Sons of Sobek - Updated 25/8/20

[Lord_Caerolion]

Chapter Name:...............................Sons of Sobek

Founding:.......................................Ultima Founding

Chapter World:...............................Orichar

Fortress Monastery:........................Eye of Pactli

Gene-Seed (Predecessor):...............X Legion (Iron Hands)

Known Descendants:......................None

 

There is a misconception held by some members of the Adeptus Terra that the coming of the Cicatrix Maledictum split the Imperium of Mankind in two, with both Imperium Sanctus and Imperium Nihilus being a mirror of the other. While this is, at its core, true, the Imperium Nihilus is more akin to a resurgence of Old Night.

 

In truth there is not one Imperium Nihilus, but many. Not one beleaguered edifice of order beset on all sides, but rather all too few precious motes of civilisation, scattered bonfires of defiance raging against the dying of the light, as the wolves draw ever closer.

 

It is within one of these last bastions of humanity that the Sons of Sobek were born, choosing to remain behind the Lord Guilliman’s Indomitus Crusade and take a stand beside their brothers in arms to deny the forces of Chaos as best they could.

Origin and Founding

The Adeptus Astartes warriors who would become the Sons of Sobek were created in the laboratory-demesnes of Archmagos Cawl, as members of the Unnumbered Sons. Drawn from the geneseed of the Primarch Ferrus Manus, they were assigned as Chapter Beta-Alpha-2-6-1-9. They displayed a remarkable aptitude for technology, perhaps owing to their genetic lineage, and began to earn a reputation for their ability to suddenly unleash overwhelming force upon their foes.

Before long they were favoured as outriders for their crusade fleet, undergoing recon-in-force missions on a fleet scale, marking targets of opportunity for the wider crusade fleets, and escalating to full-Chapter deployments against those foes they could. This modus operandi would serve them well, until they reached the Elrhaz Periphery, where they would be reborn in blood as the Sons of Sobek.

 

When arriving in the Elrhaz Periphery, the Sons found themselves as having translated far beyond Crusade support, in a highly-populated, albeit isolated, region. Drifting into the outer reaches of the Erim system, they found themselves placed seemingly by the hand of the Omnissiah to respond to desperate calls for aid coming from a Loyalist Chapter, the Steel Janizars, currently fighting on an agri-world within the system, against a Death Guard Vectorium calling itself the Drowned. They had been making steady progress through the Periphery, with the Janizars choosing Sobek as the site of their final stand.

Seeing the peril the Janizars were in, they sent an astropathic message to Guilliman advising them of the situation, and began a full-Chapter deployment.

 

Already severely depleted, the Janizars initially took the reinforcements to be another tool of the Drowned, and several dropships, largely containing vehicles, were shot down by the Janizars before the truth filtered through the fog of war. By the time of Guillimans arrival, the two Chapters were able to drive the Drowned back from the system, although both Chapters were severely depleted, the future Sons losing the rest of their Techmarines, and depleted to only 3 Companies in strength. The victory was phyrric, as the world of Sobek was too heavily tainted by the Drowned, and the Janizars and newly named Sons of Sobek performed Exterminatus on the planet, the Sons taking the name of the planet that blooded them.

As recompense for the actions of the Janizars, the Sons asked only for custodianship of the Erim system, taking the Death World of Orichar as their homeworld, which had been largely avoided by the Drowned for reasons unknown.

 

Ever since that campaign the Sons and the Janizars have formed strong bonds of brotherhood that are routinely commemorated every five years at the Feast of Burning. The Chapters are sworn to come to the others aid if called for; in this dark new age of the Imperium of Man they find themselves fighting shoulder to shoulder against the foe more and more.

Geneseed

 

The geneseed of the Sons of Sobek remains relatively stable, displaying no loss of functionality or notable deviancy, much like their forebears. While the psychological drive for self-improvement remains, they notably lack the masochistic body dysmorphia that so characterises the Iron Hands, although this is widely held to be a result of the divergent beliefs of the Chapter from their forebears, rather than any biological cause.

Beliefs

 

The Chapter Cult of the Sons of Sobek is perhaps unique combining their worship of the Omnissiah with the technobarbarism of Orichar and the strange shamanism of the Mechanicus priests there. They see the creations of the Omnissiah as holy, and as the Emperor and his vessel Belisarius Cawl created the geneseed, their flesh bodies are seen as holy creations of the Omnissiah. This results in a tendency to shun bionics in favour of cloned or vat-grown replacements, unlike the Iron Hands, as these are seen to be an assumption that they can better the works of the Omnissiah.

Similarly, machine spirits are also paid homage to, and each Marine has an intimate bond with their wargear and armour, and the machine spirits within. Indeed, as the Omnissiah is the perfect fusion of Man and Machine, the Sons do not view themselves as truly being Astartes when not wearing their armour. Only when encased in holy ceramite of their power armour, Man and Machine Spirit becoming one body, are they seen as being a true example of the Adeptus Astartes.

 

These beliefs have also drastically altered the function of the Chaplains and Librarians within the Chapter. Since the loss of their Techmarines, the Librarians and Chaplains were taught the mysteries of the shamanic knowledge of the Orichan tech-priests, forming the Cahjaran Order.

Battlefield Doctrine

 

The legacy of their time amongst the Unnumbered Sons, combined with the lessons learned against the supernaturally resilient Death Guard of the Drowned, the Sons of Sobek prefer a tactic of reconnaissance-in-force escalating into overwhelming deployments of force in total war. Almost always deploying to war-zones in their non-Codex organisations of War Lodges, comprising of 3 Hunting Companies each, analogous to a Codex-standard Company, with each deploying entirely equipped in one pattern of armour each, ie one in Tacticus, one in Gravis, and one in Phobos. Typically, one Company will deploy, usually either the Vanguard or Tacticus, will deploy first, acting either as "bait" and seek to either engage the enemy, or scout for weaknesses.

