Gonna build a Blood Angel legion, need help and advice

[SkimaskMohawk]

Well it gets a little silly when the IC can buy a dedicated like Alvarex Maun or an ultramarine master of signal. In those cases only those units can go in it and not the squad they're attached to.

[Gorgoff]

Well it gets a little silly when the IC can buy a dedicated like Alvarex Maun or an ultramarine master of signal. In those cases only those units can go in it and not the squad they're attached to.

Imagine the story behind that.

"GET OUT OF MY TANK!

It's MINE. 

MIIIIIIINE!"

[bushman101]

Where is the rule for Implacable Advance for Vet Tact? I don't see it in the Astartes red book or the rules

[Gorgoff]

Where is the rule for Implacable Advance for Vet Tact? I don't see it in the Astartes red book or the rules

Legiones Astartes Army List book, page 28, special rules, third rule.

[bushman101]

Bad wording.

Where is the rule described?

[Gorgoff]

Bad wording.

Where is the rule described?

Page 30

[bushman101]

So, here's the list I've been fiddling with (2500 pts).  It has some points left for some options.

How does it look? What would be nice to build towards 3k?

 

2335 points out of 2500

Rite of War - The Day of Revelation 

 

HQ - Praetor

paragon blade, iron halo, jump pack, digital laser

 

HQ- Damocles Command Rhino

 

Troop - Assault Squad (10)

2 power swords, power fist

 

Troop - Assault Squad (10)

2 power swords, power fist

 

Troop - Tactical Squad (10)

Rhino w/ dozer blade

 

Elite - Apothecary (2)

2 power swords, 2 jump packs

 

Elite - Dawnbreakers (10)

 

Fast- Contemptor-Incaendius Dreadnaught

1 Talon of Perdition, 1 Dreadnaught CCW, 2 meltas

 

Fast- Contemptor-Incaendius Dreadnaught

1 Talon of Perdition, 1 Dreadnaught CCW, 2 meltas

 

Heavy- Leviathan Dreadnaught

Siege drill, melta lance, phosphex discharger, torso heavy flamers

Dreadnaught Droppod

[Cris R]

So I see a lot of strong elements of this list that mirrors my own DoR list. But it's the foundation for Centurion or Mournival games where infantry and walkers consist the majority of the units in these matches. If you're going to play at 2.5K to 3K, you're going to need to address a broader range of vehicles, flyers, and monstrous creatures that need something equivalent to counter them. Here are a few things you could do to improve it:

 

1) I would suggest looking at unit of three Javelins replacing one of the Incaendius since that gives you a lot more tactical flexibility when deep striking for about the same point cost. This thread has some good ideas for running them, but I use the missile/Iliastus-pattern assault cannon combination to keep things fluffy. I've magnetized my Javelin gunners though, so I can swap out the cannons for meltas.

 

2) I would also suggest swapping one of the meltas on the other Incaendius with the Iliastus-pattern assault cannon so it has more range to threaten units.

 

3) I would use the Blade of Perdition over the Paragon Blade for your Praetor so you save a few points while still having a potent melee weapon that's Master Crafted. I'm also assuming you're using a Bolt Pistol for the Praetor?

 

4) You're going to need tanks or heavier flyers to add more firepower to your list and hold back end objectives, especially against the tougher vehicles and flyers you're going to come across in 2.5k and 3k games. Right now your HQ Damocles and Rhino will get blown off the table after you set up your first turn on a table with light terrain and you'll be left scrambling to protect those objectives. Admittedly, this is a major challenge with DoR but I use Sicarans to provide that punch and protect my back end game.

 

5) This leads me to my final point, which is the Leviathan Dread. It's an awesome model and a potent threat, but I would drop it and/or all the Incaendius dreads to save points for recommendation four. Again, think about your back end game as much as your front end one with larger point matches.

 

Obviously building this list means spending more money on more expensive units. If you're slim on funds, I would just play ZM, Centurion, or Mournival events using the units you have and save up for the more expensive units to play larger games in the future. I actually prefer those modes and don't feel like I'm missing out on the 30k experience. Others can comment as needed.

 

Edit: 6) Looking at the list again, I’m wondering what the Tacts in the Rhino do in your list. What is the load out for the Tacts? How do they address the gaps in your list? Are there other units that use those models that could serve better? Or should you just drop it for another unit of Assault Marines? Think about those questions.

