Abaddon kills Dorn in the 1st Black Crusade?

[Moonreaper666]

Tired of Abaddon being treated like a fool so why not have him kill a Primarch. Besides, kinda need another Loyalist Primarch to die and balance out the death of Alpharius and Omegon abadoning the Alpha Legion

 

Sigismund only lasted so long against Abaddon because he didn't have Drach'nyen. With the Daemonsword he can take on Dorn, kill him in one strike. It would also affect the Abaddon vs Guilliman dynamic as Grandpa Smurf would be more afraid of his own mortality (Abaddon being the ONLY Astarte to kill a Primarch in a duel would be an actual threat)

 

The Sons of Dorn would be seen as liars and lose trust with Imperium soldiers, with long term consenquences as many Imperials refuse to coordinate or rescue IF troops. Vulkan only saw Dorn's ghost/spirit in the Warp while Lysander develops a rivalry with Kilbre or another of Abaddon's lieutenant

[Marshal Loss]

Nope. Abaddon doesn't need a Primarch kill to prove himself. Any fans that claim he needs a scalp like that fundamentally misunderstand his character - and there is also no need to "balance" loyalist v. traitor Primarch numbers. As of now there isn't even frankly a Guilliman-Abaddon dynamic that needs redressing, the two haven't met in ten millennia and have never fought. Abaddon may or may not be capable of killing the Lord Commander of the Imperium in combat; he is definitely capable of bringing down the Imperium. Nothing else matters.

 

Additionally, Dorn's death was poetic precisely because he didn't get killed in some kind of epic duel: the most stalwart and loyal of the Emperor's sons is dragged down by hordes of knives in the dark. No glory, no songs, no nothing. It's the kind of ending he didn't deserve which is precisely why it's such a good death for him.

[Deadass]

Nope. Abaddon doesn't need a Primarch kill to prove himself. Any fans that claim he needs a scalp like that fundamentally misunderstand his character - and there is also no need to "balance" loyalist v. traitor Primarch numbers. As of now there isn't even frankly a Guilliman-Abaddon dynamic that needs redressing, the two haven't met in ten millennia and have never fought. Abaddon may or may not be capable of killing the Lord Commander of the Imperium in combat; he is definitely capable of bringing down the Imperium. Nothing else matters.

 

Additionally, Dorn's death was poetic precisely because he didn't get killed in some kind of epic duel: the most stalwart and loyal of the Emperor's sons is dragged down by hordes of knives in the dark. No glory, no songs, no nothing. It's the kind of ending he didn't deserve which is precisely why it's such a good death for him.

This. Besides, Abaddon already gibbed a primarch when him, Khayon and friends destroyed Canticle City.

[Brother Tyler]

...kinda need another Loyalist Primarch to die and balance out the death of Alpharius and Omegon abadoning the Alpha Legion...

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the books to be balanced on the number of Primarchs, the loyalists have lost Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius (definitely) and Rogal Dorn (depending on lore). All of the rest are missing, with the exception of Roboute Guilliman. The traitors have three dead Primarchs (the Night Haunter, Alpharius, and Horus) and one missing, with all of the rest avaiable in one form or another (without needing some lore McGuffin to bring them back). The two sides are almost even in terms of known dead, but since the traitors start out with one more (since Alpharius and Omegon are twins), they're ahead. Conversely, the Imperium only has one living Primarch that is actually available, whereas all of the living traitor Primarchs, with the exception of Omegon, are available.

 

Looking at availability in terms of the real world, the traitors come out ahead there, too, in that they have both Mortarion and Magnus the Red. The Imperium can only muster Roboute Guilliman. So once again, the traitors come out ahead and any cries for "balance" [in terms of giving equity to the two sides] means that the Imperium is due.

 

If we allow for Rogal Dorn to be dead (which is the camp that I am in), we don't know exactly how it happened. It may have been numberless hordes. Or maybe it was some Chaos Lord/Daemon Prince backed up by numberless hordes. We know only the basic facts, not the details.

 

Getting back to Abaddon, don't believe the internet meme hype. There's a lot more to Abaddon than simply the Imperium's propaganda that he has failed in each of his attempts. If you look at it from his perspective, he has achieved his objectives in most of those Black Crusades. Keep in mind that, despite recent lore progression, WH40K is a setting, not a story. Abaddon has an important role in the setting, serving as the successor to Horus's goal, albeit under very different circumstances. There have been plenty of discussions about this here over the years. I suggest conducting a search for relevant topics because some very insightful information has been brought up (some of it repeated in the replies above).

 

Hyperbole is not a strong way to make an argument.

[Excessus]

and Omegon abadoning the Alpha Legion

Did you get fluff in your books nobody else got?

