Sons of Sobek - Updated 25/8/20

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Cool as it might be, having nanotech making all my vehicles seems a bit too "special snowflake". I've already got "unique organization" and "unique characters", if I add on "super cool special nanotech noone else has" it'll be a bit much.

I'm glad you have the wisdom and the self-restraint to recognize this. (Glares at Matt Ward, Roberto Orci, Rian Johnson, Alex Kurtzman, and more Marvel and DC Comics employees than I can count.)

Edited February 21, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Lord_Caerolion]

The only other "Mary Sue" stuff I'm having is a few bits of scattered archaeotech through the command levels of the Chapter. My Chapter Master model is Feirros with Tyberos' arms and a Reiver helmet, and he's managed to get himself a Displacer Field instead of the usual Refractor/Converter Field (no difference in rules, just a standard Gravis Captain/CM with Burning Blade).

 

My general rule of thumb is to remember that your Chapter is small-time. You can have cool stuff, but you shouldn't beat the uniqueness of the First Founding. The more you push the awesome-meter in one area, the less you're allowed to push it in others. You can max it out in one area, then be stock standard everywhere else, or you can be a bit awesome in all areas, but no "set everything to 11!" Want "super-kewl" bone claws like the Black Dragons? Fine, but you're standard in every other way.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'll try to get some pictures up soon, but I've converted up my Chief Librarian, still need to attach some fabric to him. Essentially, he's based on a EtB Reiver, with a Canoptek Wraith faceplate as a mask, with added horns. Trying to base him somewhat in appearance on the Banuk Shamans from Horizon Zero Dawn.

Still torn on the name for the Librarians, maybe Spiritspeakers? Techspeakers?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

"Spirit Speakers" sounds better as a Chapter-specific term for Librarians. "Tech Speakers" may be appropriate for Techmarines.

 

Incidentally, as Sobek is an Ancient Egyptian deity, how about naming the Chapter's specialists after other deities, e.g., "Thoth" for Librarians, "Anubis" for Chaplains, and "Ptah" for Techmarines?

Edited February 27, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Lord_Caerolion]

Ok, thinking about it, I might go with Spirit Speakers for the Chaplains, given their Chapter-specific function is forming better bonds between Marine and their armors Machine Spirit, and Tothmesan Priests/Shamans, for the Librarians. Both are members of the Cahjaran Order.

 

While the Chapter name is taken straight from an Egyptian deity, I follow a similar rule to the "awesomeness" one when it comes to naming, in that I try to keep direct copies to a minimum, to keep things from becoming simply "Space X", in this case Space Egyptians. The name of the Fortress Monastery, the Eye of Pactli, is derived from an Aztec crocodilian monster, Cipactli, other planned names are quasi-Greek (Chapter Master Sukheiros, the Lord of Bloodied Waters).

[Lord_Caerolion]

After taking my sweet sweet time due to my absolute laziness and distraction from numerous other projects, I've got some slight updates on the Sons of Sobek.

 

First is the render of the colour scheme:

 

and a test model:

 

Lastly, we have the Chapter Ancient and the mostly-finished Chief Librarian:

 

EDIT: I'm working on redoing the first post into being an actual Index article.

Edited July 2, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Chapter colors look good, as does your test model. The Chapter Ancient and the Chief Librarian, though, are obviously wielding Necron artifacts.

 

Did the Marines find archeotech of... questionable... origin when they claimed the Chapter planet? Is the Chapter planet a Necron tomb world? Will the Chapter suffer problems as a direct consequence, e.g., the Necron technology they use will draw the soulless xenos' attention, possibly leading to a Necron invasion of the Chapter planet, and/or the tomb world's inhabitants awakening in the future?

[Lord_Caerolion]

I'm hoping the banner will look more non-Necron once painted, and I'm considering filling the circuitry patterns in with green-stuff. I definitely think I should redo the Librarian to change his staff. It started off with just buying the Canoptek Wraith box to get the mask for the Librarian, as I'm trying to have the Librarians and Chaplains have elements of the Banuk Shamans from Horizon Zero Dawn. His mask should look suitably different once he's had his parchment added.

