Quickie Batrep vs Tau again

[Prot]

Hey guys,

I'm super pressed for time, so I'll just have to break this down into 'highlights' of the game.

First of I wanted to get two new units in the army: Yncarne, and 6 shining spears.

I screwed up my list a bit, but had to make adjustments on the fly as a result. I never know who I'm playing before hand and when I saw it was Tau I knew it was going to be nasty.

My list has been shown quite a bit and I just actually reduced my favoured Wraith Units to make this work therefore I could not (with good conscious) include a proxied Wraithseer. It just wouldn't fit and I didn't have the points.

I threw together some farseers, a warlock, Spiritseer, my 5 Wraithaxes in Serpent, 7 Banshees (yup!). 3 Night Spinners, Falcon with 5 Dark Reapers.

Most of the 'assault' units had Relic hunters.

Any way on with the game....

- Tau get first turn. I REALLY hid everything and he failed to kill scouts (I used 2 CP for Prepared). His line of sight was limited, his indirect was 30 and 36" respectively.

- My first turn I don't want to go too far out because I out range him with the falcon (down to 3 wounds) and 3 Night Spinners.

- I take an early lead, I do the double move on the Shining spears (also got off Fortune on them), and go after his Ghost Keel. I can't kill it. Not even close. It took my shooty to kill drones, and the assault maybe took 4 wounds off of the dude, this is with Relic Hunters in effect! Maybe it's normal, I had trouble wounding with S6 on T6 and only 3 attacks each against a 4++ invuln.

- I zoom up Serpent with my WraithAxes.

- His turn he laces into the Spears with a LOT. I use the Exarch's 3++ save, and somehow tank a ton and then they all disappear in the second half of his massive shooting phase. I never passed a single Fortune. The squad really did nothing.

- But I put the Yncarne out as a result since he had used a lot of his shooting.

- Because my Spears failed on his turn his Ghost Keel uses 1CP to act at top shelf, and he dual roasts my Farseer Skyrunner and Warlock Skyrunner. That's rough. I just could not shoot the bloody GHost keel down. I hit it with 18 Night spinner shots, 5 Reapers, and a damaged Falcon and did 2 wounds. The -1 to hit, plus 4++ was my doom.

- My Yncarne moves on my turn... into his secondary commander. At the same time, on the opposite side of the board, he is slapping his head at the fact he left his flank open to Deep striking Banshees. He can't overwatch, they tie up the Stormsurge. He thought they were in the serpent but I told him before game I was spending the CP to deepstirke them, and my Wriaths are always in the Serpent.

These guys watch on as the Yncarne Smites/ Gaze of Ynnead's a 5 man squad of fish people so the Yncarne can assault and easily kill the Commander. I consolidate -away- from the center of the table to make my Banshees on the other side 'closest target' for the firebase in the middle (stormsurge/RIptide, etc).

- My stupid serpent move was dumb. He almost had it dead, I advanced it over the Kroot shield, and had erroneously kept the contents in.

- I realize where I put the serpent was stupid, He could have easily surrounded it and killed everything. I tell him this, he has another head slap moment. Still the Serpent finally goes down, I roll no explosion, however I roll 3 x 1's and have to CP reroll one of the 1's and even then I lose my SpiritSeer, and 1 Wraith! (Man I absolutely hate that about elites in transports in 8th. Eldar really get hit hard by this.)

- When the Serpent dies, before he can shoot the Yncarne, I use the dead Serpent to teleport the Yncarne over to the trouble by the Stormsurge...

- Every body out of the car.

- I use Farseer, and Yncarne to multi smite and kill kroot after this picture was taken. (He assaulted my Banshees hoping to get rid of them and free up the Stormsurge, but I positioned my Wraiths and Yncarne that I could react and limit his damage potential.

- Actually point of interest: After teleporting the Yncarne, I placed her 3" away from Kroot and I heroically intervened her into Kroot and I did not see this as a "Charge" so I thought it was legal. Any thoughts on that?

