Using Mephiston properly

[VanDutch]

I’m struggling to use our Lord of Death properly. Because of Quickening and Wings I end up being too eager to send him off into combat. But sitting back seems pointless as he’s not a buffing character.

 

Can anyone give me some tips on how best to play him?

 

As a bit of context, I have transport that I can take him in and plenty of Phobos/intercessors/inceptors to hide him behind.

Edited February 22, 2020 by VanDutch

[Jolemai]

Does this help?

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/344124-unit-of-the-week-chief-librarian-mephiston/

 

:)

[VanDutch]

Thank you. I guess some of that is now OOD but a lot will still be useful. Edited February 22, 2020 by VanDutch

[Jolemai]

It was compiled before Primaris Mephiston arrived, so maybe. TBF I struggle to get the best out of Mephiston too.

[t-dog1996]

I find he works best as a deputy to a Librarian Dreadnought. The Librarian Dread is the one I send headlong into my opponent's army, whilst Mephiston moves up more slowly. When the Librarian Dread dies Mephiston can fill the gap.

[Morticon]

With the 3rd power, Mephy should be working in tandem with either a DC (Rage or Shield) or another squad that puts out a solid amount of attacks like a Vanguard/Sang.Guard (Rage).

 

 What may help you, in an almost psychological way, is to play Mephy like an old-school Independent Character like in pre-8th ed - so, move him as part of the bigger jump unit he's with. Pretend like he's a member of that squad.  If you play him this way, not only will you have character protection, you'll wind up being a little more conservative with his engagement and only engage what you can when it's the right time

[Majkhel]

With the 3rd power, Mephy should be working in tandem with either a DC (Rage or Shield) or another squad that puts out a solid amount of attacks like a Vanguard/Sang.Guard (Rage).

 

 What may help you, in an almost psychological way, is to play Mephy like an old-school Independent Character like in pre-8th ed - so, move him as part of the bigger jump unit he's with. Pretend like he's a member of that squad.  If you play him this way, not only will you have character protection, you'll wind up being a little more conservative with his engagement and only engage what you can when it's the right time

This is a very good advice!

I've been recently coming to similar conclusion. Mephy can solo many things on the table and theoretically has the tools to do it. The thing is, he really shouldn't. BA are about synergies, supporting elements and timing attacks right. Even Captain Smash fails from time to time and will fail more if not supported. Same goes for Mephiston.

With his lack of invulnerable save, he very much embodies the BA character in that he is fast, killy and does not like protracted combats. So we should choose his battles to maximise his chances, not hope that he will be a hero all the time. 

[Arkaniss]

I'm reminded of some advice I gave ages ago about Assassins, I shall attempt to repeat the relevant part! It's all too easy to imagine the carnage and destruction a potent model can dish out but it's possible to get caught up in the excitement and end up sending it to it's doom.

 

It's been touched on already but I shall type it out once more for importance: a single infantry model (even a tough one like Mephiston) is pretty squishy and it takes just a few dice rolls to get them perished. It's vital to shepard your model until the time is right to unleash them for hopefully maximum effect. However you do this is naturally up to you, your army build and opponent etc... so if you put him in a transport or run him up the board with supporting infantry or whatever - you just don't send him alone.

 

Mephiston charging an enemy unit on his own may even do well if the dice gods are with you, but sending him along with some Death Company (for example) increases his odds of survival - he can even buff them to make the supporting unit better. You're paying good points for Mephiston, you don't want to use him on his own like a fire and forget missile because you've seen a tempting target you can't resist. Always take a moment to think about where you're sending your characters off to and what could backfire. There may be a time and a place to fling Mephiston off on his own to save you the game of course, just as long as you've pondered the decision first

 

Fingers crossed I've got my message across Good luck!

[Indefragable]

Maybe it’s circumstance as much or more so than cunning, but I’ve found Mephy feeling shining as a cleanup crew.

 

I am known to play very fast and aggressive and in your face; I take a lot of casualties early on doing so but also tend to wreck face as well. My units almost all have jump packs or can infiltrate, so Mephy being a footslogger means he is consistently behind....and that is before my opponent denies him casting Wings (either with good dtw rolls or by using the World Eater/Black Templar/Iron Hands strategies). As a result, he is often a bit behind the rest of my forces. Where this has proven to actually be an advantage, however, is that it means he ends up countering the enemy’s counter-charge units or that he has his pick of the litter since enemy screens are eliminated or tied up. He also rarely eats overwatch. As such, he is able to hop in and finish off the unit Capt Smash left a few wounds on, jailbreak a friendly Troop unit, or selectively assassinate an enemy character that has Heroically Intervened the turn before.

 

His lack of a native invuln means he is not as straight forward to play with as Captain Smash. Never forget that he is a librarian first and just happens to perform like a Captain.

[Neuralshock]

It's my one fatal flaw in using meph is that I'll send him headlong into glorious single combat, only to forget I charged my Sanguinary Guard into a unit that would wipe them out when my opponent has CP for counter attack @___@"  I've done this more times that I care to admit and essentially throw away 145 points of beatstick for no return.