 

I'll probably go back to my initial plans to use Seraphon bits instead of the assorted Necron stuff I've got now, it's making them look too high-tech, not technoshaman.

[Lord_Caerolion]

First post has been edited to add the half-done write-up using a template stolen copied from the Knights of the Rhine thread. I hope to get most of the rest of it finished up in the next few days.

 

EDIT: I'll also be replacing the Librarians staff head with the head of the staff of the Skink Starpriest from AoS.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Origin and Founding

Geneseed

Beliefs

Battlefield Doctrine

Organization

 

 

Chapter Culture

 

 

Recruitment

 

 

Training

 

 

Home-world

 

 

Culture

I advise bolding these words, differentiating the section titles from the sections themselves. The rewritten OP is otherwise well-organized.

[Lord_Caerolion]

That'll teach me to copy from my phone without making sure the formatting is correct.

 

EDIT: Now bolded and underlined, should stand out a lot better now.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[KBA]

Interesting and well thought out could chapter concept! I love your take on IH successors and how they contrast against the traditional sons of Manus. Have you thought of following the (loose) traditional outline for an IA? The Octaguide on IA’s really opened my eyes

On what were all trying to emulate with our articles. Worth a read if you haven’t!

[Lord_Caerolion]

Interesting and well thought out could chapter concept! I love your take on IH successors and how they contrast against the traditional sons of Manus. Have you thought of following the (loose) traditional outline for an IA? The Octaguide on IA’s really opened my eyes

On what were all trying to emulate with our articles. Worth a read if you haven’t!

 

I actually don't think I'd seen that before. I'll definitely give it a proper read over the weekend. I've had the rough outline, and some general information written down, but I'd yet to get it properly organized, so to be honest just grabbed one of the other IA entries from the site, and took the format from that.

 

Thank you for the comments, KBA. I've noticed I have a habit of coming up with "divergent" Chapters, as part of an inherent dislike for the somewhat common perception that Successors need to be copies of their founder in outlook, mentality, and tactics. I'd even changed the initial thought of the founder (Salamanders) because I didn't want to fall into the trap of "vague reptilian theme equals must be from reptile-themed founder". 

Part of the hardest element of this is I really don't like just hand-waving a lot of stuff. It has to make sense in-universe, even if the logic behind it doesn't make sense to us personally. For example, why do they Sons stay using the formations of 3 Hunting Companies instead of going Codex-adherent? Well, they're religious, and see the decimation of their Chapter on Sobek as a sign from the Omnissiah. They had 3 Companies left, so obviously that's how they're meant to operate. 3 War Lodges, with 3 Hunting Companies each. Not logical to us, but to the Sons it makes perfect sense.

Similarly, the idea of being from a swamp world, even though I loathe Star-Wars-esque "single biome planets" with a vengeance. Fortunately the Frater here have been excellent for helping me build that into a more believable idea.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Added a section on the Organization of the Chapter. I think it might need clearing up, but I hope it's at least somewhat coherent.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

The Chapter is divided into 3 War Lodges, comprised of 3 Hunting Companies, each roughly equivalent to a slightly overstrength Battle Company in a more Codex-adherent Chapter. The Company does not contain any Reserve, Scout, or Veteran Companies.

Emphasis mine. Do you mean, "The Chapter does not contain any Reserve, Scout, or Veteran Companies," or "The Company does not contain any Reserve, Scout, or Veteran Squads"?

A further distinction is the lack of any Techmarines, instead being replaced by a combination of Chaplains and Librarians known as the Cahjaran Order. The Chaplains assist in the connections between Marine and Machine Spirit, allowing for deeper bonds between user and wargear, while the Librarians utilize their technomancy to enact repairs.

If Aaron Dembski-Bowden's The Emperor's Gift is any indication, it takes 50 years to train a Techmarine... on Mars, which has the best training facilities in the Imperium, as it's the center of the Cult Mechanicus. I doubt a Librarian's technomancy will compensate for the lack of the specialized training a Techmarine receives.