The "bait" Hunting Company Captain will make the decision to either lead the foe into an already chosen "killing ground" for the other two Hunting Companies to strike, deploying either from hidden positions or deploying rapidly from orbit via vehicle insertion, or if relocation is impossible they will request the killing grounds to be modified to be their location, digging in as best they can while the other two Companies reposition and redirect their deployment.

 

The Sons of Sobek have also developed a reputation for using allied forces as the bait force, watching the progress of Astra Militarum deployments to find where the opposition might be lured into the most efficient location for a decapitating strike. While this can often lead to increased casualties for the allied force in the initial battle, the warzones are usually recaptured in a far shorter time than would otherwise be required, leading to decreased casualties in the longer term.

 

Organization

 

The Chapter is divided into 3 War Lodges, comprised of 3 Hunting Companies, each roughly equivalent to a slightly overstrength Battle Company in a more Codex-adherent Chapter. The Chapter does not contain any Reserve, Scout, or Veteran Companies. Instead, each Company is responsible for its own recruitment, and has a slightly higher number of Company Veterans than normal, although this number can fluctuate.

Each Hunting Company is instead comprised of the standard 6 Battleline squads, 2 Close Support, and 2 Fire Support. In addition to these, each Company has a contingent of Scouts, as well as an additional "Reserve" squad of the most recently promoted Battle-Brothers, that will be deployed as either Battleline, Close Support, or Fire Support as battlefield and training demands. Each of the three Hunting Companies operates together, each of the Phobos, Tacticus, and Gravis Companies complementing the other to provide a greater amount of flexibility than would otherwise be the case.

 

A further distinction is the lack of any Techmarines, instead being replaced by a combination of Chaplains and Librarians known as the Cahjaran Order. The Chaplains assist in the connections between Marine and Machine Spirit, allowing for deeper bonds between user and wargear, while the Librarians utilize their technomancy to enact repairs. The first stages of training of all aspects of the Cahjaran Order involves being pilots and drivers of the vehicles in the Armoury, training the inductees into how to commune with Machine Spirits of all types.

 

Recruitment & Training

 

Each War Lodge is responsible for their own recruitment and training, unlike the standard Codex methodology of having both a Scout and Reserve Companies. There is a shared group of Scouts for each War Lodge, who undergo implantation and training in much the same way as a Codex Chapter, deploying with each of the 3 Hunting Companies as the Captains deem appropriate. When each Scout is deemed ready to have their Black Carapace implanted, they undergo a ritual that determines which of the Hunting Companies they will then be promoted to.

 

Under the auspices of the Chaplains, each novitiate is taken into the depths of the Reclusiam-Forge of the Chapter, where the suits of unclaimed power armour are stored. There, fires are lit, sacred incense scattered to open the minds of each novitiate, as the Black Carapaces of each are connected into the databanks of the Reclusiam-Forge. Over the coming hours and days, monitored by the Chaplains, each will commune with the machine spirits located within the suits of armour looking down upon them from the walls. One by one, each Novitiate will find a suit with which they feel kinship, and claim it as their own. Which suit they claim will determine which Hunting Company they are then assigned to.

 

It is not unknown for a Scout to feel no ties to any suits present. These warriors are looked upon with pity, unable to reach the completion that their erstwhile brethren attain. They remain as the Scout Sergeants training new inductees, seen as an essential piece of the Chapter but forever apart, as in the purview of the Chapter Cult, these warriors have only half the soul of an Astartes.

 

From there, each newly-inducted Battle Brother joins the Reserve Squad of their new Company. These squads have no set designation, acting as either Battleline, Close Support, or Fire Support as the mission may require. This allows each new member to be trained in each of the roles of their new armour, and are promoted up to a dedicated squad when their Sergeant deems them ready, and as casualties allow.

 

Home-world

 

The world of Orichar is shrouded in mystery, having undergone some unknown and overwhelming cataclysm in ages past. While the world as it exists today is covered in wetlands and swamp, it is clear that it at one time harboured human civilization of incredible technological advancement, which remains today only as scattered and primitive human tribes living in the remains of the once-great cities.

The world is remarkably flat, having no mountain ranges, and no deep oceans, instead almost entirely covered by low-lying water and vegetation growing from the very shallow ground beneath. It is home to a wide variety of animal life, the vast majority of which is either amphibious, aquatic, or capable of flight. Most feared by the local tribes are the crocodilian mega-predators.

 

The fortress monastery is built into a mesa known as the Eye of Pactli, the highest feature on the planet, although still only extending 100 metres above the surface. It is made of a strange, psychically resonant stone, and extends deep into the planets crust. This, combined with its location in the middle of a large crater inside the ruins of the largest ancient city on Orichar has caused some amongst the Cahjaran Order and the Oricharan tech priests to believe that the Eye of Pactli is the cause of whatever calamitous event effected Orichar millennia ago.

 

Planetary Culture

 

The population of the planet exists largely at a pre-industrial level, and comprise of two main castes. The bulk of the population exist as hunter-gatherers, living in the remains of the ruined cities that dot the planet, and hunt the creatures of the wetlands for food and leather/hides. They have incongruous levels of technology, salvaging and repurposing what they can from the remains of the old civilization, complemented by what can be created or repaired by the members of the second caste, the priesthood. As such, a tribal hunter might have a simple spear crafted from salvaged rebar, while hunting for prey with sophisticated auspexes mounted to their headgear.

 

The priesthood are a divergent offshoot of the Adeptus Mechanicus, devoting their lives to seeking to understand the archaeotech present on Orichar. Due to the humidity of the planet, bionic implants are disfavoured, which over time led to a changing of the dogma of their worship of the Machine God into more heavily focusing on the Omnissiah as the perfect fusion of man and machine rather than the superiority of metal over flesh so common among the Mechanicus, a belief that has carried over into the Sons of Sobek. Previously the priesthood have been allowed to maintain their differences from standard Martian doctrine by promising samples of all archaeotech that they manage to uncover in their explorations to the wider Adeptus Mechanicus. With the arrival of the Sons of Sobek, the priesthood saw a way to tip the balance of power. By welcoming the Chapter into their midst and helping to create the Cahjaran Order, Orichar now falls under the auspices of the Adeptus Astartes. As signs of good-will, the promises of archaeotech remain in place, but the Adeptus Mechanicus no longer hold the position of power in bargaining that they once did.

