What do you think is missing from CSM?

[Iron_Within]

So, Ronseal thread. What do you think is missing from CSM's at the moment? Now I don't mean rules wise, I mean the model, character range or lore. Rules has been done to death.

 

As an Iron Warriors player, I really hurt for the lack of a heavy gun toting character. Like a character Havoc or Obliterator. There would be so much a heavy weapon character could add to the CSM army that focuses on shooting over combat, even if it's just a souped up gun *cough* Kai Gun *cough*. 

 

On a similar note, the lack artillery engines hurts. 

 

In more general terms with all the great fluff on Daemon Engines coming out I'd love to see more, 

 

 

[Dagoth Ur]

1.) A proper Chosen Kit, first and foremost

 

2.) A character for each of the legions - it is ridiculous that loyalists can tote around half a dozen at a time while CSM can muster only one per Cult Legion, Fabius, Abby and Huron.

 

3.) Droppods and updated vehicle kits in general.

[MegaVolt87]

I would like to see the whirlwind rolled into the CSM dex, FW 40k rules for hellforged Medusa, Arcus, basilisk and new Arquitor series vehicles.Also all future 30k vehicle releases to have 40k rules as well. We could have PDF's of them for testing off GW site, then rules and points could go gold in that years CA or the next years one, depending on when they are released. 

[MegaVolt87]

In my mind, the perfect chosen kit would be a 5 man multi part kit with all unique sculpts, bolters, bolt pistols, x1 thunder hammer and x5 chain axes big enough to work with terminators, multi melta + heavy flamer, usual extras (pouches, holsters, grenades etc), so we can back port them to the other power armour CSM units as options in a new codex. This would fill several gaps in our range completely with such options. I expect it to be priced the same as the new havocs, because GW. 

[Marshal Loss]

SC's for each Legion is the big one and I expect GW to get around to this sooner or later. Some redoing of the classic upgrade sets as well, e.g. revamped Night Lord bat-wing helmets, would be nice.

 

New Possessed would also be a really big deal for us; I'd much prefer them to a Chosen kit in a universe where we could only choose one. In my mind Chosen can already be represented by savvy converters & Possessed are the Chaos unit, something that loyalists have no use of replicating.

 

Add to that list a revamped Defiler. It is the OG Daemon Engine, emblematic of our faction, but it looks very dated.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Missing models...

 

1. Updated kits for Zerkers

 

2. A Chosen kit.

 

3. Updated kits for chaos lords, exalted champions.

 

4.  Defilers.  God this kit sucks :(

 

5. Noise Marines

[infyrana]

Zerkers that look as good as the new Death Guard models and sporting a good solid selection of melee weapons like chain axes and flails etc etc.

[Cheex]

Updated old kits are a given, enough people have mentioned it that I won't go into it.

 

New weapon options that aren't just looted/ancient Imperial weapons. I want warp-infused tech that is powerful but dangerous to use. Or weapons that are low-tech and post-apocalyptic in style, to show CSMs as the reaving pirates they tend to be.

 

More new daemon engines. Many years ago we saw some daemon engine concept art (from FW?) do the rounds but little came of them, so I'd like to see more interesting engines.

 

Drop pods, aircraft, new transport options. Let's see new ways for CSMs to get around that don't involve the humble old Rhino chassis.

[CMDR_Welles]

My wish is to get new rules to better represent the Helbrute... Current model is saddled with the old Chaos Dreadnought rules. 

Now that it shares aesthetics with the new Obliterators, it needs rules to match. Really, it just needs the Daemon keyword and the 5++ Daemonic save.

 

Multipart Cultists

 

Chosen

 

Possessed (that kit is way old)

[Khornestar]

Lord on Juggernaut designed for the current game environment. Scary, instead of pathetic. My one real gripe with this edition... ugh.

[Leif Bearclaw]

Not sure if it's a bit too 'rules-y' but we really need Codexes for WE and EC. Bring them up to at least approximate parity with 1kSons and DG. This would also mean more models/lore for the remaining 2 cult legions I guess...

[Jings]

4. Defilers. God this kit sucks :(

 

I'd love an update for it, but the kit is fine imo. Had a lot more fun putting it together than I did my Disco Lord. I fear a new one would be just as overly complicated, fiddly and monopose as the Disco.

 

Chosen would be nice, but honestly what's missing most is the +1 Wound and Attack for Marine infantry. Primaries are basically Marines how they were always meant to be and the disparity between them and Chaos Marines really puts me off fielding them and I don't think I'm the only one. I'd happily pay an extra 4 points per dude for just those stat improvement.

 

Next codex maybe.

[Snazzy]

Zerkers that look as good as the new Death Guard models and sporting a good solid selection of melee weapons like chain axes and flails etc etc.

 

Yes.  Amazing how dated these models are.

 

We need more chainaxe bits.  It is one of the quintessential CSM weapons, and there are not enough parts.

 

New, better looking Havok Launcher.

 

More characters, especially for the Undivided legions.

 

A Land Raider variant.