 

It may make sense to merge the positions of Chaplain and Techmarine- that was what the 5th and earlier Editions' "Iron Father" was, before 6th Edition's Clan Raukaan Codex supplement specified an "Iron Father" was an honorary title given to those who served in an advisory position, including Apothecaries, Librarians, Chaplains and Techmarines (now separate roles)- but those who service the Chapter's machines will still require DECADES of specialized training, in specialized facilities.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Lord_Caerolion]

In regards to the Companies, yes that first "company" was meant to be "Chapter". That's what I get for writing quickly at work. In essence, the Chapter has 9 Battle Companies, that each contain slightly more Veterans than normal, as well as a "Reserve Squad", and a complement of Scouts. They might be non-Codex in their organization, but they try to stick close to the 1000 Battle Brothers thing. 990 Batteline/Close/Fire Support squads, plus scouts and 10-15 Company Veterans per Company.

 

As for the Order, this is where I'll rely on technomancy as a bit of a crutch. You're right that the Chaplains will be more of an Iron Father position, they aren't the ones doing the heavy lifting when it comes to repairs. 

The Librarians though, we know from the Iron Hands that technomancy is capable of repairing vehicles, they don't need to know how to manually repair it themselves (the Reforge power: "Pressing his hand against rent vehicle armour, the psyker chants binharic incantations that urge the machine to repair itself. Wiring reknits, damaged energy cells are sealed, and buckled armour flattens and reforms"). Construction is still done by the protectorate Hive Worlds, and the local tech-priests can assist as required, but it's the intention that the Librarians don't have the knowledge that a Techmarine would. 

Remove the psychic abilities, and the Librarians have no true mechanical knowledge. They know about machine spirits, and the holy Motive Force sent forth by the Omnissiah, that sort of thing. With their powers though, they don't really need it. So long as they've got a vehicle that's still somewhat intact, given enough time they can psychically repair it fully.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

So long as they've got a vehicle that's still somewhat intact, given enough time they can psychically repair it fully.

And if "enough time" is unavailable, due to fast-paced battles and the need to rapidly redeploy to other theaters? If the Librarian is drained due to expending all his psychic energies attacking a Daemon, or defending against the Daemon's attacks? In the absence of Techmarines, the Chapter will be forced to rely on Techpriest Enginseers from the forge world, sacrificing much of the autonomy a Space Marine Chapter relies on to quickly and competently fight its wars- NOT ideal.

[Lord_Caerolion]

If we extrapolate from the power (and yes, I know game terms are not fully compatible), they can repair an average of 2 wounds to a vehicle each "turn", which can't be that long of a time-frame. If they're really that hard-pressed, then it would be likely that a Techmarine wouldn't be able to undertake the same repairs either, and so they'll be unable to make use of that particular vehicle for the time being. I should say, they've also got the Techpriests of their home world that they can draw on too. They've also increased the size of their Librarius to take into account the additional role that they've taken on. 

 

Does it put them at a bit of a disadvantage compared to some other Chapters? Yeah. However, that's again, partly the point of the idea behind the Chapter. Just remember though that they also don't require materials in order to enact these repairs.

[KBA]

If we extrapolate from the power (and yes, I know game terms are not fully compatible), they can repair an average of 2 wounds to a vehicle each "turn", which can't be that long of a time-frame. If they're really that hard-pressed, then it would be likely that a Techmarine wouldn't be able to undertake the same repairs either, and so they'll be unable to make use of that particular vehicle for the time being. I should say, they've also got the Techpriests of their home world that they can draw on too. They've also increased the size of their Librarius to take into account the additional role that they've taken on. 

 

Does it put them at a bit of a disadvantage compared to some other Chapters? Yeah. However, that's again, partly the point of the idea behind the Chapter. Just remember though that they also don't require materials in order to enact these repairs.

Im interested to see how you flesh it out— as the aspect works for the chapter as well as against it. It’s something I haven’t seen before. I love things that Chapters are forced to do that gives them that uniqueness which also comes with a host of consequences.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I do understand that this is the weakest portion of the Chapter fluff, relying on that most aggravating of handwaves of "a wizard did it/it was magic", but this was kind of one of the things I'd been intending to explore with this Chapter. We see so often the discussion of the "meCANicus vs meCANTicus", as I've seen it referred to, as to whether they actually understand technology at all, or just know it all as religious mumbo-jumbo that if they say the magic words, and spray the holy oil, then press the sacred button, then POOF the Machine God makes the machine alive. I've never ascribed to that theory for the actual Cult Mechanicus itself, seeing it that while they may dress it in religious dogma, the Mechanicus very much do understand high level astrophysics, quantum mechanics, and all that stuff.