 

Most communities will be comprised of only a few dozen or so priests, while the vast majority of the population are the hunter-gatherers. The communities will be led by a tribal chieftain or king in most instances, with the priesthood acting as spiritual advisors. The priesthood are the ones to intercede on the tribes behalf to the machine spirits of the ancient buildings they shelter in, bringing light when night falls, closing gates for safety.

 

Equipment

 

 

So, this will just be a temporary placeholder as I get the rest of the information written down and figured out, but the basic idea all started off a topic back in 2018 about Marines from a Swamp World, where I floated the idea for a name, the Sons of Sobek, which got stuck in my head. After starting the Warhammer Conquest magazine with my friend, we decided to create a Chapter each to have fight alongside each other, and so the Sons of Sobek got created.

At first, the only thing I knew was I wanted them to come from a swamp world, and their customs involved the crocodilian mega-predators of that world, with the culture being vaguely Egyptian/Mesoamerican, without being "Space Egyptians!" Initially I thought of having them as Salamanders successors, but discarded that as too cliche.

 

As it currently stands, they're Iron Hands successors of the Ultima Founding, who have no Techmarines, the role instead being fulfilled by their Librarians and Chaplains, who have a much more shamanistic attitude to technology. They revere the Emperor as the Omnissiah, with not much importance being placed on bionics, instead seeing an Astartes in their armour as the holy, perfect fusion of Man and Machine. In fact, the final test for acceptance into the Chapter is a sort of vision-quest in which the aspirant must select a suit of power armour and bond with the Machine Spirit inside. Only once they find this symbiosis are they accepted as a full Astartes.

 

The Chapter also draws organizational inspiration from the Sons of Medusa, operating not as 10 Companies, but as 3 "War Clans" of 3 Companies each, one Company of Gravis Armour, one of Tacticus, and one of Phobos (not decided whether they'll actually be called War Clans and Companies, yet). Tactically, they take inspiration from the ambush-hunting predators of their home world, lying in wait for the enemy to come into carefully prepared kill-zones before the ambush is sprung and the War Clan attacks.

 

Coloration will be a sea-green for the armour, with red shoulderpads.

 

I'll get more posted soon, filling out what I've got for their actual history. Just wanted to get this down to start with to encourage me to post the rest.

Edited August 26, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I like the tactical flexibility inherent to your proposed Chapter organization. Three companies- with fast but fragile Reivers, powerful but slow Aggressors, and "just right" Intercessors- are large enough to DO SOMETHING on its own, but not so large it becomes unwieldy.

 

The name, though... "Sobek" isn't an alias that Alpharius (or one of his deviant sons) uses, is it?

[Dizzyeye01]

It looks like you're off to a good start mate. The idea of bonding with your suit in a ritual/vision quest sounds like a nice angle to explore and having the local predators tactics sound like an interesting challenge for the locals to deal with; it's definitely something that can be delved into with how the War Hosts work: someone would be the bait to spring the trap (Gravis) while the flankers would deliver the blow (Tacticus) and there would be scouts to find the beasts and hinder their movements (Phobos).

 

One thing I would suggest is perhaps put all your cards in and mesh Librarian, Chaplain, apothacary and Techpriest into one order like what was done with the Emperors' Spears by ADB:

 

 

 

Chapter specialists known as "Druids" replace the usual Librarians, Chaplains, Techmarines and Apothecaries of Codex-compliant Chapters. These warrior-priests are always ready to harvest the gene-seed of their fallen Battle-Brothers, as well as performing the traditional duties of the standard Codex roles based on their specialist skills and esoteric abilities.

 

Just some food for thought.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That was also one of the things I'd struggled with, initially thinking that Sobek might be a mythologized version of Ferrus from their homeworld's history, but changed it to being the name of a planet.

 

Initially, the Sons of Sobek were part of the Unnumbered Sons, operating in the vanguard of the Indomitus Crusade. Reaching an area of the northern rim of the galaxy known as the Eirichal Periphery, they found a loyal Chapter, the Steel Janizars (my friends new Chapter) deployed in full strength on the agri-world Sobek, beset on all sides by a Death Guard Vectorium calling itself "the Drowned". Seeing the peril the Janizars were in, and unwilling to let loyal Imperial forces perish unaided, the Crusade forces sent an astropathic message to Guilliman and the wider Crusade fleet, and began a Chapter-strength deployment.

 

The Janizars, already severely depleted by months of endless warfare, not recognizing the new patterns of armour and vehicles, initially took the reinforcements to be some trick of the Drowned, leading to friendly fire downing several dropships, largely containing vehicles, before the truth could filter through the fog of war. By the time Guilliman arrived with the rest of the Crusade fleet the two Chapters had been able to drive the Drowned back from the system, although at grievous cost to both forces. The future Sons had been reduced to 3 Companies in strength, and had lost the entirety of their Armoury, including all Techmarines. In the aftermath of their victory, the planet was declared too tainted by the plagues unleashed by the Nurgle-worshipers, and the Indomitus Crusade committed Exterminatus on the planet, with the Unnumbered Sons who had fought alongside the Janizars taking the name Sons of Sobek in remembrance of the bloody battles that had forged them.

 

As recompense for the initial actions of the Janizars against them, the Sons asked for custodianship of the system, taking the nearby Death World of Orichar as their homeworld, a planet which had been left almost untouched by the Drowned for reasons unknown.

[Lord_Caerolion]

It looks like you're off to a good start mate. The idea of bonding with your suit in a ritual/vision quest sounds like a nice angle to explore and having the local predators tactics sound like an interesting challenge for the locals to deal with; it's definitely something that can be delved into with how the War Hosts work: someone would be the bait to spring the trap (Gravis) while the flankers would deliver the blow (Tacticus) and there would be scouts to find the beasts and hinder their movements (Phobos).