[Wassa]

I really hate that stratagem. It's not like theres a "aha, I will use this stratagem to shoot after one of your own units has shot" stratagem :(.

[Captain Caine 24th]

You know, the past few days I've really been thinking about Mephiston in an impulsor with a 5x man unit as part of a very aggressive list. Wasn't sure if to post this here or on the impulsor or mephiston page. But, here goes:

 

Rules don't allow charge T1, but they can, importantly, disembark. It seems the impulsor can transport 6 primaris infantry, T7 11 wounds. I like the 4 ++ invuln. I was thinking of 5x intercessors, maybe auto bolt rifles to clear screens, and maybe a thunder hammer for extra threat. No intent on I don't have an impulsor so it's just a hypothesis at the moment. Also, I don't know yet what it'd look like if I go second...

 

• Pos: The Impulsor is reasonably tough. Won't last forever though. Pop smoke? 
• Pos: changes a troop unit from just objective holder, to a threat, and support at the front lines. Tactical flexibility.
• Pos: The Impulsor, and squad can assist in soaking-up overwatch (actually i wonder if you could put reivers in it to get those shock grenades... probably wouldn't get the range though).
• Pos: Mephiston can help other units: unleash rage has a good buff/bonus range, among other things. Death company/sanguinary guard would Upon Wings of Fire accross the board, to get within 12" of mephiston and just outside of 9" of the enemy.
• Pos: The impulsor may solve the problem of wanting to cast wings twice in a turn, one for a librarian dreadnought, and meph. Meph rides in the Impulsor. 
• Pos: deny the witch, psychic support at front line

 

• Neg: Mephiston is out in the open, exposed to enemy fire. Maybe the impulsor and unit with him can cover for him. And, design the strategy to attack snipers, eliminators, etc.
• Neg: Still don't have a chaplain or lemartes up front to get the good charge bonuses.
• Neg: They aren't charging T1. Standard theory is to move, Wings, charge as fast as possible.
• Neg: Screens need to be dealt with. No sense in trading 200+ point death company unit (and all the damage it'd do throughout the game) for a cheap 40 point guard infantry squad.
• Neg: one way to improve survivability is to take like 2-3 impulsors to rush and assist a jump pack assault. But, impulsors are about 100 points. This adds up quickly and they have very little damage output themselves. One issue would be, why not just take a whole bunch of extra assault units if you are paying that much in points... Still, death company is not hard to shoot off the board. Transhuman Physiology, or other strats get expensive very quickly.

[Morticon]

 

 

Rules don't allow charge T1, 

 

Not entirely accurate here my man! While the Impulsor rules don't allow your to move, disembark and charge- we can definitely still charge in T1. 

(Not sure if it was just a phrasing thing- ie: you were specifically referring to the squad inside and the rule combo they have to get them there, vs the actual game rules)

 

In fact, Mephy can reliably do it with Wings and the extra 4 or so inches from the disembark .

 

It's a 3" disembark + base size + 7" move - which will already put you fairly far in.   Add 12" wings on that - and then even +4" from Quickening (+3+1 for BA) and you have a threat range of just over 27+2d6"  

 

I wouldnt solo him like this unless Im using wings to bring in a squad of Vets or SG or DC to support- but its a viable strategy

Edited May 17, 2020 by Morticon

[Captain Caine 24th]

Ah, sorry, I got excited as I do think he's competitive. But, I worded my rant poorly.  I was just referring to units transported inside the impulsor using its assault vehicle special rule to disembark at the end of the movement phase, and thereby being unable to charge. The picture in my mind is the impulsor clearing a screen (possibly charging), intercessors or reivers protecting Meph from fire, and clearing screens, and meph giving a bonus to a nearby Sanguinary guard or Death company, rolling in real angry. 

 

But, using wings in addition to the impulsor is really interesting. I hadn't thought of getting out, then using Wings to move further (in essence really rapidly redeploying). FLY is just a very good keyword regardless of what you plan to do.

 

Ultimately, I just like the idea of  an impulsor giving Meph tactical options--not that he has to be embarked in it, but that he can be. He can still do the t1 charge, but need not be thrown carelessly into combat by himself if he chooses. Just the same, he need not use Wings of Sanguinius, should a librarian dreadnought, or librarian w/jump pack be in the army too and already be casting it that turn (Psychic Focus rule problem). I could conceive of a situation where I go second, or seize, or for whatever reason feel I need to be very conservative in deployment. In this case, even if I don't plan to charge right away, rapid movement can correct a sub-optimal(excessively risk-adverse) deployment.

 

Come to think of it, It'd also reduce drops for deployment- 5x intercessors, Meph and an Impulsor all together can be one drop?

 

I still worry impulsor + 5x primaris infantry + meph is too many points (or maybe multiple impulsors would be). I need to play test it.