Uses for low miracle dice.

[jimbo1701]

Hi guys and gals.

 

Got my first game in the other day. Trounced by grey knights. Great learning experience though plus only had half an army in effect as still waiting for new releases. I amassed quite the pool of miracle dice due to sacred rose and triumph (unrelated question, you do gain miracle dice every player turn for the TOSK right?) and was hoping for peoples thoughts on the lower 1-2 scoring miracle dice ie most of what I rolled. My thoughts:

 

1. use 2s for guaranteed hits on bs2+ models, though many of these will have reroll 1s. Maybe for overcharged plasma but bit of a waste of the shooting phase AoF.

 

2. Use with the burn 1-3 strats such as divine intervention as their number has no relevance.

 

3. Use to auto pass morale and therefore accrue another MD in the process.

 

4. Use to fail an armour save intentionally ie to stop being trapped in combat.

 

Any other uses you can think of?

[bkde]

Autopassing morale by using a "1" miracle dice does not grant an additional miracle dice, it's stated in the AoF rules that MD cannot be used to generate an additional MD for Valour (morale) or Purity (Deny the Witch), it has to be rolled for.

 

Regarding low MD, 1's I keep to autopass morale, 2's generally the same, however 2's are usually the most useless of all miracle dice.  Sometimes I throw them away while charging to ensure that those key charges DO NOT FAIL. 

 

Moment of Grace is another strat to burn them with.

 

As stated, using them in the shooting phase is generally a waste when you want to be saving those AoF for damage or wound rolls.

 

What about the Grey Knights gave you trouble?

[jimbo1701]

Autopassing morale by using a "1" miracle dice does not grant an additional miracle dice, it's stated in the AoF rules that MD cannot be used to generate an additional MD for Valour (morale) or Purity (Deny the Witch), it has to be rolled for.

 

Regarding low MD, 1's I keep to autopass morale, 2's generally the same, however 2's are usually the most useless of all miracle dice. Sometimes I throw them away while charging to ensure that those key charges DO NOT FAIL.

 

Moment of Grace is another strat to burn them with.

 

As stated, using them in the shooting phase is generally a waste when you want to be saving those AoF for damage or wound rolls.

 

What about the Grey Knights gave you trouble?

Thanks for the reply and for clarifying the MD generation - have now re-read it and understand. Knew I’d make a few mistakes first time out so will know for next time now. Also good advice re: the charge phase.

 

Was a reasonably strong GK list, good player and I was literally running what I had assembled so the army didn’t work very well together. Any tips on how to use the TOSK would be appreciated.

[Lazy Soldier]

Bit of a niche use I guess, but low miracle dice as Ebon Chalice are pretty good as you can discard one to turn the one used in that AOF to a 6. 

[ThePenitentOne]

If you take the Rite of battle that gives you a +3 to deny the witch against Grey Knights it helps.

[jimbo1701]

If you take the Rite of battle that gives you a +3 to deny the witch against Grey Knights it helps.

Yeah I did so, his psychic rolling was hot, never below an 8. I managed to deny one per game (over turn 3)

[vossyvo]

Was also thinking about this recently.

I think the best use it to form a pool of burner dice for Moment of Grace Strat & Divine Intervention Strat (which was already mentioned).

The way I was reading it, does Moment of Grace add +1-3 for all dice in that hit or wound roll for the single model? or am I modifing a single dice in the roll?

It looks pretty good for characters or to use on the exorcist, really like that you can pick to do it once the roll is made. 

Edited February 26, 2020 by vossyvo

[bkde]

Was also thinking about this recently.

I think the best use it to form a pool of burner dice for Moment of Grace Strat & Divine Intervention Strat (which was already mentioned).

The way I was reading it, does Moment of Grace add +1-3 for all dice in that hit or wound roll for the single model? or am I modifing a single dice in the roll?

It looks pretty good for characters or to use on the exorcist, really like that you can pick to do it once the roll is made.

Modifying a single dice from the roll only.

 

Regarding ToSK...paint it, put it on the shelf. 18 wounds at T3 w/4++ that easily goes down to small arms fire? Hard pass.

Edited February 26, 2020 by bkde

[Atrus]

Playing Ebon Chalice, I've found the low dice to be useful as burners for 6s, or as mentioned as sacrificial dice for divine intervention. Do i need to reread moment.of grace strat or was that strat just for saves?

 

Outside of competitive play, ToSK is a really fun unit if involving some book keeping and a Hospitaller.

[Astral Arcane]

IMO ToSK is only for display / fluffy gun games you don't care about winning. I plan to magnetize the lady's feet and use them as Hospitaler etc to get the most from my time+money. 

