Dumb to buy non-Primaris?

[Captain Idaho]

No. We are years and years away from them being writtem out of the rules. Ignore the neckbeard nerdrage paranoia

=][= This is the sole warning in this thread - do not troll or insult others for sharing an opinion you don't agree. It is against the rules to do such things so I suggest checking up on them if you're unfamiliar. =][=

[jeremy1391]

There is still quite a few uses for old marines.

 

Most notably centurions and thunderfire cannons and scouts.

[Lord_Caerolion]

With the Horus Heresy still being marketed so heavily, I just can't see GW ever getting rid of Firstborn Marines entirely. I could absolutely see them being 'removed' from 40,000 and rebranded as Heresy-era only, maybe even seeing GW releasing their own Badab War expansion, stuff like that. They'll always be around in one form or another though.

[War Angel]

All of them are still useful, GW has specifically designed Primaris Marines to not invalidate firstborn Marines for this reason.

[MegaVolt87]

My biggest issue with the primaris is the lack of Aquilla's on the armour. I would have preferred Aquila chests and the winged skull on the guns. I bought an intercessor box, hellblasters and 2 HQ's, though that has been since dead in the water. The excitement just isn't there for me to build or paint them up, compared to old marines. I switched to doing custodes and am much happier with those mini's for a loyalist army. Also I think it doesn't help primaris case, the HH lore feels more epic in comparison. Its going to take years for primaris lore to catch up/ exceed it to make people like me more invested. I can't fault the rules for them though. I am waiting on melee, gravis and more armoured options for primaris myself to show up. 

 

Primaris are definitely the future, though they need more that interests me to buy into that future. 

[War Angel]

My biggest issue with the primaris is the lack of Aquilla's on the armour. I would have preferred Aquila chests and the winged skull on the guns. I bought an intercessor box, hellblasters and 2 HQ's, though that has been since dead in the water. The excitement just isn't there for me to build or paint them up, compared to old marines. I switched to doing custodes and am much happier with those mini's for a loyalist army. Also I think it doesn't help primaris case, the HH lore feels more epic in comparison. Its going to take years for primaris lore to catch up/ exceed it to make people like me more invested. I can't fault the rules for them though. I am waiting on melee, gravis and more armoured options for primaris myself to show up. 

 

Primaris are definitely the future, though they need more that interests me to buy into that future.

 

File those bad boys down and put an Aquila on it yourself. You can do it, I believe in you!

[Lord_Caerolion]

Also I think it doesn't help primaris case, the HH lore feels more epic in comparison. Its going to take years for primaris lore to catch up/ exceed it to make people like me more invested.

 

Personally, I'm just taking inspiration from Spears of the Emperor, and my Primaris Chapter is located deep within Imperium Nihilus, with Death Guard invaders knocking at the door, and Drukhari/Ork raiders stopping by regularly as well. All up, they're pretty screwed when you look at it objectively. Sure, we don't have any Primarchs, or massive Legion-strength battles of mutual annihilation, but we're locked permanently into Heroic Last Stand, every victory a blessing from the Emperor Himself. The Chapter may die, but damn if we're not going to make the foes of the Emperor bleed for it first.

[Gederas]

Also I think it doesn't help primaris case, the HH lore feels more epic in comparison. Its going to take years for primaris lore to catch up/ exceed it to make people like me more invested.

Personally, I'm just taking inspiration from Spears of the Emperor, and my Primaris Chapter is located deep within Imperium Nihilus, with Death Guard invaders knocking at the door, and Drukhari/Ork raiders stopping by regularly as well. All up, they're pretty screwed when you look at it objectively. Sure, we don't have any Primarchs, or massive Legion-strength battles of mutual annihilation, but we're locked permanently into Heroic Last Stand, every victory a blessing from the Emperor Himself. The Chapter may die, but damn if we're not going to make the foes of the Emperor bleed for it first.

So..... Exactly the same as how it's always been, just with larger marines? :lol: ;)

[Lord_Caerolion]

Pretty much, it's just a lot more blatant now, rather than the previous general take-away from the fluff being "where Marines are, the Imperium can't lose".

[UnkyHamHam]

It's only a matter of time before the First born are cool again and come back.

 

Once the game is saturated with cookie cutter Primaris armies, there will be a strong hobby urge to convert "old school" marines.

 

GW will inevitably try to capitalize on the surge of marine hipsters, just like Horus Heresy did, by dropping some sort of "Legends" range of old marines.

