To Magnus, or not to Magnus.

[Agerjag]

It sounds like you havent played this matchup alot before. Im sure there are some things that you would adjust as you got more knowledge of how they worked. I havent fought them yet this edition so can't offer you super sound advice. I would just think about each problem piece and how I could mitigate/destroy/avoid it and what unit/comp would work for that. How to make mortal wounds more effective and so on. Over multiple iterations and attempts you should be able to improve.

[Prot]

Well more accurately I haven’t played this matchup recently.  Unfortunately I lost the pictures but the table was upper moderate terrain. My opponent loves his Nids.  They’ve just typically shown up as GSC in 8 th. 
 

I think this matchup just greatly exposed the inflexibility of the list, and maybe to a lesser degree the codex. I still think Magic is king, and the utility of Duplicity is really hard to compete without. When I take out Magnus, I seem to focus  on cool units that probably don’t help as much. For me that’s typically my dreadnought collection.... Butcher Decimator, twin las Contemptor, etc. 

[Prot]

Time for a minor update.

 

I had some rough games pulling Magnus out. Once again my fail/pass ratio goes down immensely without him and those 'disaster' turns where you fail just about everything and can therefore lose the game happen far less with Magnus in the list.

 

I put him back in with a cult of Magic, and Time army. I did not miss Duplicity and I played a tough, anti infantry based Necron army. He had two of those Annihilation Barges which can ... annihilate Magnus.

 

Luckily without first turn, I dodged one of his Barges by deploying deep in my zone, behind a line of buildings. Magnus survives turn 1 and I'm super dodgy with yo-yo'ing him through my lines.

 

What won me this game is the amount Magnus happen to absorb. The game was actually quite close, but I think I had probablyl 4-5 super smites go off accross the board, and one turn of double firing my Scarab Occult which made a huge difference.

 

It truly feels like gambling using the big man, but I just can't seem to get traction in the army without him. I want to be psychic heavy but the extra points from dropping Magnus seem to be best used on non-psychic units which rarely pay off for me. IE: Taking out Magnus and adding 2-3 shooty units (which help replace his lack of smite against hard targets). Decimators, Dual Las Contemptors... they really don't seem to work for me.

[Charybdis]

I'm just considering whether to buy Magnus or not, line of sight wise the big man seem's like an absolute nightmare to hide.

 

I actually prefer the slinkier 30K model, is it considered an absolute faux pas to proxy 30K's lean n mean Magnus for 40K's I like steroids demon Primarch? 

 

It would be for casual games, but I don't want to offend anyone if it's considered cheating. 

[Archaeinox]

I'm not sure if the 30k Magnus is appropriate to represent the 40k one based on Line of Sight considerations but that's really it and depends on who you play against.

[Charybdis]

I'm not sure if the 30k Magnus is appropriate to represent the 40k one based on Line of Sight considerations but that's really it and depends on who you play against.

Shame, aesthetically I think the 30K model looks glorious

[Charybdis]

The new Ghazghkull model comes with a rule 'Prophet of Gork n Mork' whereby he can only lose a maximum of 4 wounds per phase.

 

Obviously any faction would want this for their HQ, but given the sheer impossibility of ever getting big red out of LoS I think it would be justified in GW giving something similar to Magnus.

 

Or would this perhaps make him OP?

[Skerr]

Folks would sink heal spells and strats potentially healing a good bit of that every round so probably not. I wouldn't turn it down though.

[Archaeinox]

I don't expect we'll see any changes to datasheets or anything like that til there's a huge edition shift. It would have to be such a massive change, like 7th to 8th, to affect Magnus unless they cherry pick what to change about each datasheet via a faq and that would be a mess.

[Prot]

The new Ghazghkull model comes with a rule 'Prophet of Gork n Mork' whereby he can only lose a maximum of 4 wounds per phase.

 

Obviously any faction would want this for their HQ, but given the sheer impossibility of ever getting big red out of LoS I think it would be justified in GW giving something similar to Magnus.

 

Or would this perhaps make him OP?

 

I think where this rule comes from is two fold: 1. The game can take down just about anything in T1 that is targetable. The difference in that saying that now vs. the dawn of 8th edition is night and day. 2. Ghaz doesn't have the speed, or mechanisms to protect him. He's mainly a close combat dude, and even with his special rule, I'm seeing him in Deep strike these days more than anything.

 

With Magnus you have this big model, and maybe his isn't appropriately pointed anymore. But the other side of that conversation is Magnus will hit you with dozens of mortal wounds throughout a game, ignoring saves, etc. Then when he reaches you he can butcher a lot of stuff. Of course without first turn it can be different, but at the same time going first means Magnus has (typically) a 3+ invuln, and -1 to hit, and is probably moving twice per turn.

[Charybdis]

What is the view on kit bashing Magnus?

 

I can deal with his height, but those bloody wings are just a liability and also a bit of a pain to transport. If I could kit bash some wings that where say tucked in closer to his body, would that be considered cheating? 

 

I'm guessing gigantors size is all part of balancing him out so probably is cheating. 

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

It would definitely be cheating.

[Prot]

What is the view on kit bashing Magnus?

 

I can deal with his height, but those bloody wings are just a liability and also a bit of a pain to transport. If I could kit bash some wings that where say tucked in closer to his body, would that be considered cheating? 

 

I'm guessing gigantors size is all part of balancing him out so probably is cheating. 

 

The wings are a pain, but if you have the model you know you can actually detach the wings and place them in their joints on his back when needed. 

 

I have had a few Magnus models and at first that's how I used him for transport. If you are playing competitively, you need to have him accurately played in his proper dimensions. If you are playing with a friend, you'd still have to be fairly generous when it comes to targeting.