For 2 miracle dice, I would just use them for +2 cover saves or anytime a 1 will fail to avoid the risk. 1s are for morale tests. 

[Lemondish]

 

Was also thinking about this recently.

I think the best use it to form a pool of burner dice for Moment of Grace Strat & Divine Intervention Strat (which was already mentioned).

The way I was reading it, does Moment of Grace add +1-3 for all dice in that hit or wound roll for the single model? or am I modifing a single dice in the roll?

It looks pretty good for characters or to use on the exorcist, really like that you can pick to do it once the roll is made.

Modifying a single dice from the roll only.

 

Regarding ToSK...paint it, put it on the shelf. 18 wounds at T3 w/4++ that easily goes down to small arms fire? Hard pass.

 

 

It is the toughest Infantry unit for the points in the army. 

 

I can always tell when somebody has never used the unit before in a match. They look at the statline and mathhammer it out in their heads. 

 

That is not how it will go down in a match. If you were previously worried about ITC secondaries, don't - Kingslayer is gone. 

Edited March 1, 2020 by Lemondish

[Atrus]

It can be surprisingly tough, especially when you are using cities of death rules. It's easy to get it obscured to have it benefits from -2 to hit.

[Astral Arcane]

Idk in my experience with Sisters, infantry units either need to A. be in a transport to get where they need to go B. scoring, parked on an objective or C. have heavy bolters.

 

Gave it some thought, ToSK could be pretty interesting in a big foot infantry list with enough power armored bodies to overwhelm the enemy!

Edited March 2, 2020 by Astral Arcane

[tvih]

I guess it's a bit off-topic given the thread title but...

 

 

 

It is the toughest Infantry unit for the points in the army. 

 

I can always tell when somebody has never used the unit before in a match. They look at the statline and mathhammer it out in their heads. 

 

That is not how it will go down in a match. If you were previously worried about ITC secondaries, don't - Kingslayer is gone. 

 

Yeah, people don't really seem to understand the unit. If they did, even mathammer backs it up. Mind you, I don't have the model yet either, but it's not hard to see how it works. It's not expensive for 18 wounds, despite being T3, considering it has a good invuln save also and all the buffs it gives. In the time D1 small arms fire kills it, it would've killed more than 20 other models from your army since this one is harder to hit.

 

How about heavier weapons? Well let's consider lascannons. They do 3.5 damage on average. Half of them get eaten up by the 4++. So you basically need ~10 wounding lascannon shots for a kill, which means 12 hits, which means 18 shots at BS 2 (due to the -1 to hit), 24 at BS 3, and so on. In the meanwhile an Exorcist would only take just a bit over four successfully wounding shots from a lascannon to kill, which means six hits, 9 shots at BS 3... so the enemy could kill 2-3 Exorcists or one Triumph, at which point I sure know which I'd rather have the enemy shooting! In fact I'd be laughing all the way the back home if someone focused the Triumph instead of Exorcists in a game with anti-tank weapons. Even something like Autocannons would be roughly a tie in terms of shots to kill.

 

The above is of course averages, if the enemy got lucky you could die to three hits for 6 damage each, but then that's true for any unit with many wounds. And also this doesn't factor in any MD use, command rerolls (for either player) or the like. But point is, if it was any more durable for its cost and abilities, it'd mostly just be overpowered. Especially as for the lower-AP small arms fire depending on terrain it can be easy to gain cover for a 2+ armor save, since despite its size only the smallest fraction of the base needs to be in a ruin or similar to get a cover save. Of course if it's supporting an advance rather than gunline that may not be an option, but the all the rest of the above applies nonetheless. And heck, if you're running a Hospitaller it can even patch the darn thing up each round, while we have no way of repairing those precious Exorcists.

 

In terms of offensive capability the model is obviously not great at range since it only has 6 bolt pistols, but in melee it can be quite nasty indeed since at full power (W10 or more) it gets what is basically 10 power maul attacks and 4 relic-grade attacks. "Only" WS3 (but effective WS2 while BR relic is in play) and S3 base sure, but hardly something to sneeze at.

 

On top, everything that all the other relics do. Overall, people wanting it to be cheaper/better/whatever kinda need a reality check. I'm not saying it's going to be the best unit ever in every game, but what it is a very solid unit. Dismissing it simply because it is T3 is just ignorant. When I get mine I'm definitely going to make the sub-models removable to use as different characters as well, but I definitely plan to run it as the Triumph too.

[Astral Arcane]

Good points  tvih
Seems like the only major downside to ToSK is it's lack of Order Convictions which would probably make it OP. 

 

As for low Miracle Dice, a good solution is probably to just spend 1cp to take an extra OtR for Litanies of Faith on a character to reroll them.