3000 pts AL list. Please share your thoughts

[Black Muse]

++ Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [2,996pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Armillus Dynat [200pts]

 

Forge Lord [291pts]:

Artificer Armour, Charnabal Sabre, Refractor Field, Conversion Beamer, Cyber-familiar, Graviton Gun, Rad Grenades

3x Servo-automata, CCW, Rad Missile Launcher

 

Siege Breaker [140pts]:

Artificer Armour, Charnabal Sabre, Combi-bolter with only Banestrike Rounds, Refractor Field

 

+ Elites +

 

Apothecarion Detachment [225pts]

3x Apothecary, Legion: Artificer Armour, Augury Scanner, Power Sword, Venom Spheres

 

Destroyer Squad, Legion [305pts]:

Melta Bombs, Psyk-out Grenades, Venom Spheres

Destroyer Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Phosphex Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

2x Destroyer Space Marine W/ Special Weapon, Legion: Toxiferran Flamer

7x Destroyer Space Marine, Legion

 

+ Troops +

 

2x Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [435pts each]:

9x Tactical Space Marines, CCW's

Additional Wargear: Nuncio-vox, Vexilla, Legion

Land Raider Proteus: Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade, Extra Armour, Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, Hunter-killer Missile, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

Tactical Squad, Legion , Compulsory [190pts]:

10x Tactical Space Marines, CCW's

Additional Wargear: Nuncio-vox, Vexilla, Legion

Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

2x Terrax Pattern Termite Assault Drill [100pts each]: Armoured Ceramite, 2x Twin-linked Bolter

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Achilles-Alpha Pattern Land Raider [320pts]

Quad Launcher: Phosphex, Shatter

 

Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank [255pts]: Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade, Skyspear Warheads

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance: Traitor

XX: Alpha Legion: Infiltrate

Rite of War: Armoured Spearhead

 

Created with BattleScribe ((https://battlescribe.net)

 

Forge-Lord, Siege-Breaker & Apothecary infiltrate in the Achilles.

11 men Tactical squad & Apothecary DS in the 1st Terrax

Dynat, Destroyers & Apothecary start in reserve in the 2nd Terrax.

 

This is not meant to be a competitive list, but this is my first army and I'm completely new at this, so don't spare the comments please. Thanks in advance!

[Unknown Legionnaire]

 

Forge-Lord, Siege-Breaker & Apothecary infiltrate in the Achilles.

 

 

 

Infiltrate is only conferred to dedicated transports, so no infiltrating the Achilles (It does work on your Proteus / Tac Squad combo for example though, 'cause your RoW makes them dedicated transports.).

 

Feel No Pain does not work on Servo-Automata.

[Black Muse]

Thanks for the clarification. Seems I can always count on you.

A part of the reason I took him is for the Augery scanner, so that the Forge Lord could take a Graviton in case of short range issues with the C Beam. Would you consider that a wasted Apothecary and use the points elsewhere?

[Cadmus Tyro]

Hmm, there’s quite a few things to consider here, so I’ll give you a couple of my thoughts.

 

Firstly there are a few things you probably don’t need in the list as they are not providing enough for the investment in points:

 

1) Forge Lord, if he’s just there to sit at the back with a conversion Beamer, a tech marine is a cheaper option. The only reason I would take a forgelord over a techmarine in this role is because he has access to terminator armour. This would allow him to move and fire the CB, but if you did this I wouldn’t be taking missile launchers on the servo automata. I would just take them to absorb hits. Graviton is a heavy weapon, so you won’t be able to fire it if you disembark from the Achilles (unless you have terminator armour) and the conversion Beamer gets better at long range, so if you’re set on taking a forge Lord, give him a specified role and equip him to suit this.

 

2) siege breaker, you’re not taking advantage of one of his main special rules, which is to grant tank hunter to heavy weapons in the squad he joins. There are better support character options here, it’s not worth taking him just to give your Achilles phosphex rounds.