 

Omegon doesn't show up in stories and that is perfectly fine, it's a testament to how the Alpha Legion tactics work in their lore.

[Snazzy]

Sigismund only lasted so long against Abaddon because he didn't have Drach'nyen. With the Daemonsword he can take on Dorn, kill him in one strike. It would also affect the Abaddon vs Guilliman dynamic as Grandpa Smurf would be more afraid of his own mortality (Abaddon being the ONLY Astarte to kill a Primarch in a duel would be an actual threat)

 

Sigismund was also the most capable killer of any Astartes.  Abaddon defeating him without the sword is more of a compliment than not.  

 

Besides, Abaddon did kill a Primarch.  He killed Horus.

 

Additionally, Dorn's death was poetic precisely because he didn't get killed in some kind of epic duel: the most stalwart and loyal of the Emperor's sons is dragged down by hordes of knives in the dark. No glory, no songs, no nothing. It's the kind of ending he didn't deserve which is precisely why it's such a good death for him.

 

It also showed how personally he viewed the loss of the Emperor.  Dorn's last stand was a voluntary suicide mission.

[Mr Smith]

 

...kinda need another Loyalist Primarch to die and balance out the death of Alpharius and Omegon abadoning the Alpha Legion...

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the books to be balanced on the number of Primarchs, the loyalists have lost Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius (definitely) and Rogal Dorn (depending on lore). All of the rest are missing, with the exception of Roboute Guilliman. The traitors have three dead Primarchs (the Night Haunter, Alpharius, and Horus) and one missing, with all of the rest avaiable in one form or another (without needing some lore McGuffin to bring them back). The two sides are almost even in terms of known dead, but since the traitors start out with one more (since Alpharius and Omegon are twins), they're ahead. Conversely, the Imperium only has one living Primarch that is actually available, whereas all of the living traitor Primarchs, with the exception of Omegon, are available.

 

There are no missing Chaos Primarchs; three are dead (Horus, Kurze, and Alpharius.)  The rest have ascended to Daemonhood.

[Gederas]

...kinda need another Loyalist Primarch to die and balance out the death of Alpharius and Omegon abadoning the Alpha Legion...

Be careful what you wish for. If you want the books to be balanced on the number of Primarchs, the loyalists have lost Ferrus Manus and Sanguinius (definitely) and Rogal Dorn (depending on lore). All of the rest are missing, with the exception of Roboute Guilliman. The traitors have three dead Primarchs (the Night Haunter, Alpharius, and Horus) and one missing, with all of the rest avaiable in one form or another (without needing some lore McGuffin to bring them back). The two sides are almost even in terms of known dead, but since the traitors start out with one more (since Alpharius and Omegon are twins), they're ahead. Conversely, the Imperium only has one living Primarch that is actually available, whereas all of the living traitor Primarchs, with the exception of Omegon, are available.

There are no missing Chaos Primarchs; three are dead (Horus, Kurze, and Alpharius.)  The rest have ascended to Daemonhood.

Omegon is still unaccounted for. He may or may not be dead, we don't know.

[Lord_Caerolion]

The Sons of Dorn would be seen as liars and lose trust with Imperium soldiers, with long term consenquences as many Imperials refuse to coordinate or rescue IF troops. Vulkan only saw Dorn's ghost/spirit in the Warp while Lysander develops a rivalry with Kilbre or another of Abaddon's lieutenant

 

What?

 

The Imperial Fists would be seen as liars because Dorn got killed? Of course, that's why the Blood Angels are seen as untrustworthy, because Sanguinius got killed by Horus, and it's why there's not an Imperium-wide celebration of the day of their Primarchs martyrdom, the Sanguinala. Oh, wait...

 

Also, Abaddon has killed a Primarch, and he didn't even need his daemon-sword to do it. He killed clone-Horus, who had all the same physical abilities as the original.

[Snazzy]

 

Also, Abaddon has killed a Primarch, and he didn't even need his daemon-sword to do it. He killed clone-Horus, who had all the same physical abilities as the original.

 

 

Boooooo!

[MegaVolt87]

 

 

Also, Abaddon has killed a Primarch, and he didn't even need his daemon-sword to do it. He killed clone-Horus, who had all the same physical abilities as the original.

 

 

Boooooo!

 

 

Except if Horus had his talon and world breaker Abaddon would have got his   pushed in, the talon is the better weapon than the mace the Emperor gave him. 

[Snazzy]

There is a certain irony in Abaddon killing Horus 2.0 with the Talon of Horus.  Especially, since Abaddon has positioned himself was the anti-Horus, using Horus's own weapon.

 

 

In the event that Abaddon had killed Dorn it would play into the idea that Abaddon succeeds where Horus failed.  Dorn was the one that forced the confrontation between the Emperor and Horus by holding back the siege of Terra long enough.