- My turn comes, Kroot are dead from above mentioned smites, Yncarne does 9 wounds to Stormsurge, I once again spend all my firepower trying to kill that stupid Ghost Keel and it finally dies. My other stuff hits some of his battlesuits that dropped in.

- My HQ's are almost all dead. I have my Spinners, but they are just mopping up the squads with Marker lights.

- I pull into the lead, and he's frustrated at the banshee's, and we call it. His Riptide (as usual) is completely untouched. I don't bother with all the drones around it. The Stormsurge only got 2 turns of shooting, and probably (in his words) won me the game.

Post Game:

- Was my move with the Yncarne legal? It reads as legal, but heroic intervention seemed strong in this scenario.

- My and my opponent made a lot of mistakes. He misheard my Banshee/Wraith deployment. He actually heard correctly but said he just had a brain fart on what I told him and ignored it.

- The banseehs charging the Stormsurge out of reserves. I gave them their charge bonus out of deepstrike. I read it as legal, but is it? Or did I cheat?

- The Shining Spears. I don't get it. 185 points of mediocrity. I am almost positive I could do better, OR base my list around them as others do, which I don't think I want to. I just bought these models... 2 boxes to make a beefy squad. Kind of disappointed.

- Yncarne. Fun... 280 pts worth? Debatable, but a fun unit.

- My list was all over the place. It was super difficult to play and was mega-CP hungry. Hit and fade with Reapers, -1 to hit on Reflexes was -mandatory- to keep Spears/Flacon/Serpent even plausibly livable against his army. A very hard match up and I'm feeling like I had very little going on with my list. SO many characters, so little bodies, and paltry damage.

- Aside from the death style disembark I keep experiencing with Serpents and Wraiths, I've finally learned to play them in a way that opponents can struggle if they don't manage that threat. I'm not really liking much about the rest of the army though.

- Farseers/HQ/Warlocks/Spiritseer... LOTS of points... which require TONS of protection and this list just spent too much on small model count stuff that didn't do much. I may have won but my army felt really crappy and just my actual play style won me the game.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Yncarne move is legal. A heroic intervention is not a charge, which is why you see them as separate conditions in things like Shock Assault. Not sure what you think was illegal about the banshees.

 

Yncarne is very good with proper positioning and poor target choice from your opponent. It sounds like both things happened for you this game, allowing her to be super slippery. Obviously she has a bit more to her with other ynnari.

 

Edit: if you mean you used acrobatic for the banshees after a deepstrike, then ya that's against the rules.

Edited February 22, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[Dread]

Sounds like am intense game. I have to say I wish your spears would have worked better for you, mine usually kick but.

[Maxxreloaded]

Sounds like a great game

Did you run as crafworld or Ynnari?

Wraiths and Ynnari Potential for resurrection of dead wraiths . I’ve been looking at wraiths and bikes as ynnari

 

I’ve enjoyed my banshees massive charge range and no overwatch ability

[Prot]

Hey guys,

 

Thanks for the feedback. I am a little rushed here, just wanted to quickly comment....

 

Yncarne move is legal. A heroic intervention is not a charge, which is why you see them as separate conditions in things like Shock Assault. Not sure what you think was illegal about the banshees.

Yncarne is very good with proper positioning and poor target choice from your opponent. It sounds like both things happened for you this game, allowing her to be super slippery. Obviously she has a bit more to her with other ynnari.

Edit: if you mean you used acrobatic for the banshees after a deepstrike, then ya that's against the rules.

 

Okay. So the part I meant specifically was adding to my assault distance out of Deepstrike. I couldn't tell by the way it's written if I MUST be able to Advance in order to add more to my assault rolls, or if the extra was inherent?

 

Sounds like am intense game. I have to say I wish your spears would have worked better for you, mine usually kick but.

 

It was intense. Not intentionally. My deployment caused him a bit of a fit. The Spears had a role, I just could not get them to work. A lot of the stuff -outside- of his castle is -1 to hit in shooting. I couldn't believe how big a difference that made. So spears even had trouble getting rid of Keel drones... I find Ghost Keels such a pain in the butt. Every time I go against them I don't know why people don't use them more. They are super annoying. 