 

One thing I would suggest is perhaps put all your cards in and mesh Librarian, Chaplain, apothacary and Techpriest into one order like what was done with the Emperors' Spears by ADB:

 

 

 

Chapter specialists known as "Druids" replace the usual Librarians, Chaplains, Techmarines and Apothecaries of Codex-compliant Chapters. These warrior-priests are always ready to harvest the gene-seed of their fallen Battle-Brothers, as well as performing the traditional duties of the standard Codex roles based on their specialist skills and esoteric abilities.

 

Just some food for thought.

 

I'm siding against having Apothecaries rolled into the position for now as the idea is that the Chapter, while being descendants of the Iron Hands, are far more shamanistic in their attitude towards technology. Think of the Banuk Shamans from Horizon: Zero Dawn. The Apothecaries are still Codex-standard, it's only the Librarians and Chaplains have become technoshamans due to the loss of the Techmarines and inability to travel to Mars to train more, and their adopted homeworld has a large amount of archaeotech on it that they almost worship, which has carried over into the Chapter cult.

I'm also trying to come up with names for each of these new pseudo-Techmarines. They are two different sides of the same coin, the Librarians view their Technomancy as communing with the Machine Spirits themselves, while the Chaplains deal with the "human" side of the Omnissiah, helping the Marines bond better with their Machine Spirits. Both, however, are responsible for assistance with repairs and upkeep of the vehicles, etc.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Brother Lunkhead]

Hail Brother Lord,

 

Your Sons of Sobek look very interesting and I see a lot of potential here

 

Iron Hands descendent chapter with strong shamanic leanings is a great idea that makes a lot of sense considering your forge structure. I like this idea a lot. I'm assuming that Forge Master and his main retinue survived the destruction of the Techmarine cadre and trained the Libraruius and Reclusium in the arts of Mars. Considering the Martian indoctrination of the Forge Master, how did he come around to the more mystical path. This is not a huge huge stretch considering the beliefs of the Cult Mehanicum, but a significant change in dogma nevertheless. Perhaps he manifested some latent psychic abilities himself in the form of visions (just an idea) I'll be interested to see how you develop this.

 

I like the idea of the chapter being organized around the three clans. However, unlike Brother Bjorn, I don't see any inherent flexibility in the force structure that you envision. Since each clan is configured around specific armor and weapon systems (and combat doctrine too I assume), unless they engage in joint operations (which to me sort of goes against the clan idea) each clan is going to be somewhat limited in the types of missions they undertake. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'll just be interested in seeing how you develop combat doctrine and how the clans perform missions.

 

Good luck with this. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

Edited February 12, 2020 by Brother Lunkhead

[Lord_Caerolion]

Hail Brother Lord,

 

Your Sons of Sobek look very interesting and I see a lot of potential here

 

Iron Hands descendent chapter with strong shamanic leanings is a great idea that makes a lot of sense considering your forge structure. I like this idea a lot. I'm assuming that Forge Master and his main retinue survived the destruction of the Techmarine cadre and trained the Libraruius and Reclusium in the arts of Mars. Considering the Martian indoctrination of the Forge Master, how did he come around to the more mystical path. This is not a huge huge stretch considering the beliefs of the Cult Mehanicum, but a significant change in dogma nevertheless. Perhaps he manifested some latent psychic abilities himself in the form of visions (just an idea) I'll be interested to see how you develop this.

 

I like the idea of the chapter being organized around the three clans. However, unlike Brother Bjorn, I don't see any inherent flexibility in the force structure that you envision. Since each clan is configured around specific armor and weapon systems (and combat doctrine too I assume), unless they engage in joint operations (which to me sort of goes against the clan idea) each clan is going to be somewhat limited in the types of missions they undertake. I'm not saying it's a bad idea. I'll just be interested in seeing how you develop combat doctrine and how the clans perform missions.

 

Good luck with this. I'm definitely looking forward to seeing more.

Hi Brother Lunkhead.

 

For the Chapter organization, it's intended that the Sons draw from the history of the Crusade-era Iron Hands with their practice of total war. As such, each of the War Clans operates as a whole, each of the 3 component Companies working together in the field. Each Company is responsible for their own recruiting. Tactically, the Chapter aims to create kill-zones, whether by laying an ambush, laying bait of "overextended" squads caught unawares, etc. The rest of the War Clan will either be hidden in concealed positions, or prepared for aerial/orbital insertion. In other words, they're a stealthy Chapter, but only until the battle starts, at which point they go all out, seeking the utter annihilation of the foe.

 

For the questions on the Forge Master, I actually imagined the destruction of the Armory as total, even the Master of the Forge being killed. This battle with the Drowned really did mess the fledgling Chapter up badly. I hadn't fully fleshed this part out, but it could be that the Sons relied heavily on the Janizars at first while they established themselves, drawing on the culture of technoshamanism from the native population to influence their Librarians and Chaplains, and their own skills at Technomancy to allow them to stay somewhat functional as the Chapter rebuilt and evolved.

 

To explain a bit more about how I see the local culture, initially I knew they were from a swamp world, but I have a hatred of the Star Wars-style "single biome planets". I also knew I wanted the home planet to have a large amount of archaeotech, but almost no actual understanding of how it worked. So, instead of it being natural swamp, it changed to the fact that something Very Very Bad happened on this planet some time in the Dark Age of Technology. There are no oceans on Orichar, only constant marsh and wetland, with the ground occasionally dropping down to form shallow seas. However, the planet also lacks any natural elevated locations, with the Librarians of the Sons ominously theorising that large swaths of the planet that alternate between deep crevasses and glassy, submerged wasteland are the remnants of ancient mountain ranges, scoured from the face of the planet in ages past. Theories abound as to what may have caused this, whether apocalyptic Dark Age technology, or far more sinister means.

