How much infantry?

[wulfgar hammerfist]

Hello commanders! I have been away from the game for quite awhile now but I am dipping my toe back into 40K. I played some 8th early on but had a long break. It seems like a much different game now. Anyhow, PA has piqued my interest again and I'm going back in with Guard.

 

The local meta is ITC focused with Marines and Chaos being most prevalent. What do you think is the optimal number of infantry Squads to field? What is the best equipment load out for them?

 

I was thinking of something like this due to the prevalence of power armor:

 

SGT with boltgun, 1 plasma gun, 8 lasguns.

 

Thanks in advance for any advice.

[sairence]

In a balanced list you're probably looking at 60-90 infantry. You don't really want less unless you have a specific plan, because especially Marines can kill 50-60 of them in the first turn. In an infantry-focused list you're looking at 100+

 

As for load-out...I tend to run mine barebones with no upgrades, because I like to bring a good amount of tanks for damage.

Edited February 16, 2020 by sairence

[WarriorFish]

Welcome back :) As sairence says you need more infantry than before mostly due to the new Marines and their strong shooting, but otherwise things are much the same as early 8th for Guard infantry. The main change here is that grenade launchers are dirt cheap so along with flamers they're all I need for my infantry; keeps costs down but adds some versatility and extra punch respectively :)

 

Your armour is what does the main killing so infantry is better focused on holding the line and capturing objectives. Power armour in particular has plenty of foes in the Guard's mechanised arsenal ;)

[Mr4Minutes]

Welcome back! The ITC is in the middle of updating their mission packet right now, and with the early look at the “beta” version it seems that board control armies are going to be particularly strong.

 

As sairence says you’re going to need a lot of bodies and bare bones is probably the best because they’re easily killed and you’re probably not going to get the points value back on their extra gear.

 

The load out really depends on how you’d like to use them. Are you planning on using chimeras and do an armored mobile unit or are you foot slogging.

 

Also what regiment are you looking at playing? A named one like tallarn or Cadian? Or will you be using the new build a regiment rules?

[War Angel]

270.....

[HallofStovokor]

A typical guard list at 2000 points will have between 60-110 Guardsmen. 60 is the bare minimum because they die if someone farts in the direction of the table. As for loadout I'll break it down.

 

No upgrades: never a bad choice, but not for me.

 

Snipers: very situational. If you're guarding an artillery piece it won't be bad.

 

Grenade Launchers: my favorite upgrade. Usually worth it, but there's argument to leave them out.

 

Plasma gun: solid choice, but is expensive.

 

Meltagun: really only viable on veterans or scions

 

Flamers: hot garbage

 

Bolters: a good upgrade for sergeants if you have the points.

 

Powerswords/power fists/power axe/power mauls: only makes sense on a catachan sergeant or officer.

 

Voxcasters: really only good for Cadians running STT, but has more utility than flamers and snipers

 

Missile launchers: great for a static squad defending a artillery or objectives.

 

Lascannons: see missile launchers

 

Heavy Bolter: not terrible, but I'd rather use something with more punch.

 

Autocannons: used to be a good anti-light vehicle weapon, but points drops on missile launchers make them kind of pointless.

 

Mortars: better in a hidden heavy weapons squad, but has been made so expensive that they no longer worth their price.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I appreciate all of the advice. I'm playing around with a three battalion set with 90 infantry. I haven't decided on whether to use a named Regiment or go with a custom one. I'm still waiting on my book. I'll post a list in the appropriate board so you can see how the list is shaping up and maybe offer some advice.

[noigrim]

Never enough!

[Mordian Glory]

270.....

This!

[War Angel]

 

270.....

This!

How’s your all infantry list doing with psychic awakening?

[HallofStovokor]

 

 

270.....

This!

How’s your all infantry list doing with psychic awakening?

I know he did a video where he ran his steel legion as a bunch of custom regiments.

[GuardDaddy]

my favourite 'general use' squad is 52pts. Plasma gun and plasma pistol. Simple to use as plasma gun and lasguns have same range, and both get rapid fire under 12". The plasma pistol also happens to be 12". So its an easy squad to use and broad aim of getting under 12" is easy to remember.

[Trickstick]

my favourite 'general use' squad is 52pts. Plasma gun and plasma pistol. Simple to use as plasma gun and lasguns have same range, and both get rapid fire under 12". The plasma pistol also happens to be 12". So its an easy squad to use and broad aim of getting under 12" is easy to remember.

I prefer plasma gun and bolter. Slightly cheaper, all weapons are 24" rapid fire for ease of use, and no chance of losing leadership by frying your sergeant.

 

I'd probably take lasgun sergeants if they were still an option.

Edited February 17, 2020 by Trickstick

[GuardDaddy]

@trickster - makes sense. My rationale been every way of squeezing plasma in as damage 2 is so good v marines.