 

The Spears had okay shooting, but let's be honest we can get bikes with shurikens for a lot cheaper. The -2 AP 2 Damage, and the Craftworld ability to add 1 attack (Relic Hunters) all lined up, but with 6 bikes, it just kind of... flunked. Taking the extra Invuln on the Exarch WITH Fortune was (I think ) supposed to be a bit better at tanking but getting hit with multi damage just really negates that premise.

 

Personally I rather prefer the Wraiths at that point cost. THey're just too slow to use exclusively in missions... 40K missions especially.

 

Sounds like a great game
Did you run as crafworld or Ynnari?
Wraiths and Ynnari Potential for resurrection of dead wraiths . I’ve been looking at wraiths and bikes as ynnari

I’ve enjoyed my banshees massive charge range and no overwatch ability

 

Craftworlds. I confess I had a LOT of trouble making the list. I know I wanted to use the Yncarne, but the more time I spent on the list, I realized.... the potential to use 1 Ynnari Detachment might be the way to go with Wraiths. 

 

So the short version is: Expert Crafters, and Masterful shots to deny cover on all the heavy units (Vanguards?) So... Nightspinners, Falcon, Reapers, etc.

 

The Battalion was Relic Hunters and the +1 to assault on everything else. It didn't work too well. The Banshees (depending on if I used them right or wrong, didn't need it) and the Bikes hardly benefited. (5 extra attacks is good).

 

I did think about the recycle facet. I would like to experiment with the idea. I tried to make a list with Yvraine and Yncarne in that detachment with the Wraiths, and bikes, but I couldn't get it to fit.

 

The Heavies must be included in Expert Crafters and the Masterful shots to have effect (especially with all the ZERO AP we have).

 

So back to the drawing board. You know I was starting to turn the corner on the Wraithknight which is a fun, nice looking centerpiece, but the Yncarne was really just had this 'cool factor' going. It really isn't much more productive than a Chaos Daemon Prince, but it looks cool, and can catch people off guard. 280 points still feels too much though for the damage it presents, but the fact is I'm thinking (like you suggest) it should be somehow wedged into Ynnari.

 

Thanks again for the recommendations and ideas. I'm winning these games usually but they feel like really janky wins that I should be losing.  I did miss the Vibro cannons cheap threat, however I did not miss them giving up an easy kill every turn. :)

[SkimaskMohawk]

To get the extra 3" you need to have actually advanced in the movement phase. Because deepstrike happens at the end of the movement phase, you're barred from movement and cannot advance.

[Prot]

Okay thanks for the clarification. Luckily I took them in the same detachment as the spears allowing an extra inch for assault on top of relic hunters. 

[NatBrannigan]

New Dice! You need new Dice!

 

How you can assault / shoot that much into a Ghostkeel and not cripple it I don't know...

[Prot]

New Dice! You need new Dice!

 

How you can assault / shoot that much into a Ghostkeel and not cripple it I don't know...

 

Oh the dice I've bought! :)

 

Seriously though this happens every game. 

 

I have another game lined up. This time I plan to use a Ynnari detachment (Vanguard) with 2 x Wraith units, and a unit of Banshees.

 

It's mostly because I loved painting the Yncarne and I'd like an excuse to pain Yvraine. That said the list will probably stink. 

 

I'm kind of like a kid in a candy store with eldar. I like flyer models, wraith models, Yncarne... so I try to put it together and then I'm shocked when it doesn't work. lol

 

I've taken flyers out for the last few lists, and honestly if I were to take Eldar to a tournament I don't think Flyers are near the great unit they once were. That said, even if they work the model count gets crazy low in my lists. 

 

So right now enough babbling this is the potential list for next game: ( I Need some suggestions for the last 233 points!) This is 1776 of 2000 points!

 

Batt:

Farseer Skyrunner

Warlock Skyrunner

10 guardians + Platform (DS?)

