reach to give those orders is very nice especially being in a vehicle.  Strategem is VERY nice, people overlook scions survive-ability sometimes, in cover with take cover strat they are 2+ saves.  Assuming it works on vehicles and makes things -1 to hit vs non scion units you can have a cheapo gatling taurox screen out for tank commanders, forcing relatively wasted shots on the taurox.  Overall I think kappic eagles are one of the premier choices here because of how much good stuff they get.  IMO they are THE scion force to beat if you are running pure scions or something close.  Though they fall in my estimation of you are running them as a supporting detachment

 

Dragons - Possibly the best regiment trait double tapping lasguns out of deepstrike, and letting command plasma kill squads drop outside of auspex range and still double tap.  Relic is... good but not likely a pass most of the time.  Warlord trait is nice, nothing amazing, but very usable, likely to be a 2nd trait grabbed via stratagem.  Strategem is again, fantastic, overwatch on 4s is great for obvious reasons.  Overall this is my pick for the BEST supporting scion regiment.  They do what scions have always done, just better than other regiments can.  They are your kill squads that drop in, the command squads dodging auspex or infiltrator 12" no ds type abilities is huge.  Hotshot las guns getting extra shots is great for getting some extra damage in there.  Tack on the overwatch strategem and these guys are the premier deep striking scion faction IMHO.

 

Gorgonnes - Regiment trait is ok, relic is a pass warlord trait is really good, and the strategem is really good.  Overall I don't think a strong warlord trait and strategem is able to carry an other wise mediocre regiment trait and poor relic.  I am sure they will find some use, and this isn't to say they are bad, its just when you look at what they are competing against, they just don't quite get there imo.

 

Jakals - Either the most powerful regiment trait or the most useless one depending on what you are fighting against.  Relic is actually surprisingly quite good, especially vs various space elf flavors.  Warlord trait, I am generally not a fan of but with going away from alternating deployment into full deploys, I could see there being times you want 3 free counter deployments.  Stratagem is reasonable most used to probably save your tauroxes probably.  Overall, their usefulness depends on your meta if you play vs a lot of factions that actually have morale they will likely be the most powerful regiment selection for you full stop, just because of that trait.  If you see a lot of nids, demons, vehicles, single model units etc, these guys become next to useless and become the worst regiment.  Extremely swingy, take them to a tournament and you will auto win some games and auto lose some games.

 

Lamdan Lions - These guys seem to be getting a lot of love from everyone, for me they are debateably the 3rd or 2nd place finisher though.  The regiment trait everyone is so enamored with, +1 ap, doesn't actually seem like that big a deal for scions which are already ap-2 or ap-3.  I suppose based on the current marine meta it matters more than it used to would, but vs, guard, gaunts, cultists, orks, it doesn't do much for the scions themselves.  There is a lot of opponents that ap-2 is enough.  Where this ability DOES shine though is on tauroxes, ap1 gatlings, ap2 battle/auto cannons, ap1 stubber/SB ap 3 krak (this does matter) or ap1 frag missiles all of these are very nice.  If you really like your tauroxes this is probably the best regiment, but to me at the end of the day tauroxes are fragile 10 wound t6 vehicles that get -1 to hit a fair bit unless you play on planet bowling ball, just not reliable enough for me to want to build a list around the 6-8 of these you would need to make this regiment worth it.  Relic, WOW this relic though, no joke probably just below laurels of command, you will be buying this every game and giving 5++ to your tauroxes, careful though about bunching them up to much as 1 charge shuts all of your tauroxes down, no fly.  Warlord trait, also quite possibly one of the best choices, free order to every unit within 6" very powerful.  Stratagem, on any other regiment this strat would be amazing, as it stands its on a regiment thats guns that it functions on are already ap-3, its just solid, good for getting past invulns or marines in cover though.  Overall, This is the one that fights with the kappic eagles for the best regiment in a scion heavy list.  They do not even challenge the dragons in their role though.  It will come down to how you field them I think, if you really like taurox primes lamdan lions will be the better choice, if you like valks or want a more even mix between valks and tauroxes the kappic eagles will probably be the better choice.

 

 

TL; DR  Jakals are the best or worst regiment completely depending on your local meta.  Dragons are the best regiment for supporting other factions, or even being your 2nd scion faction that is handling all your plasma and deepstriking.  Kappic eagles and Lambdan lions fight it out for the best regiment in a pure or scion heavy list, depending on whether you prefer tauroxes (lambdan) or valks or a mix of the 2(kappic eagles).  I don't think its actually possible to make a bad choice though which is a really cool place to be.

Edited February 9, 2020 by GrinNfool

[zero88]

Everyone is immediately thinking Valkyrie Meltadrop with the new Stratagem, but I'm thinking how hilarious it would be to drop in a barebones squad then pop the Grenadiers stratagem as well and lob 10 Krak Grenades at something

[WarriorFish]

There's a lot to take in, but I think that the extra range is what might be best. As a shooty army you don't want to be that close and don't have the numbers and heavy hitting of Guard, a little bit more reach is going to make a big difference for pure Stormie lists in particular I think.