[tychobi]

In reality until something changes guard infantry are never going to scare a decent space marine player no matter load out or number. They are going to have the bullets to put your infantry down. To compete with marines I suggest looking to other aspects of the astra militarum codex as your back bone.

 

In direct answer to your original question 3 units no upgrades for objective camping and command point generation would be in my opinion optimal.

[War Angel]

In reality until something changes guard infantry are never going to scare a decent space marine player no matter load out or number. They are going to have the bullets to put your infantry down. To compete with marines I suggest looking to other aspects of the astra militarum codex as your back bone.

In direct answer to your original question 3 units no upgrades for objective camping and command point generation would be in my opinion optimal.

271.....

[HallofStovokor]

In reality until something changes guard infantry are never going to scare a decent space marine player no matter load out or number. They are going to have the bullets to put your infantry down. To compete with marines I suggest looking to other aspects of the astra militarum codex as your back bone.

 

In direct answer to your original question 3 units no upgrades for objective camping and command point generation would be in my opinion optimal.

While I agree that infantry squads are weak compared to intercessors, I don't think that you can judge their value on total killing efficiency. Infantry squads are the best unit in the codex hands down. They're dirt cheap and fast, and they can punch way above their weight.

[wulfgar hammerfist]

In reality until something changes guard infantry are never going to scare a decent space marine player no matter load out or number. They are going to have the bullets to put your infantry down. To compete with marines I suggest looking to other aspects of the astra militarum codex as your back bone.

 

In direct answer to your original question 3 units no upgrades for objective camping and command point generation would be in my opinion optimal.

I find this comment intriguing.  In conversations with other players, a few of them have suggested looking to Scions to fulfill troop requirements due to their ability to go into reserves and thus preserve their strength until needed.  I can see the merit in their logic but it would require an extensive adjustment in tactics and list design to pull off.  While killing things is always important, the ITC missions have shifted toward more objective oriented games.  Perhaps this will give Guard an advantage?  I don't think I am ready to forego the humble infantry squad just yet.  

[Trickstick]

I don't quite understand the min-infantry approach. I think 60 is the absolute minimum you could take, and even then it is probably too few. 60 is what you need to take a brigade or two battalions, which you kind of need to get a reasonable number of command points. Especially now that we got a load of new stratagems, cp are so useful.

 

Plus infantry are great for board control and screening.

[Acturis]

The right amount really depends upon the army you are facing. Meta in my area is Ironhands and Chaos. Dont expect your infantry to do much outside of forcing them to move when you capture objectives.

 

I love facing against Nids because my infantry actually get to do things!

 

I tend to run a bunch of standard infantry. No upgrades. My units are usually deleted before they get to do anything. But when they do, FRFSRF with rerolling 1s (harker, garrick, laurels, cadian rerolls), they can really bring the pain.

 

I havent tried any of the new PA material. Cant comment quite yet.

 

I agree with the above statements for how much to bring in a 2k game. 60 seems to be a minum. I'd rather lose 2 squads to a Khorne berserker charge than a Russ. (Maybe a hellhound, if only for the fact I have a chance to take a few of them with me).

[GuardDaddy]

lots of sensible commentary here

 

I'd just chuck in to the mix that infantry are the building block of detachments. CP are fun and a big pat of 8th is working these into your gameplay. Detachments fuel that.

 

Triple Battalion (90 infantry) for example gives you lots of options and lots of CP (5+5+5+3)

[CaptainMarsh]

I don't even begin list building until I have 120 infantry running around.

Edited February 21, 2020 by CaptainMarsh

[wulfgar hammerfist]

What about including veteran Squads? I am thinking of including three squads with triple grenade launchers and missile launcher as backfield objective campers; perhaps with Creed to give them all orders. The rest of the infantry would be 60-90 regular infantry.

[duz_]

What about including veteran Squads? I am thinking of including three squads with triple grenade launchers and missile launcher as backfield objective campers; perhaps with Creed to give them all orders. The rest of the infantry would be 60-90 regular infantry.

They new strat that gives them an extra ap is nice but unfortunately vets still aren't troops

[Shamansky]

What about including veteran Squads? I am thinking of including three squads with triple grenade launchers and missile launcher as backfield objective campers; perhaps with Creed to give them all orders. The rest of the infantry would be 60-90 regular infantry.

Veterans are still a strange choice. They're comparativley expensive because of their BS 3+,  and they die as easily as rank and file troopers. And in your suggested setup i'd consider swapping grenade launchers to either plasmaguns (which will rise the cost of the squad sugnificantly) or sniper rifles (which are 1 point cheaper than grenade launchers and have longer range). That will take the most of their main advantage of BS 3+ and Cadian doctrine.