 

The native population take shelter in the ancient ruined cities scattered across the planet, sheltering from the saurian megapredators that lie in ambush deeper in swamplands. All knowledge of who built the cities has been lost, leaving the population with an anachronistic level of technology. While their knowledge of science and technology is stunted, the leader-caste of Spirit-speakers have a regressed, highly ritualised understanding of the archaeotech that remains functioning, communing with the ancient spirits of ancient vault doors to permit sanctuary, or for arcane mechanisms to take pity on their supplicants to produce food when the hunters are not successful in their duties.

It was to the teachings of these Spirit-speakers that the Librarians and Chaplains of the Sons turned after the loss of their Techpriests. Mars taught that all machines have a spirit of their own, an animus that could be entreated to and bargained with. Materiel they did not lack, only knowledge, and what is the Omnissiah and His Machine Spirits if not the divine source of all knowledge?

Edited February 13, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I'm glad you're putting in thoughts on HOW and WHY the Chapter and its Chapter planet are the way they are. (Glares at Games Workshop's lazy writers.)

 

My idea on what caused the Chapter planet to become a swamp world: Loss of the arctic and antarctic ice caps due to destruction of the ozone layer (which also prevents the ice caps from reforming), the latter due to volcanic eruptions pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere.

 

The planet's populace should have a preference for high temperatures, and resistance to certain toxins- specifically the toxic gases a volcanic eruption produces- as a result of living in such an environment.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Yep, ice caps would have melted when whoever it was decided “screw this planet in particular”. Probably a lot of volcanic side effects too. Thanks for the ideas :)

 

Edit: I want to keep a vague sense of unease about exactly why the planet is the way it is, given the Drowned ignored the planet for reasons unknown. Could possibly have to do with where my Chapter made their fortress monastery. ;)

 

The Sons of Sobek made their Fortress Monastery in the unusual landmark known as the Eye of Pactli. A massive crater, surrounded by ruins large enough to imply the area was once the capital city, with what appears to be a large mesa rising from the centre to reach back to the “ocean level”, made of a dark, psychically-resonant crystal which continues down into the planets crust as far as the Sons have delved.

Edited February 13, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Brother Lunkhead]

Nice work

 

 

Lord_Caerolion

Posted Yesterday, 11:07 PM

 

For the Chapter organization, it's intended that the Sons draw from the history of the Crusade-era Iron Hands with their practice of total war. As such, each of the War Clans operates as a whole, each of the 3 component Companies working together in the field. Each Company is responsible for their own recruiting. Tactically, the Chapter aims to create kill-zones, whether by laying an ambush, laying bait of "overextended" squads caught unawares, etc. The rest of the War Clan will either be hidden in concealed positions, or prepared for aerial/orbital insertion. In other words, they're a stealthy Chapter, but only until the battle starts, at which point they go all out, seeking the utter annihilation of the foe.

 

Your "total war" doctrine looks good. This should work just fine with all three clans working together.

 

For the questions on the Forge Master, I actually imagined the destruction of the Armory as total, even the Master of the Forge being killed. This battle with the Drowned really did mess the fledgling Chapter up badly. I hadn't fully fleshed this part out, but it could be that the Sons relied heavily on the Janizars at first while they established themselves, drawing on the culture of technoshamanism from the native population to influence their Librarians and Chaplains, and their own skills at Technomancy to allow them to stay somewhat functional as the Chapter rebuilt and evolved.

 

This is well thought out as well. Relying on the Janizars while rebuilding their forge infrastructure makes good sense and adopting the techno-shamanism of the local culture looks good too.

 

As Brother Bjorn pointed out, it's good to see that you've thought this all out so well.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That's part of what is making this take so long, I've got the rough idea of the Chapter, but I just don't want to explain away any details with a shrug. Nothing should exist in a vacuum, it should all have at least some sort of rationale for existing.

Even the division into 3 War Clans, instead of 4, or an evenly-split Chapter, comes back to the 3 surviving Companies after the war on Sobek. The way the Chapter saw it, in a literal sense that war was what changed them from members of the Unnumbered Sons into Sons of Sobek, so it's only right that the changes that war made upon them were guided by the Omnissiah, and therefore should remain in place.

... Actually, I'm liking that idea more and more. That was something just roughly fleshed out now, but that explains why they didn't seek to rebuild their cadre of Techpriests by seeking training from the Janizars. They see it that losing their Techpriests and taking a world with a culture of technomancy was obviously a sign from the Omnissiah that they shouldn't have Techpriests.

[Brother Cambrius]

Iron Hands without Techmarines? Now that is wonderfully divergent and has got me interested! :D

 

The story of their formation and forging during their deployment of Sobek is a nice and original concept too, alongside the Clan Structures. As they are Iron Hands descendants, do they experience the 'itch' to upgrade themselves with bionics or view the Flesh is Weak? Or in this instance with the shamanistic attitudes towards technology, do they with to bond further with their technology to communicate with it better in combat to ensure fluidity and peak performance?

 

The idea of the ice caps (well, sheets in this case as they are much bigger. Always remember, the cap on your head is smaller than the sheet on your bed ;) //end: Geography Graduate talk) melting is a solid idea for what led to the swamps and such from whatever big-nasty event happened during the DAoT, are there any technologies on the planet that have been scoured or located to be used or revered by the Sons of Sobek? Or had that already been scooped up by the Mechanicus centuries/millennia prior? 

 

How is their relationship with Mars, to get their material etc, since they no longer have dedicated Techmarines? Does Mars rankle at the idea of psykers or chaplains coming into their hallowed mechanical halls to learn the arts of the Machine?

 

A great start to build on here, I hope you and your friend have a field day with your armies as they build with Conquest too. :tu:

 

Cambrius

[Bjorn Firewalker]

That was something just roughly fleshed out now, but that explains why they didn't seek to rebuild their cadre of Techpriests by seeking training from the Janizars.

Emphasis mine. Don't you mean "Techmarines"?

They see it that losing their Techpriests and taking a world with a culture of technomancy was obviously a sign from the Omnissiah that they shouldn't have Techpriests.