[Doom Herald]

Most of my personal grievances are around characters.

 

1) All Legions should have a specialized generic character option. AL=Sniper, WB=Dark Apostle (lore long held they were the only legion with them), IW=Warsmith.

 

2) Older and Legends options for characters. IE: Terminator or Jump options for all Power Armor generic characters, mounts for the same characters.

 

3) Multi-part (non terminator) kits. This really isn't that hard. If not such a kit, a power armor character kit that you could more easily use arms from a Chosen Kit (another thing missing) for wargear.

 

As for other units:

 

1) I HATE the new Raptor kits. The Jump packs look terrible compared to the previous ones, I miss the bird-like features and the shape of the previous helmets. Also, the jump packs never fit right.

 

2) Chosen Kits need to be a thing. By lore, they are supposed to be visually larger. In fact, the only chosen models I'm aware of are the DV models, which are about (maybe slightly smaller than) the size of new scale CSM. Since multi-part character kids seem to be being choked out by GW, this would be a great way to add character wargear options as well. We dont even have a Thunderhammer that isn't attached to Obsidius.

 

3) Updated Noise Marines/Berzerkers

 

4) God-specific icons instead of this terrible, barely noticeable new one.

 

5) We need added rules for <MARK OF CHAOS> detachments. I should be able to run Khorne (or any other god) Daemonkin as one dettachment.

 

6) Lowest-point wargear should be considered baseline and a kit should have enough to make all of them. IE: Terminators and Chain-axes.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Doom Herald

[Lucerne]

Rules and options? More divergent options like the reaper chaincannon to show they're not just "loyalists but worse", as well as obvious carryovers from the Heresy like the Terminator armor variants which any random loyalist can bring but not the actual Heresy-era vets.

 

Even stuff like "warp-bolters"/kaiguns.

 

I can understand why CSM would be screwed on stalker bolters but the lack of Heresy tech is unforgivable.

 

Also, 2W elite mooks. There's no reason beyond loyalist favoritism for the absence of that as an option.

 

Model-wise, the rest of the cult Legions. Renegade guardsmen/cultist options. Vehicles that aren't dinobots.

 

The dreadclaw frankly should have been made plastic years ago.

 

Chosen would be nice but honestly I've given up on GW ever providing something like that in a reasonable timeframe.

 

Now, if we're talking specific Legions, I'd argue the Alpha Legion is impossible to lore-accurately play using GW's CSM rules, and it's frankly bonkers that the GSC "steal some guard units" doesn't apply to traitors as an option. Similarly, generic renegades and red corsairs should be able to poach at least some more of the loyalist vehicle pool.

 

There desperately needs to be worldbuilding for the Legions at least on par with the various chapter supplements, especially with the current timeline. A lot of low-information players seem to think the Legions are just this homogenous blob of Black Legion/Word Bearer knockoffs, and frankly a few more examples and story hooks would at least crowbar the idea that "maybe the traitor marines aren't so homogenous" into the fandom's collective understanding.

 

There's a nice Night Lords plotline with Ulthwé that was never followed up on. How Huron's forces lost the Macragge's honor was never elaborated on. We barely have any idea what the current organization of Perturabo's Iron Warriors is. We don't even know the identities of most of the senior CSM, or anything about them, above and beyond leaving room for "your dudes". This is neglect plain and simple.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lucerne

[MegaVolt87]

Tarantula turrets with spider legs that can walk around and work like the gun servitors tech marines have would be a neat option for warpsmith. 

[Lucerne]

Tarantula turrets with spider legs that can walk around and work like the gun servitors tech marines have would be a neat option for warpsmith. 

Or, you know, plastic tarantulas at all, I'm less fussy :p

[Iron Father Ferrum]

A lot of low-information players seem to think the Legions are just this homogenous blob of Black Legion/Word Bearer knockoffs, and frankly a few more examples and story hooks would at least crowbar the idea that "maybe the traitor marines aren't so homogenous" into the fandom's collective understanding.

 

Subtle barb isn't so subtle. So far as I'm concerned there's plenty of lore showing the unaligned Legions and their corruption. Like in McNeill's Iron Warrior series that shows that Legion fractured into warring groups fighting eternal sieges against each other on Medrengard and using daemonic tech to clone-breed new Astartes. Or ADB's Night Lord Trilogy that shows them as jumped-up pirates that have a Daemon Prince and a Berzerker.

[Ghorgul]

As for other units:

 

1) I HATE the new Raptor kits. The Jump packs look terrible compared to the previous ones, I miss the bird-like features and the shape of the previous helmets. Also, the jump packs never fit right.

I have been wondering for some time now why did they have to 're-do' the raptors. The old 3rd/4th Ed. models were pretty much perfect and kind of fresh, unique and most of all chaotic looking. Really distinct compared to anything else, and clearly different from normal space marines. New ones look just meh, and big minus for the weird spikes growing in the jump pack.

[Rune Priest Ridcully]

Some kind of transport? or even more daemonic heavy supports.