 

I bet you all it will begin with a sufficiently grimdark and rescaled (think Japanese heroes) Tac squad to add to your Primaris Ultima Chapter.

 

In 5 years we'll be having retro conversion discussions haha

Edited February 24, 2020 by UnkyHamHam

[Token]

Ill probably buy some Primaris then. Perhaps wait to see what comes out. There is a rumor of Primaris bikes, right? That would probably be better then old bikes, same role, just beefier and with a stronger punch.

The "old" flyers should be good going forward, but for how long? The Raven only transports old marines, so it should be replaced.

The Agressors seems to have a similiar role as Terminators, being both shooty and punchy, and quite tough, but with no teleporting, not able to fill that role completely.

On Another note, do marines still "start out" as Scouts? Or will that be/have been replaced by something else, fluff wise?

Edited February 24, 2020 by Token

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

Gaius Pollandus was a scout until his body accepted all his organs so yes.

[Snazzy]

It is hard to imagine GW would invalidate their largest, most widely produced collection, unless the point was hurt the influence of the secondary market.  For now, i don't see it.  Your basic Bolter Marine, the single most produced model in 40k is, from a rules perspective, better than at any other time since 2nd edition.  That doesn't strike me as an accident.  It would also be strange to retain all of the classic marine vehicles that have come out in the last decade while writing out classic scale marines.

[mertbl]

I'll play them until they get legended,and then I'll move on to heresy with them.

[infyrana]

I'll be converting what I can to 30k Heresy models (still trying to get my head around doing my beakies into Raven Guard!), those that don't will either be for my DW or await their future.  I'm hoping that (though can't see any of this wishlist happening) "IF" they push Primaris to be the only 40k 'space marines' and legend out all the old stuff, they will either open up 30k with the Siege of Terra to Mk7 armour and equipment (yes I know, heresy!!), add in a new 'specialist era' such as 30k-40k-Badab War (or combine with 30k), or they consolidate what's left of all of the non-primaris marines into a few Chapters or a single Legion within the lore so people can use their old/existing armies still.  Any of which would give an outlet to people with old and large existing collections to maintain their connection with 40k.

 

I know excess stock of outdated or unused equipment from conflict around the world can often be left in warehouses until a use/buyer is found, I can't really see 10k+ years worth of creating, maintaining and using fully workable super soldiers and equipment as just vanishing from lore across all those planets so readily.  Whether used by planet local rebels or stolen by Chaos, that stuff is still fully functional if you can fit into the armour/driving seat.

 

In answer to the question in the title, I don't think it's dumb to buy non-primaris, but I would definitely have in mind what could happen to your investment.  For me, though I got caught up buying Deathwatch marines which thankfully are still relatively new in the grand timescale, I'm pleased that they are a rather elite army and the few models could easily be used in Kill Team for some time to come as a specialist game.

[War Angel]

I just had a thought about this whole primaris and firstborn issue, though it's not about buying their models per se;

One of the many causes for the Horus Heresy was that the marines felt like they MAY no longer have a place in the Imperium, once the galaxy is conquered.

What could they feel when they know for a certain fact, they are DEFINITELY obsolete, and in the process of being replaced with a newer breed; Essentially treated like an outdated weapon being switched out for a newer model?

Sure, some of the firstborn get the upgrade, but it's a risky and expensive procedure that likely won't even be offered to the rank-and-file, and that's before they could think about whether they'll survive it or not.

Could the next civil war be on the horizon?

 

OT, but it won’t matter as they are still valuable to the imperium until they are dead.

[Snazzy]

I just had a thought about this whole primaris and firstborn issue, though it's not about buying their models per se;

 

One of the many causes for the Horus Heresy was that the marines felt like they MAY no longer have a place in the Imperium, once the galaxy is conquered.

 

What could they feel when they know for a certain fact, they are DEFINITELY obsolete, and in the process of being replaced with a newer breed; Essentially treated like an outdated weapon being switched out for a newer model?

 

Sure, some of the firstborn get the upgrade, but it's a risky and expensive procedure that likely won't even be offered to the rank-and-file, and that's before they could think about whether they'll survive it or not.

 

Could the next civil war be on the horizon?

 

Did they ever articulate how the Primaris geneseed is cultivated?  the standard gene seed harvesting process was one of the major barriers to a chapters recovery after major losses.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Same way as other geneseed, once a Marine has it implanted the progenoid glands start absorbing their genetic data to create new zygotes for cultivation.