 

3) the third tactical squad, I think you probably need more scoring units overall but there are better options that will contribute more to the game than a tactical squad.

 

4) second terrax termite, this is a lot of points to essentially bring on a tactical squad. The aim should be to keep uneven numbers of of termites (and drop pods) to maximise the number of units that arrive turn one and minimise the number of units held in reserve. They also don’t need armoured ceramite, meltaguns will ruin your day even without the melta rule, you’re only AV12. Personally, I reserve AC for AV 14 as it means melta will only be able to glance you.

 

5) Dynat, awesome character, but you pay a lot for his rules, and you are not taking advantage of either. IMHO he works best in an orbital strike list, but I’ve never used him myself. Consider whether a cheaper character will achieve the same task.

 

So, a few things I would consider including:

 

1) mortitat with plasma pistols, switch out the destroyer flamers for rad missiles. They will be more use dropping out a terrax and in subsequent turns they will have greater range (you lack jump packs to reposition)

 

2) consider more anti tank, at 3k points you could end up facing a lot of armour, including super heavies, you have no way to deal with multiple armoured threats.

 

3) more scoring units, examples that would fit with your above list:

 

Seekers, tactical support squad, tactical veteran squad

 

These options could deep strike using Dynats warlord trait. Infiltrate in a land raider. Keep a squad small and put them in the Achilles to respond to threats as they advance.

 

Finally, consider terminators in a dreadclaw, both this and your destroyers will arrive turn one.

 

Anyway, hope that helps, good luck with the project.

 

Cadmus

[Black Muse]

Thanks Cadmus. I see your points.

Only thing is, I thought that if I use a Techmarine, he won't be able to join the rest of the guys as a unit. Being in the same unit as the Forge Lord, the Siege Breaker buffs the Automata Missile Launchers, or am I completely off the mark here?

[Unknown Legionnaire]

Being in the same unit as the Forge Lord, the Siege Breaker buffs the Automata Missile Launchers, or am I completely off the mark here?

 

Which are only STR 4, since they exchange both their Frag & Krak missiles for the Rad ones. So, the Siege Breakers ability is more or less wasted on them.

 

I'd follow Cadmus advice, drop the Siege Breaker and equip the Forge Lord with Cataphractii Armour, to make him relentless, dropping the weapon upgrades on the Automata and merely use them as ablative wounds.

[Black Muse]

Thank you for your patience guys! Sorry if I tend to ask stupid questions, as I'm just getting the hang of things.

[Unknown Legionnaire]

You're very welcome.

 

Another combo worth considering would a regular Techmarine with a retinue of 5 Servo-Automata armed with Rad missiles, accompanied by a Master of Signals, for the Cognis Signum bonus he provides, and a single-use barrage. Just came to my mind.

[Black Muse]

So, going with your suggestions, I've switched the entire Forge-Lord squad for Seekers and a Master of Signal, which will infiltrate.

Dynat & Medicae ride with the Destroyers.

Tact Squads got their bolters back for a better FotL.

I've used some leftover points to kit out the Seekers for melee. Kept the Destroyers with the flamers, as I've got an extra Landraider to cover long range and I think the Toxifarens are better charge deterrents (are they?)

 

++ Crusade (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [3,000pts] ++

 

+ HQ +

 

Armillus Dynat [200pts]

 

Master of Signal [160pts]:

Artificer Armour, Charnabal Sabre, Melta Bombs, Refractor Field, Venom Spheres, Volkite Charger, Power Axe

 

Primus Medicae [155pts]:

Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Refractor Field, Venom Spheres, Thunder Hammer

 

+ Elites +

 

Destroyer Squad, Legion [305pts]:

Melta Bombs, Psyk-out Grenades, Venom Spheres

Destroyer Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Phosphex Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

2x Destroyer Space Marine W/ Toxiferran Flamer

7x Destroyer Space Marines

 

Terminator Squad, Tartaros [375pts]:

Banestrike Bolter Shells

Terminator Sergeant: Chainfist, Grenade Harness, Power Dagger

4x Terminators: Chainfist

Anvillus Dreadclaw

 