2 x 5 Rangers

 

Heavy:

Night Spinner x 2 (not sure about using 3 anymore)

 

Vanguard Detachment:

Yvraine Hangs out with Wraiths on table... buffing with: Word of Phoenix and Shield of Ynnead.

Yncarne

 

Bashees x 5 (exarch inc.)

wraithguard with the Dscythes start on table with Yvraine as body guard.

Wraithblades

 

2 Serpents with Vectored Engines (for Banshees and Shield axe Wraiths).

 

1776 points.

 

Should I plop flyers in? More heavies? Ideas to make this actually competitive?

[NatBrannigan]

I'd try your Shining Spears again, they really are good.

 

Can your Farseer and Warlock buff the stuff in the Ynnari detachment? Not really sure how that works to be honest.

[Prot]

I'd try your Shining Spears again, they really are good.

 

Can your Farseer and Warlock buff the stuff in the Ynnari detachment? Not really sure how that works to be honest.

 

No. My understanding is they can't interact at all with Psychics. So my understanding is that not only can the Farseer not cast Fortune on the Ynnari Wraiths, the Wraiths cannot take advantage of a Doomed enemy unit. 

 

It seems harsh but that's how I understand it.

 

On the other hand: Yvraine will give 6+ Feel no pain to all  Ynarri (including Wraiths/Banshees) and her Psychic ability will give all a buff of 5++ Invuln within 6" and she can heal/bring back from the dead a model.

 

On the list:

I was thinking something shootier. I MAY try the 6 man Spear squad again, but I have a feeling you need something like... 3 squads to make them work. Here's the thing... and this is typical Janky Eldar stuff... I did not cast "Protect" on my Spears which would have given the Exarch a 2+ invuln against shooting.

 

So do I put the Shining Spears in the Ynnari detachment (For healing, and the extra Life through death: Soulburst +1 to to hit rolls with some strats are good.)

 

I may put the spears in the Ynnari just for the heck of it, however this makes my shooting phase pretty darn lethargic! 

 

I sear I have to figure these guys out soon. I can't see entering the tournie season locally with how I'm playing these guys. I will get my head handed to me every game at this rate. lol

[Maxxreloaded]

I’d place the spears as craftworld myself

Keeps your threats separate and you can buff ynarri or craftwork via CP and psychic as your battle dictates.

I think the army has two options to apply pressure and is not hamstrung if dice go against you or you loose a key unit

[Prot]

I’d place the spears as craftworld myself

Keeps your threats separate and you can buff ynarri or craftwork via CP and psychic as your battle dictates.

I think the army has two options to apply pressure and is not hamstrung if dice go against you or you loose a key unit

 

Thanks, but I will say last game I had a very complicated detachment set up where the bikes were getting Relic Hunters (+1 attack within 3" of markers) and +1 to assault. Right now I can't do that so the Bikes would get Expert Crafters and Masterful Shots. 

 

So I'm kind of thinking at least with the Ynnari they would get the +1 to hit from strength from death or whatever it's called. That plus the Proc on 6+ hits strat (can't remember the name) would seem to go well together. 

[Are Verlo]

I love the vibrant colours you used on the warlock/farseers and Yncarne. I´m not as bold as you are and paint mostly with dull earthlike colours. And when I do try it, it always ends up looking like something Elton John would have worn on scene in his heydays...

 

If you just run simple mathhammer with averages, how much damage could/would one expect from shining spears vs the ghostkeel?

[Maxxreloaded]

I can see the appeal to having the spears ynnari, my charge dice always seem to let me down and the craftworld allowing for +1 charge on top of ghostwalk. +2 on the charge and a cp the-roll should mean I can make that 9” charge - but at the loss of strength from death and resurrection etc

[NatBrannigan]

It's the same for Wraithblades, i'd rather be able to get the bonuses to charge, extra protection etc from various psychic powers that you lose by going Ynnari.

 

A Ynnari Wraithseer looks monstrous though with the 5+++ relic that also reduces damage by 1 (warlord trait that does something similar so maybe take 2).