[Dracos]

Firstborn = Thunder Warriors

[Captain Idaho]

It is hard to imagine GW would invalidate their largest, most widely produced collection, unless the point was hurt the influence of the secondary market.  For now, i don't see it.  Your basic Bolter Marine, the single most produced model in 40k is, from a rules perspective, better than at any other time since 2nd edition.  That doesn't strike me as an accident.  It would also be strange to retain all of the classic marine vehicles that have come out in the last decade while writing out classic scale marines.

Whilst I agree Classic Marines are fairly competitive (certainly more so than their "little" brothers, with some exceptions) I think that is immaterial to whether Classic Marines are getting phased out.

 

They aren't getting new kits. That's truth of them. They will likely never see a new kit ever again, with GW making new versions of existing models using the Primaris line as their guide.

 

Market wise, why would they do this? Protection of their I.P. is my guess. Executives who care not for the lore have pressed for this, which is why the Primaris line exists and doesn't fit into the existing lore cleanly (no more stagnation, gothic feels etc).

 

It's a slower phase out sure, probably because folk would go nuts, but it's happening each year more and more. That's why Legends has been created, to appease folk.

[War Angel]

Firstborn = Thunder Warriors

Thunder warriors = Thunder warriors

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

It is hard to imagine GW would invalidate their largest, most widely produced collection, unless the point was hurt the influence of the secondary market.  For now, i don't see it.  Your basic Bolter Marine, the single most produced model in 40k is, from a rules perspective, better than at any other time since 2nd edition.  That doesn't strike me as an accident.  It would also be strange to retain all of the classic marine vehicles that have come out in the last decade while writing out classic scale marines.

Whilst I agree Classic Marines are fairly competitive (certainly more so than their "little" brothers, with some exceptions) I think that is immaterial to whether Classic Marines are getting phased out.

 

They aren't getting new kits. That's truth of them. They will likely never see a new kit ever again, with GW making new versions of existing models using the Primaris line as their guide.

 

Market wise, why would they do this? Protection of their I.P. is my guess. Executives who care not for the lore have pressed for this, which is why the Primaris line exists and doesn't fit into the existing lore cleanly (no more stagnation, gothic feels etc).

 

It's a slower phase out sure, probably because folk would go nuts, but it's happening each year more and more. That's why Legends has been created, to appease folk.

 

 

Except, again, for the Horus Heresy stuff, which is continuing to see new Firstborn Chapter-specific units released.

[Captain Idaho]

Horus Heresy is a different game reliant on resin miniatures for much of the range. It has little to no bearing on 40K.

[Marshal Rohr]

Any plastic old marines kit for Heresy is a plastic oldmarine kit for 40k

[Hymnblade]

 

It is hard to imagine GW would invalidate their largest, most widely produced collection, unless the point was hurt the influence of the secondary market.  For now, i don't see it.  Your basic Bolter Marine, the single most produced model in 40k is, from a rules perspective, better than at any other time since 2nd edition.  That doesn't strike me as an accident.  It would also be strange to retain all of the classic marine vehicles that have come out in the last decade while writing out classic scale marines.

Whilst I agree Classic Marines are fairly competitive (certainly more so than their "little" brothers, with some exceptions) I think that is immaterial to whether Classic Marines are getting phased out.

 

They aren't getting new kits. That's truth of them. They will likely never see a new kit ever again, with GW making new versions of existing models using the Primaris line as their guide.

 

Market wise, why would they do this? Protection of their I.P. is my guess. Executives who care not for the lore have pressed for this, which is why the Primaris line exists and doesn't fit into the existing lore cleanly (no more stagnation, gothic feels etc).

 

It's a slower phase out sure, probably because folk would go nuts, but it's happening each year more and more. That's why Legends has been created, to appease folk.

 

Honest question: what has been phased out so far? I know that the remaining Index-only options went to Legends recently, and to my knowledge, all those models were OOP before 8e anyway. But you describe it as happening "each year more and more", which doesn't mesh with that. Am I missing something?

 

I agree that there probably aren't going to be new non-Primaris kits going forward, but that's a different thing from non-Primaris getting phased out. Plenty of armies have kits that have been in production without updates for decades. Yet a fair number of people seem to believe that one implies the other, which again leaves me wondering if I'm missing something that connects them.