Without Techmarines or Techpriests, how is the Chapter going to manufacture and maintain its war machines- boltguns and other weapons, power armor, tanks and transports, gunships and other aerospace support vehicles, the very ships that allow the Marines to fight battles on different planets?

 

A better explanation is the Chapter seeing the Techmarines' loss as a sign it shouldn't follow a specific sect of the Martian cult, e.g., the "radicals" who advocate adopting new arms and armor without first testing this technology to ensure it will not fail its wielders on the battlefield (or the "puritans" who refused to use new arms and armor that could've saved them in battle, if that's the narrative you want to support). The technomancy the Chapter adopted is a direct reflection of the replacement Techmarines' beliefs.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Thanks, Brother Cambrius.

 

The way the Chapter Cult operates, they don't have as much of a need to modify themselves with bionics, as they see the Marine and his armour as two halves of the same whole. They still have the same quasi-masochistic tendencies that the Iron Hands do, but in their eyes if the Emperor is the Omnissiah, and the geneseed was created by the Emperor to make Marines into what they are, then that form is therefore holy. Similarly, the armour that they wear, the vehicles they operate, and the machine spirits that animate it are equally holy. The Sons of Sobek would actually find the Iron Hands borderline heretical, as they are therefore insinuating that the holy works of the Emperor are flawed, and that they are above the Emperor in ability.

The end result of this mentality is that they still heavily punish themselves for their perceived failures, they merely lack the body dysmorphia that seems to grip the Iron Hands. The Chapter is also able to attain better performance from their armour and weaponry.

 

In regards to the ice caps, I also intend for there to be a bit of a hinted allusion that the planet currently only has shallow seas, so if the hypotheses that ancient mountains got flattened, perhaps there were also more traditionally deep seas that got "filled in", during whatever ancient calamity was inflicted upon the planet.

In short, Baal got destroyed in the Dark Age of Technology by nuclear weapons? That's for amateurs. It was the Dark Age of Technology, after all. Whatever was done here was apparently weaponised terraforming.

 

Apologies, I just realized I forgot to mention. This Chapter is on the far side of the Rift. Part of the reason for the lack of Techmarines is that they literally cannot send Marines back to Mars for further training, but instead are limited to their protectorate in the Imperium Nihilus. They and the Janizars have vassal worlds that are able to supply raw materials, and the Chapter still had their support vessels in the fleet, so they have manufacturing capabilities, alongside those of the Janizars, it's only the training that they had no ability, or even inclination, to replace.

 

The Librarians are involved in most of the more involved upkeep, overseeing repairs and maintenance of the smaller vehicles and weapons. Larger things, such as the naval ships, are still mostly kept running by the original serfs, with the Librarians providing assistance with their technomancy to reshape and repair as well.

Chaplains have training to handle most general upkeep and repairs of vehicles, and the Marines themselves are responsible for their arms and armour.

 

And yes, I keep slipping back into saying Techpriests instead of Techmarines.

 

EDIT: I mean, when you look at the scale of these things, the Techmarines can't be the ones responsible for the vast majority of the repair-work done on their fleet vessels etc, but the Cult-trained serfs and menials. These all still exist supporting the Chapter, and there's no doubt a not-insignificant amount of friction between the two when they are working alongside each other.

 

EDIT Part Two: I do definitely agree though, Bjorn Firewalker, that I can't just handwave away "oh, and then they got magic guys to replace their science guys and everything worked out, the end". I think I'll have to play up this idea of the remaining "traditionalists" of the Mechanicus-trained human repair crews and how they now have to operate under their "heathen" Astartes masters. What sorts of birthing pains were there during the creation of the technomancer/chaplain variants? Have the Astartes perhaps almost entirely handed over manufacture to these members of the old order, creating an almost feudal arrangement?

I'll have to think this over more.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Brother Lunkhead]

When you first stated the concept of the "Technoshaman" involving the Librarians and Chaplains of the Chapter I liked it (and I still do) and thought it very interesting and viable (I still believe that too), but the more you explain it, the more vague it seems to me.

 

 

Lord_Caerolion

Posted 13 February 2020 - 07:42 PM

 

The way the Chapter Cult operates, they don't have as much of a need to modify themselves with bionics, as they see the Marine and his armour as two halves of the same whole. They still have the same quasi-masochistic tendencies that the Iron Hands do, but in their eyes if the Emperor is the Omnissiah, and the geneseed was created by the Emperor to make Marines into what they are, then that form is therefore holy. Similarly, the armour that they wear, the vehicles they operate, and the machine spirits that animate it are equally holy. The Sons of Sobek would actually find the Iron Hands borderline heretical, as they are therefore insinuating that the holy works of the Emperor are flawed, and that they are above the Emperor in ability.

 

This looks good and I'm on board with it. It makes complete sense if you believe the Emperor is the Omnissiah.

 

The Chapter is also able to attain better performance from their armour and weaponry.

 

I'll come back to this, but how the Chapter achieves this is vague.

 

Apologies, I just realized I forgot to mention. This Chapter is on the far side of the Rift. Part of the reason for the lack of Techmarines is that they literally cannot send Marines back to Mars for further training, but instead are limited to their protectorate in the Imperium Nihilus. They and the Janizars have vassal worlds that are able to supply raw materials, and the Chapter still had their support vessels in the fleet, so they have manufacturing capabilities, alongside those of the Janizars,....

 

Your Technoshaman practice and philosophy implies this, so it works and the whole development of the Chapter philosophy makes general sense to me.

 

….it's only the training that they had no ability, or even inclination, to replace.

 

This, however does not. In spite of the dogma and superficial ritual of the Cult Mechanicus, this is where fundamental forge knowledge comes from. This is where the basic knowledge to build and repair everything comes from. So how is it that the Librarians and Chaplains gain technical knowledge if they have "no ability, or even inclination". The Forge Master and his Techmarines should be the initial source of their training, from which they gain all of the knowledge Mars imparted to the Janizars Forge Marines. It seems to me, that it is with this fundamental knowledge the Sons of Sobek form the foundation of their beliefs. Without that fundamental knowledge the Librarians and Chaplains, who have no technical knowledge, would have to start from ignorance. They aren't going to get it from the Chapter serfs.