[sairence]

Some really cool stuff there...I like that they each actually benefit different playstyles. There is no obvious best one 9/10 times, which is great.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, I think that's one of the best take aways from this. That we can have a topic specifically for discussing the new traits rather than everyone saying "X is best" is really good :tu:

[Galron]

Already used the Lambic lions doctrine and the Precision Drop against mechanicum. It pretty much forced everything onto its invul saves. I had most of his heavy hitters down by the end of my 3rd turn and hadnt taken too much losses. We ended the game early on three so technically he won on objectives but we both agreed my guys would have shredded his the next round.

 

Didnt get a chance to try the other new strats as they werent released before the game started. The reroll 1s would have saved three of my plasma guys who had the Laurels of command WL next to them. My melta guys were a wash only getting one shot through his robot 4++ and killed one but then they assaulted some "terrified" titan guard and skittari supported by a chainsword prime and Inquisitor Hector Rex and rolled the both. I ended up with 2 command squads, 2 primes and a regular plasma squad behind his lines. The -1 ap in close combat was great when I normally didnt get any.

[jaxom]

I updated the Regiments, but have a few questions/comments.

 

Thetoid Eagles - I wrote what I thought the strat did, but I could also read it as a unit less than 12" from a Taurox Prime gets to re-roll 1s to hit.

 

Iotan Dragoons - similar to above, is it supposed to be what I wrote or should it be SCION units within 18" of the WL ignore cover against targets less than 6" away?

 

Psian Jakals - is the WLT any unit or any 54TH PSIAN JAKAL unit? Becomes redeploying tanks in other detachments or even Valkyries in the MT detachment is very good.

 

Lambdan Lions - Is the WLT re-roll 1s to hit, to wound, or both?

 

I agree with what others have said - a group of Regiment rules where no one is above the rest and they promote different play styles and/or lists is a home run for the design team.

[GuardDaddy]

43rd Iotan Dragoons - Does that mean you can drop outside of Auspex range and still rapid fire? This would be very useful against Primaris meta.

[Shamansky]

Intel, folks. Picts of the pages.
 

Ordo tempestus+Tempestus regimental doctrines

 

Relics+Warlord traits

Startagems

[TheShredder]

I can't help but notice that the Blessed Boltgun Relic has a range of only 12".

[Metzombie]

Maybe I am missing something because I have only BS and not the Codex, but I can not finde any Scion modell with the option for a Boltgun.

[Trickstick]

I can't help but notice that the Blessed Boltgun Relic has a range of only 12".

Can anyone even equip it? I could be wrong, but aren't Commissars the only Tempestus models that can take the boltgun, and they don't get <regiment> and so can't be Gorgonnes.

[Squeakula]

Maybe it's meant to replace a bolt pistol?

[Cap'm Heckus]

There’s an old metal stormtrooper sergeant model (pre-kasrkin, the ones with the gas masks) that had a bolt gun across his chest. That’s the only one that pops to mind.

 

Edit: didn’t notice it replaces a boltgun. That’s odd.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Cap'm Heckus

[NatBrannigan]

The Psian Jackals with a couple of Shatterer of Wills Support Aces will simply remove units. -2LD on 2 separate units, only one can use the auto pass moral Stratagem.

 

Might be worth looking at against something like Centurions or Agressors.

[CaptainMarsh]

Yeah the Blessed Boltgun is kind of a wreck in a few ways. 

[xenomortis]

The dragons are my personal favourite, will be using them a lot.

 

The gorgonnes are an interesting one though. Do they make flamers viable? 2 command squads of 4 flamers a piece landing 5" away and pumping 8 D6 auto hits into something is a tasty prospect. Just a shame about the weird boltgun and warlord trait.

[NatBrannigan]

Looking at Lions I think, the whole package looks fantastic. Extra -1 AP on everything (including Taurox Primes), re-roll hits of 1 from the warlord trait within 6" (freeing up orders for something else as well), 5++ 6" bubble and a CP to do mortal wounds on a 6 to wound. I think that's the set for me.

[Shamansky]

Looking at Lions I think, the whole package looks fantastic. Extra -1 AP on everything (including Taurox Primes), re-roll hits of 1 from the warlord trait within 6" (freeing up orders for something else as well), 5++ 6" bubble and a CP to do mortal wounds on a 6 to wound. I think that's the set for me.

AP -1 also can be used as a substitude to astropath's 'remove cover ability, but on the other hand astropath can boost that 4+/5++ to 3+/4++.  Hmm... and it looks like one 10-men squad  wpould be more reliable than 2x 5-men. One pistol less one hellgun more + saves and strats are mostly one unit oriented. And the pistol can be given to Prime instead of the Rod

Edited February 11, 2020 by Shamansky