This Chapter was partly an attempt to have some fun with the other side of it, an Imperial force to whom technology was all an unknowable mystery, understood only as Machine Spirits, sacred dogmas, and highly ritualized religion. While this couldn't work for trying to manually repair highly-complex machinery such as Land Raiders and whatnot, when combined with the literally physics-breaking concept of technomancy, it becomes at least somewhat workable.

 

It's definitely the laziest bit of writing that I have, that "it all works because of magic space wizards doing fancy robo-magic, and they have more magic space wizards than other space knight armies". Even so, this is a galaxy where warrior nuns believe so hard in their god that they literally immolate their enemies.

I just look at it this way: a Techmarine can do jury-rig field-repairs to get things back in the fight, and undertake much higher quality repairs given appropriate time and resources. The Librarians of the Sons can do these higher quality repairs without needing resources, and do so in the middle of a fight, but at the cost of being done through psychic powers, with all that that entails. Does it have downsides? Yeah, but so does relying on having the required physical resources, as well as having to manually take the thing apart to reach the broken bit, then put it back together.

 

EDIT: If this is coming across as dismissive or snarky, that's certainly not my intention. I just see the downsides to the practices of the Sons as a feature, not a bug.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Lord_Caerolion

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As you're having Librarians repair machines via the power of the Warp, do the Chaplains have to regularly inspect the Librarians' work, to make sure the Chapter's vehicles and weapons are not Daemonically possessed?

[Lord_Caerolion]

As you're having Librarians repair machines via the power of the Warp, do the Chaplains have to regularly inspect the Librarians' work, to make sure the Chapter's vehicles and weapons are not Daemonically possessed?

 

That... is actually an awesome idea, and can be considered stolen. 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

 

As you're having Librarians repair machines via the power of the Warp, do the Chaplains have to regularly inspect the Librarians' work, to make sure the Chapter's vehicles and weapons are not Daemonically possessed?

That... is actually an awesome idea, and can be considered stolen.

Thanks. I wonder if the Librarians will INTENTIONALLY try to imbue a weapon with a spirit... and what consequences that will have?

 

Is it First Company Champion [insert name]'s spirit that imbues the Land Raider Emperor's Wrath, allowing the venerable vehicle to fight the Chapter's enemies with precision... or a Daemon of Tzeentch, manipulating the Chapter into eliminating the Daemons in service to Tzeentch's rivals? Is it the Imperial Saint [insert name]'s spirit that imbues this power sword, making all its wielders a prodigy with the weapon, no matter their training and experience, and allowing them to defeat opponents more menacing than them... or a Daemon of Slaanesh, slowly but surely corrupting the sword's wielders by offering the skill necessary to win the acclaim they so desire?

Edited July 25, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[gripschi]

Sound great Björns Twist. It provide you with something unique.

 

It did remember me of the Soul Drinkers demise. Slowly pulled in Service of the Chaos Gods.

 

And it does happen that "Saints" arent the Enpores one. In Grey Knights Novel they did something Like that with...Saint Eviser..or how he is called.

 

When you want to play Chaos, you have a good foundation.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Oh, I've already got 2 home-brew Chaos warbands that I'm vaguely working on (Vectorium of Sanguine Fecundity for my Death Guard, and the Host of the Gilded Lord, name subject to change in this case) for my standard Chaos.

 

I should clarify though, the spirits in this case aren't spirits of prior battle-brothers, or saints, or anything like that. They're just the standard Machine Spirits. There's no "the thought the spirit was an Imperial saint when really it was a Khorne daemon playing pretend", they don't get spirits added to them. They're just an inherent aspect of any machine.

 

...which of course means that any Librarian who is actually trying to add a "better" one himself is definitely getting a rather stern meeting with a Chaplain.