 

With fundamental knowledge provided by the Janizars and without the hinderances of the Cult Mechanicus dogma, the Librarians and Chaplains are free to delve into the principles of true scientific theory and experimentation, thus allowing them to throw off the shackles of the AdMech and advance their technology.

 

 

The Librarians are involved in most of the more involved upkeep, overseeing repairs and maintenance of the smaller vehicles and weapons. Larger things, such as the naval ships, are still mostly kept running by the original serfs, with the Librarians providing assistance with their technomancy to reshape and repair as well.

Chaplains have training to handle most general upkeep and repairs of vehicles, and the Marines themselves are responsible for their arms and armour.

 

How do the Librarians and Chaplains do this given the lack of initial Forge training of the Janizars?

 

EDIT: I mean, when you look at the scale of these things, the Techmarines can't be the ones responsible for the vast majority of the repair-work done on their fleet vessels etc, but the Cult-trained serfs and menials.

 

Good point and I agree. However, serfs and menials don't have the same level of knowledge as a Forge Master or senior Techmarines.

 

I still like the basic idea of the Technoshaman philosophy a lot, but I think you need to work out the details on how it works..... or maybe I missed something ...... I am a LUNKHEAD you know 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Brother Lunkhead

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Good points, Brother Lunkhead. How about having the swamp world accomodate a relatively radical sect of Techpriests who constantly labor to keep machines working in the planet's environment, with its high humidity, high toxicity (from volcanic gases), high radiation (as the volcanic gases prevent the formation of an ozone layer that would otherwise shield the planet from the sun's radiation)? The Techpriests have minimal augmetics, to reduce their own maintenance needs; they favor simple tools and designs, i.e., those requiring minimal maintenance.

 

When the Sons of Sobek lose their Techmarines, the swamp world's native Techpriests offer to train replacements for the Chapter. The Chapter ends up adopting the Techpriests' shamanic rituals (maintenance rituals adapted for the swamp world's available resources and challenging environment) as a direct consequence.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Lord_Caerolion]

Thinking further about it, you’re right. I was relying too heavily on the existence of the Reforge psychic power as a crutch, with my Chapter just fixing major things with magic. My previous logic was that the Librarians were able to commune directly with the “religious” machine spirits, not just the “laymans explanation for physics” machine spirits, and given the Omnissiah is the source of all knowledge these spirits are able to impart the necessary knowledge for repairing them. I’d still like to keep elements of that, but obviously it can’t be the sole source of their abilities and training.

 

Ok, so, the native caste of Technoshamans are now a highly divergent creed of Techpriests, who do understand more than they let on to the rest of the population. They have been tending the archaeotech caches remaining on the planet, attempting to study it in the hopes of finding a working STC in some as-yet undiscovered vault.

 

Thank you for all your assistance with this, this is exactly what I was needing to get this all figured out, and show me the flaws I couldn’t see.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Idea on WHY the planet's volcanoes erupted with such force, the ozone layer is gone:

 

You previously hinted the reason the Chapter planet is a swamp world, was due to Nurgle cults' shenanigans. What if the reason the volcanoes erupted was due to Khorne cults' efforts to purge the planet of Nurgle's influence? Without an ozone layer, traditional disease vectors (fungi, bacteria, viruses) have a MUCH harder time surviving solar radiation.

 

World Eater: "We lost 10,000 cultists and 10 brothers when we ignited the planet's core and made all its volcanoes erupt; we purged the world of the Plague God's influence, only to lose it to the False Emperor's lapdogs. Was it worth it?"

 

Khârn the Betrayer: "To deny this world and its resources to the Plague God? Yes. We will retreat for now, and let the volcanoes destroy most sources of food, potable water, and shelter, forcing its inhabitants to fight and kill each other for those resources; in time, the world will become a crucible for forging hardened killers; then we shall return to conquer it, show its peoples Khorne's glory, and raise these peoples into an army worthy of serving the Blood God! Khorne's will be done!"

 

World Eaters: "Khorne's will be done!"

Edited February 19, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Brother Lunkhead]

Good points, Brother Lunkhead. How about having the swamp world accomodate a relatively radical sect of Techpriests who constantly labor to keep machines working in the planet's environment, with its high humidity, high toxicity (from volcanic gases), high radiation (as the volcanic gases prevent the formation of an ozone layer that would otherwise shield the planet from the sun's radiation)? The Techpriests have minimal augmetics, to reduce their own maintenance needs; they favor simple tools and designs, i.e., those requiring minimal maintenance.

 

When the Sons of Sobek lose their Techmarines, the swamp world's native Techpriests offer to train replacements for the Chapter. The Chapter ends up adopting the Techpriests' shamanic rituals (maintenance rituals adapted for the swamp world's available resources and challenging environment) as a direct consequence.

 

 

Thinking further about it, you’re right. I was relying too heavily on the existence of the Reforge psychic power as a crutch, with my Chapter just fixing major things with magic. My previous logic was that the Librarians were able to commune directly with the “religious” machine spirits, not just the “laymans explanation for physics” machine spirits, and given the Omnissiah is the source of all knowledge these spirits are able to impart the necessary knowledge for repairing them. I’d still like to keep elements of that, but obviously it can’t be the sole source of their abilities and training.

 

Ok, so, the native caste of Technoshamans are now a highly divergent creed of Techpriests, who do understand more than they let on to the rest of the population. They have been tending the archaeotech caches remaining on the planet, attempting to study it in the hopes of finding a working STC in some as-yet undiscovered vault.

 

Thank you for all your assistance with this, this is exactly what I was needing to get this all figured out, and show me the flaws I couldn’t see.

 

Sorry to be so late in replying.....