Edited March 21, 2021 by Cris R

[SkimaskMohawk]

I'd honestly recommend dumping the dawnbreakers before the leviathan. As point efficient as they are, they're still pretty hard to use compared to things like javelins or angel tears.

 

I'd only keep them in if you're going to run sanguinius so they can score, because your list has an extremely light objective presence.

[Cris R]

I'd honestly recommend dumping the dawnbreakers before the leviathan. As point efficient as they are, they're still pretty hard to use compared to things like javelins or angel tears.

 

I'd only keep them in if you're going to run sanguinius so they can score, because your list has an extremely light objective presence.

Agree. The Dawnbreakers are a good bodyguard unit for the Praetor but you could dump them for another ten-man unit of Assault Marines armed with fists and power axes for that purpose and use the remaining points for another set of Javelins or other units. You’ll get more scoring options that way. I’d still suggest thinking about whether you want to keep the Leviathan for the reasons I outlined above. Edited March 21, 2021 by Cris R

[bushman101]

Javelins seem neat. They also seem very fragile (and hard on the wallet).

I assume people are just Deep Striking them in and providing support fire. Anything to add here?

[Cris R]

Javelins seem neat. They also seem very fragile (and hard on the wallet).

I assume people are just Deep Striking them in and providing support fire. Anything to add here?

 

Yes, you deep strike them in. That's what I run in my fast attack slot for my DoR list to meet the deep striking fast attack requirement. Go read the Javelin entry in the Fast Attack section of 1D4Chan 30k Legiones Astartes tactics and you'll see their a good option because of the bonus rules they get over regular speeders combined with the solid weapon options that include the assault cannon. Another way to look at this issue is looking at your list and asking: what do three Javelins do that an Incaendius can't do? And for me, it's their ability to deep strike, move quickly, have a really good set of weapons to target a range of targets, and have those bonus rules. You can do the same exercise with other deep striking fast attack units like the Xiphon or Primaris Lightning. And I think you'll find that it makes more sense to drop at least one of those dreads to diversify your list against more units in a 2.5k to 3k game.

 

But again, there are other ways you can enjoy Heresy with what you already have if you still have reservations about spending more money. For instance, a ZM list you could run is: using the Praetor as a Delegatus or Warmonger, one unit of Dawnbreakers, 2 units of Assault Marines, and one Incaendius. You'd have to adjust the numbers of Dawnbreakers to make it work for a regular 1,000 point game but you can easily fit all that into a 1,500 point ZM or Centurion list. Just don't run DoR in ZM because you can't deep strike units with Jump Packs in that game mode.

Edited March 22, 2021 by Cris R

[SkimaskMohawk]

No, no, do not deepstrike javelins or other similar vehicles. Any vehicle deepstriking has to pre-set their facing, and a scatter can shunt you out of arc of your intended target, with flyers it can get even worse since your vertical arc is pretty strict on top of the horizontal one. Even with a Damocles I'd recommend to avoid deepstriking them.

 

 

Instead, ou can easily use their movement to hide behind terrain to either provide cover or block LoS. You can get an extra turn of shooting as a result and move them in tandem with the rest of your forces.

 

The general best javelin build is MM, cyclones and two HKs for 75 points. You have a very good sustained damage output and can spike it on targets you really want to kill. Defensively you can always opt to jink if you have no other cover, and single targets like that often get passed up for bigger threats like leviathans. Theyre also more durable against melee due to the -2 to hit and can't just get krak'd.

 

 

Touching back on the leviathan, id never recommend dropping it for other vehicles unless it has a really bad loadout like double storm cannons. In a pod, you have a 50% chance of getting stealth and positioning it for a 2+ cover save turn 1. You can generally fry whatever you point it at, and then it'll tank a ton of firepower, which is great with a drop force that comes in with it turn 1. Theres very little that can compare to it, while other units can fill fire support roles.

[bushman101]

Here's some painting progress so far....

Trying to decide if I like the shiny look. I haven't clear coated anything yet, so I have the option for matte.

I might darken some of the ballast also

Edited June 16, 2021 by bushman101

[bushman101]

Hey, it's me again. The painting is coming along and I got some Missile Javelins built.

 

Let's talk about Heavy slot choices: for DoR and beyond

What works well?

What catches my eye is the Whirlwind Scorpius and the Deredeo. The Scorpius can hide, not move and pump out Str 8 shots on side armor. The Deredeo can be kitted various ways.

 

Thoughts and opinions?

Edited June 23, 2021 by bushman101