 

Let me put it like this... I think in my last 3 games I've had one situation where Magnus could not be targeted.

 

If transport is an issue (it always is with the daemon primarchs) you can consider the detachable wing option, or get some laser cut foam. That's eventually what I did. Right now I believe there might still be a deal on from Battlefoam.com but that's where I got my Magnus foam because it fits the the body perfectly. You don't have to go this route but it is probably the safest way of transporting him other than creating a similar mechanism yourself.

 

As far as using him I would say if you really want to change the wings, then you pretty much have to concede to your opponent that he can always target him with just about anything he wants to shoot at him.

[Charybdis]

 

What is the view on kit bashing Magnus?

 

I can deal with his height, but those bloody wings are just a liability and also a bit of a pain to transport. If I could kit bash some wings that where say tucked in closer to his body, would that be considered cheating? 

 

I'm guessing gigantors size is all part of balancing him out so probably is cheating. 

 

The wings are a pain, but if you have the model you know you can actually detach the wings and place them in their joints on his back when needed. 

 

I have had a few Magnus models and at first that's how I used him for transport. If you are playing competitively, you need to have him accurately played in his proper dimensions. If you are playing with a friend, you'd still have to be fairly generous when it comes to targeting.

 

Let me put it like this... I think in my last 3 games I've had one situation where Magnus could not be targeted.

 

If transport is an issue (it always is with the daemon primarchs) you can consider the detachable wing option, or get some laser cut foam. That's eventually what I did. Right now I believe there might still be a deal on from Battlefoam.com but that's where I got my Magnus foam because it fits the the body perfectly. You don't have to go this route but it is probably the safest way of transporting him other than creating a similar mechanism yourself.

 

As far as using him I would say if you really want to change the wings, then you pretty much have to concede to your opponent that he can always target him with just about anything he wants to shoot at him.

 

To be honest while I love the character, aesthetically I'm not the biggest fan of the Demon Primarch model.

 

The group that I play with are quite narrative driven and I'm toying with the idea of creating a Thousand Sons that have broken away from Tzeentch for all the manipulations (I'm slightly surprised Magnus and co don't have a bit more of a grudge about this.) the Rubric was deliberately planned as a way to keep half the Sons protected (I've recently read that Rubric's killed in battle can be resurrected?) whilst the others get a handy power up for surviving in the 40K universe. 

Magnus was never going to kill Ahriman it was simply a ploy so Magnus's favourite son could start searching for a way out for them all out from underneath Tzeentch's nose.

 

Rule wise I'd like to keep the Sons as they are, drop the demon models and just proxy them with some appropriately Egyption/Prospero looking entities rather than chaotic. Perhaps rely more on vehicles and squads of Rubrics based on the Heresy era looks before they where changed.

 

For Tzaangors I'm considering using Karic Acolytes from Sigmar and using them as followers of the Son's as they carve out their own sector of the galaxy dedicated to the Sons ideals of human enlightement.

 

I think I can manage this.

 

I'd love to have Magnus restored to his 30k model glory leading Prospero's finest against both Chaos and the Imperium into the 41st millenium, but obviously the smaller size would make him tad too over powered.

The group I play with are very chilled, but I want to try and create a new balanced army that's fun to play against. 

 

Would it be possible to adapt Magnus's 30K rule set for the 40K game? Would this make him more balanced? 

 

Apologies in advance if these questions aren't appropriate to the thread. 

[Ulfast]

I´m in the progress to start up my Thousands sons again and Magnus is on my to buy list. Anyone got any new and intersting ways to use him?

[Skerr]

Hey everyone, work has been a bear the last 3 months and I have been silent but no more. Excited for 9th!!

 

I know we only know bits and pieces though I watched the Canhammer podcast last night with a guest who play tested 9th and seemed to allude that bigger models will be able to hide behind terrain not as tall as the model.

 

If true this bodes well for the Crimson King to not get blown off the board Turn 1. It was late when I watched but anyone else hear this?

[WarriorFish]

Not as far as I'm aware, but this depends entirely on what he means by bigger models and that. There's a bigger model, and then there's a bigger model with 18+ wounds was it for rules purposes... From the rules bits we got from GW it very much sounds like if you're the latter you'll not be hiding any time soon. The new terrain rules seem expansive shall we say by comparison so there's going to be a lot to digest but I'm pretty sure that with regards to Magnus and his peers we know the full story

[Dolchiate Remembrancer]

Maybe but the new reserve rules help fielding magnus a lot!

[WarriorFish]

Yeah, they are a rather nice addition - not cheap in Command Points but I'd wager most will agree worth the price to save Magnus from a Turn 1 drubbing? Not great that your hand is forced somewhat, but better than nothing.

[Skerr]

How timely, I just saw the new strategic reserves article. Does this mean Mags can walk into enemy deployment midgame with a "Smite to Meet You"? (Can't take credit for that) granted thats a couple turns he is not on the table.

[WarriorFish]

You have to be wholly within 6" of the table edge and outside of 9" of an enemy model so there are restrictions. A savvy opponent could reduce available spots as the game goes on but on the other hand you're mostly after keeping Magnus safe from opening fire and will of course be weaving your own plans in response. Plus if he's trying to wrap up table edges I'm sure this would still put some units close enough for a greeting :P

 

As ever we don't know the full picture, or if there are further specifics such as if there's a turn limit to when you can do this (from the sounds of it seems not - just the end of the battle) but overall this seems like a nice addition that gives some more tactical depth. Should change the nature of getting first turn quite a bit will be very interesting to see how this pans out once everyone starts getting games under their belt.