 

Brother Bjorn, I really like your ideas behind the Technoshamen I think that this is what is needed to solve the problem of the loss of the Chapter's forge masters. However, it does not completely solve the problem yet. After battle not all war fighting equipment is going to be repairable in the conventional sense. Weapons, tanks, armor, etc. is going to need to be replaced. Without the manufacturing facilities of a Forge World, how will your chapter procure new war goodies I'm going to meander here for a moment......

 

In the audio drama Censure, Aeonid Theil and Trooper Rowd come across a war damaged Rhino while seeking shelter from the rising berserk sun. Theil hopes that the APC can self-repair. This got me to thinking on how this is accomplished. I suggest nanotechnology This is not the first time this self-repairing technology is mentioned, but it's not something that is delved into in any detail. I suppose the Magos and Techpriests of the AdMech are aware is this technology, but probably don't have enough understanding to unleash it's full potential. I suggest that the radical Techpriests of the Sons' new homeworld do. They are able to commune with the "machine spirit" of nanites to not only repair devastating damage to equipment but actually create new engines without STC's. Due to the micro nature of these drones, the process is slow and complicated, so this otherwise miraculous feat is no faster than production methods of the Mechanicus, perhaps it is even slower. This, I think will eliminate your Chapter's need of a Forge World...… mostly

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I suggest nanotechnology This is not the first time this self-repairing technology is mentioned, but it's not something that is delved into in any detail. I suppose the Magos and Techpriests of the AdMech are aware is this technology, but probably don't have enough understanding to unleash it's full potential. I suggest that the radical Techpriests of the Sons' new homeworld do. They are able to commune with the "machine spirit" of nanites to not only repair devastating damage to equipment but actually create new engines without STC's. Due to the micro nature of these drones, the process is slow and complicated, so this otherwise miraculous feat is no faster than production methods of the Mechanicus, perhaps it is even slower. This, I think will eliminate your Chapter's need of a Forge World...… mostly

An interesting idea, but one which must be implemented with full understanding of the technology's limits, as detailed here. Due to these limits, it may be best to combine it with an actual manufactory. Say a forge ship with an onboard manufactory and a nanotech crew interface, crashed on the future Chapter planet in millennia past. The technoshamans eventually learn to... somehow... interface with the nanotech, feed the onboard manufactory raw materials (a process that can be described as a religious offering or even sacrifice) and order the manufactory to turn the raw materials into a desired product, and then order the forge ship's still functional teleporters to transport the products to a location of their choice (the result can easily be described as a miracle or even immaculate construction).

Edited February 20, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Brother Lunkhead]

A good point Brother Bjorn, but I think I covered that here:

 

Brother Lunkhead

Posted Today, 04:57 PM

 

Due to the micro nature of these drones, the process is slow and complicated, so this otherwise miraculous feat is no faster than production methods of the Mechanicus, perhaps it is even slower.

 

Even biological organisms are immensely complicated on the molecular level. Molecular machines can be almost equally complicated, but would certainly not be a panacea answer, just a different kind of technology...… Also, we are operating in a sci fi/fantasy universe here, so some leeway (okay, a lot of leeway) needs to be allowed

 

I suggest that from studying the archaeotech already available to them along with the mastery of nanotech, the  Technoshamen already have a understanding of manufacturing technique, except primarily in the form of molecular manufacturing. However, access to a crashed forge ship wouldn't hurt.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Brother Lunkhead

[Lord_Caerolion]

Sorry, just to clarify but there’s no Nurgle taint in what caused the swamps, but rather Dark Age weaponised terraforming. I hadn’t thought about it causing volcanic activity, but it would certainly make sense.

The whole “Death Guard left the planet alone” thing was a bit of a holdover from having the Eye of Pactli somewhat psychically resonant, perhaps even being the means of the terraforming.

 

Regarding the nanotechnology, perhaps this is where the Librarians are able to assist. They still have their fleet, so have some manufacturing capability there, combine this with the nanotechnology and psychic assistance from the Librarius, and that could provide enough manufacturing ability to at least survive.

 

The other option is that, well, who says they have to make it all themselves? They do have a protectorate, it could be there’s a Hive World who repays the protection by producing materiel for the Chapters.

[Brother Lunkhead]

Lord_Caerolion

Posted Yesterday, 08:38 PM

 

Regarding the nanotechnology, perhaps this is where the Librarians are able to assist. They still have their fleet, so have some manufacturing capability there, combine this with the nanotechnology and psychic assistance from the Librarius, and that could provide enough manufacturing ability to at least survive.

The other option is that, well, who says they have to make it all themselves? They do have a protectorate, it could be there’s a Hive World who repays the protection by producing materiel for the Chapters.

 

Looks like a good balance...… that should work nicely

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Sorry, just to clarify but there’s no Nurgle taint in what caused the swamps, but rather Dark Age weaponised terraforming.

You hear that? That's the sound of Techpriests pulling out all stops to get their hands on the technology responsible for such devastation. Think of what weaponised terraforming will do to worlds the Orks, Tau, Tyranids, and other foul xenos hold!

 

Your Technoshamans' rites and rituals don't match with those of Mars? The Fabricator-General will make an exception for them, so long as the shamans give Mars all available data on weaponised terraforming, preferably including samples of the technology.

The other option is that, well, who says they have to make it all themselves? They do have a protectorate, it could be there’s a Hive World who repays the protection by producing materiel for the Chapters.

This works best, in my opinion.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Unfortunately, whatever did the terraforming is long lost. The existence of the Eye of Pactli is intended to imply that whatever happened, the natives were the victims of it, with the current population being those who survived whatever annihilation was inflicted 15 or 20 thousand years ago. Of course, you can't know that for certain, and maybe the knowledge is in this next vault. No, not that one? Ok, maybe this one. No...

 

And yes, I think I'll go with the protectorate solution. Cool as it might be, having nanotech making all my vehicles seems a bit too "special snowflake". I've already got "unique organization" and "unique characters", if I add on "super cool special nanotech noone else has" it'll be a bit much.