[Lucerne]

 

A lot of low-information players seem to think the Legions are just this homogenous blob of Black Legion/Word Bearer knockoffs, and frankly a few more examples and story hooks would at least crowbar the idea that "maybe the traitor marines aren't so homogenous" into the fandom's collective understanding.

Subtle barb isn't so subtle. So far as I'm concerned there's plenty of lore showing the unaligned Legions and their corruption. Like in McNeill's Iron Warrior series that shows that Legion fractured into warring groups fighting eternal sieges against each other on Medrengard and using daemonic tech to clone-breed new Astartes. Or ADB's Night Lord Trilogy that shows them as jumped-up pirates that have a Daemon Prince and a Berzerker.

 

"fractured"- and yet we have consistent chains of command that lead to tithes being sent to Medrengard (Never mind how Perturabo's taken personal command in more recent lore), said use of daemonic cloning tech being a notable divergence from business as usual to the point the Ultramarines chief librarian has nightmares about it, and the Night Lord trilogy that ends with them being relatively unified under Talos 2.0...and said possessed and berserker both very much dead.

 

Your failure of imagination and attempt to pigeonhole the CSM into the blandest sort of generic stereotype is your own problem but it'd be nice if the writers tried to salvage other members of the fanbase that buy into your sort of memes.

 

 

 

As for other units:

 

1) I HATE the new Raptor kits. The Jump packs look terrible compared to the previous ones, I miss the bird-like features and the shape of the previous helmets. Also, the jump packs never fit right.

I have been wondering for some time now why did they have to 're-do' the raptors. The old 3rd/4th Ed. models were pretty much perfect and kind of fresh, unique and most of all chaotic looking. Really distinct compared to anything else, and clearly different from normal space marines. New ones look just meh, and big minus for the weird spikes growing in the jump pack.

 

Yeah, but I don't think we'll see old raptors ever again. Best we can hope for now is some sort of kit that has similar looking feet so we can kitbash similar styles ourselves.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lucerne

[Paturabo]

Multi-part dedicated 5 man Chosen kit, modeled holding the bolters/combi-weapons with one hand so their off-hand can be holding a melee weapon. Parts to build at least e of each combi-weapon. Similar to the terminator kit, one each of: chainaxe, power sword, power axe, power maul, power fist, thunder hammer. A pair of lightning claws and a couple of chainswords to round off melee options.

 

Even stuff like "warp-bolters"

 

While we're at it the warp-bolter should replace the boltgun as the Chosen's primary weapon. Aside from helping to close the gap between CSM and primaris, I would love to see how these would be modeled (aside from the metal daemon prince with a barrel sticking out of his arm). Also warp-bolters would help differentiate CSM from loyalist Marines by reflecting the taint our time in the warp left on some of our weapons.

[Lucerne]

Multi-part dedicated 5 man Chosen kit, modeled holding the bolters/combi-weapons with one hand so their off-hand can be holding a melee weapon. Parts to build at least e of each combi-weapon. Similar to the terminator kit, one each of: chainaxe, power sword, power axe, power maul, power fist, thunder hammer. A pair of lightning claws and a couple of chainswords to round off melee options.

 

Even stuff like "warp-bolters"

While we're at it the warp-bolter should replace the boltgun as the Chosen's primary weapon. Aside from helping to close the gap between CSM and primaris, I would love to see how these would be modeled (aside from the metal daemon prince with a barrel sticking out of his arm). Also warp-bolters would help differentiate CSM from loyalist Marines by reflecting the taint our time in the warp left on some of our weapons.

 

At the least, it'd be nice to have specialized ammunition, or old-school trimmed "non-STC"  weaponry with different visuals, or at the least a bolt rifle equivalent?

 

I mean look at this guy

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/eaqiOzGNlC8rBRyDKQqGNjVA9y98YRSXhhts5HRwe4LZkRQ7C0OmUKTRdXbP36HCmze7Q3Cfueh2fyNvTKDThHyzBI20PEDI5Uf0iOREiPVmGw

 

We still don't have a CSM combi-weapon design for power armoured marines and that's a shame. Similarly, it'd be nice to have a bit more of the old-school "trim and archaic armour" look back rather than daemons all the time- there's a time and place for that sort of gimmick but honestly, I think we need the pendulum to swing back towards forbidden tech and relic wargear for a few releases- more hell talons and fewer heldrakes, if you get my gist.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Lucerne

[slitth]

My wish is to get new rules to better represent the Helbrute... Current model is saddled with the old Chaos Dreadnought rules. 

 

Now that it shares aesthetics with the new Obliterators, it needs rules to match. Really, it just needs the Daemon keyword and the 5++ Daemonic save.

 

Multipart Cultists

 

Chosen

 

Possessed (that kit is way old)

Cultist could be done as a Necromunda gang. That way GW can sell the box set for 2 games

[MegaVolt87]

We had the Kai Gun in 3.5 as a warp bolter. Could be a bolter upgrade on chosen from standard, though I do like my standard issue bolter, it really just needs AP -1 on it to fix it.