Size of the Ashen Claws in the 41st Millenium

[Moonreaper666]

As a 10k year old, not-in-the-warp, Renegade Chapter that doesn't have to defend the dying Imperium how many Marines and Ships do they have? Do they outnumber the RG and the Successor Chapters?

[Ekim_Trub]

As far as I am aware, there are no hard figures or facts about the Ashen Claws, and they are only mentioned outside ofbthe Black Books are in the Carcharodons novels.

 

I personally can't help with that info as I don't have the books. (They're on the "to buy' list though.)

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

They're doing pretty badly in the current timeline despite managing to survive pretty well for 10,000 years. They're definitely not larger or more successful than the Raven Guard. Their operations are limited to their home base's system which is pretty barren.

 

 

 

The Ashen Claws continued to survive for Terran millennia by raiding Imperial holdings. But by the mid-800's of the 41st Millennium, this Renegade Chapter had become indolent and fearful. Though they still occupied Atargatis and dominated its tribes, they rarely forayed beyond its borders. Their prey had been reduced to outlying void clusters and lost human colonies and they had not struck an active, tithe-paying Imperial holding for many years.

 

I can confirm that 40K Wiki information as it's taken from the Outer Dark Carcharodons novel. They have enough power that a single company fleet considered them dangerous and wouldn't have been able to fight them and survive or brute-force the negotiations, but that's to be expected as a single company can't overwhelm even a damaged or starving chapter which likely has hundreds of Marines and several ships.

[Moonreaper666]

They're doing pretty badly in the current timeline despite managing to survive pretty well for 10,000 years. They're definitely not larger or more successful than the Raven Guard. Their operations are limited to their home base's system which is pretty barren.

 

The Ashen Claws continued to survive for Terran millennia by raiding Imperial holdings. But by the mid-800's of the 41st Millennium, this Renegade Chapter had become indolent and fearful. Though they still occupied Atargatis and dominated its tribes, they rarely forayed beyond its borders. Their prey had been reduced to outlying void clusters and lost human colonies and they had not struck an active, tithe-paying Imperial holding for many years.

I can confirm that 40K Wiki information as it's taken from the Outer Dark Carcharodons novel. They have enough power that a single company fleet considered them dangerous and wouldn't have been able to fight them and survive or brute-force the negotiations, but that's to be expected as a single company can't overwhelm even a damaged or starving chapter which likely has hundreds of Marines and several ships.

I don't get why they aren't Legion size or much bigger. Do they face a lot of Xeno threats that reduces their numbers greatly? Difficulty producing new geneseed?

 

Lufght Huron had 5k Marines at the start of the Badab War

[No Foes Remain]

Huron did not have 5,000 marines, Imperial elements estimate a size from 2,000 - 3,500.

[MajorNese]

I don't get why they aren't Legion size or much bigger. Do they face a lot of Xeno threats that reduces their numbers greatly? Difficulty producing new geneseed?

Why should they have such insane (legion) numbers?

 

Astartes in general rely on their holdings to provide them with the resources they need to operate at all, since all Astartes can do is fight and repair/build wargear in limited capacity. Shipyards to build ships, forge worlds to provide wargear, agri worlds for food, and several recruitment worlds for recruits. And in case things go south, the wider Imperium to restock their geneseed/wargear/ships.

 

Sitting at the end of nowhere and refusing to strike at tithe targets (read: those too small and unworthy of even bureaucratic attention), recruiting from a few tribes (instead of hive worlds) and raiding a few outposts for ships/technology, a chapter can only scrape by. And the ships they scavenge won't be top of the line either, more salvaged wrecks, trade ships or smaller navy ships. And still they will face xenos/imperial/chaos/other threats, reducing their number/material again all the time.

 

Maybe you should read the Night Lords novels, those give a good impression how such isolated warbands scrape by and operate. And why Huron is not just a local warlord idling in a backwater system, but the lord of the most powerful chaos navy/forces/holdings outside of the warp.

 

As for Huron before the Badab war - his chapter was exceptionally well equipped, being part of the Maelstrom Warders, which were ordered to hold the entire zone around the Maelstrom and even lead crusades into it. A top-notch, semi-independent forge world in his books, several chapters supporting him, and withholding the tites of an entire (economically vital/active) sector to build his Tyrant's Legion. Which is still barely a twentieth of a real 30k legion, if we used the highest rumored count of 5.000 marines instead of the less embellished numbers.

Edited February 19, 2020 by MajorNese

[Closet Skeleton]

I don't get why they aren't Legion size or much bigger. Do they face a lot of Xeno threats that reduces their numbers greatly? Difficulty producing new geneseed?

It took the entire Great Crusade organisation structure to maintain multiple Legions, chapters aren't small merely because they have an arbitrary cap put on them, that cap was set at the number of space marines that could (in the completely made up internal logic of the setting) support themselves as a isolated unit.

 

Chapters are pathetically small based on what army sizes should look like in a galaxy spanning empire but in the internal logic of the 40k setting 1000 is a lot of Space Marines.

 

Renegade chapters are free from an arbitrary size limit, but many chapters like the Flesh Teareres are famous for not being able to meet even that arbitary 'low' number and being a rogue chapter is usually presented as leading to logistical issues rather than sudden population growth.

 

Space Wolves are free from the codex but are still just a extra big chapter, not their former legion self because that's how many space marines Fenris can maintain. The Black Templars are much bigger than a standard chapter not just because they ignore the codex but because they're spread out and have chapter keeps across the galaxy to supply them and the average Black Templar fleet is well under Chapter size.

Edited February 27, 2020 by Closet Skeleton

[Claws and Effect]

They're hurting in the 41st millennium.

 

Their big scary battleship is more bark than bite because they don't have the resources to equip it for any action longer than a short skirmish against a vessel it outclasses.

 

They also have problems maintaining geneseed levels for new recruits. It isn't specifically addressed, but I suspect that they have so few Apothecaries that they are viewed as too valuable to risk in combat, and thus a fallen brother equals geneseed that is lost. They're so desperate for fresh geneseed and equipment that they agree to help the Carcharodons in exchange for it.