+ Troops +

 

2x Tactical Squad [440pts each]:

Bolters, 9x Tactical Space Marines, Additional CCW's, Vexilla,

Tactical Sergeant, Legion: Artificer Armour, Bolter, Melta Bombs, Power Dagger, Power Fist

Land Raider Proteus: Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade, Extra Armour, Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

 

+ Fast Attack +

 

Seeker Squad [590pts]:

6x Seeker Space Marines, 6x Combi-Melta, Venom Spheres

Strike Leader, Legion: Artificer Armour, Power Dagger, Power Fist,

Combi-Melta

Land Raider Proteus: Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade, Explorator Augury Web, Extra Armour, Hull-Mounted Twin-Linked Lascannon, Hunter-killer Missile, 2x Twin-linked Lascannon Sponsons

 

Terrax Pattern Termite Assault Drill [80pts]: 2x Twin-linked Bolter

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Sicaran Arcus Strike Tank [255pts]:

Armoured Ceramite, Auxiliary Drive, Dozer Blade, Skyspear Warheads

 

+ Allegiance +

 

Legion and Allegiance: Traitor

XX: Alpha Legion: Infiltrate

Rite of War: Armoured Spearhead

+ Use Playtest Rules +

 

Created with BattleScribe ((https://battlescribe.net)

 

 

What do you guys think?

Edited February 11, 2020 by Black Muse

[Unknown Legionnaire]

I'd still consider swapping out Dynat for a regular Praetor with Paragon Blade (since you're not utilising Hammerstrike Assault anyways), but I acknowledge there's a certain appeal to dropping two Phosphex Bombs plus two Toxiferran templates on an enemy unit in a single round.  

 

Drop the Primus Medicae and take a regular Apothecary in Artificer Armour, saving 100 pts.

 

Seekers (an awesome unit, never leave home without them) won't benefit that much from the MoS / Cognis combo, since they're BS 5 already and will re-roll ones when shooting against their chosen prey. Still, the MoS is a very good inclusion (though equipping him for melee is questionable, I'd rather save those points).

[Black Muse]

Thanks again.

MoS can Cognis the Proteus too, right? Thinking I could stick him behind it and move on with the rest of the Seekers if needed.

[Cadmus Tyro]

Looking better, time to fine tune, here’s a few suggestions:

 

1) increase seeker squad to x8, give them plasma. In my experience six will not be enough to deal with their target, I do play custodes a lot though!

 

2) I agree with UL, a paragon praetor will serve your better. You could, convert the terminator squad to a command squad in terminator armour, drop it to four members and put the praetor with them in the dreadclaw.

 

3) drop some equipment, MoS should be kitted out minimally, refractor and artificer at the most. I never find venom spheres worth their points. You may not need the auxiliary drive or ceramite on the sicaran.

 

4) if you can shave off enough points, try and include a unit for your MoS to sit in. Heavy support squad is an option, but, a tactical support squad with calivers would be scoring and cheaper. Deploy them mid/backfield with the MoS. MoS can babysit the unit and if you keep your Sicaran close it can support that unit too.

 

In the end it’s up to you, but the XXth do require quite a lot of thought in terms of list mechanics.

 

Cadmus

[Black Muse]

Thanks Cadmus.

Seekers are at full size (6+Sgt.+MoS) unless I drop the Explorator Array to fit 2 more. Is that what you meant?

Regarding Dynat: A Termie Preator costs about the same, and doesn't provide me with The Harrowing.

Now if I switch the Termies for a command squad I give up a scoring unit without that much points left to switch it, even if I drop all melee weapons from both the Seekers and the MoS (and the AC & Drive on the Arcus, and the Primus). It also means my WL loses his FNP and I lose a solid point guy for the Destroyers.

Is the Paragon Blade that good?

Or should I take the Preator with an Artificer etc. and simply switch him for Dynat? What would you guys suggest?

Edited February 11, 2020 by Black Muse