Can't damage Death Guard buddy

[dbecer01]

One of my friends that I most play 40k with plays pure Death Guard:

 

Here is the list from what I remember(sort-of):

 

Unit of 3xBlightHaulers

Leviathan with Butcher Array

3 units of 7 plague marines (loaded with plasma)

2 Daemon Princes (I forget the loadout)

2xTerminators with plamsas

then a foetid bloat drown or two with flamers

 

 

So, I get first turn, and I pop in on him with a Daemon Prince (Duplicity), 10 unit man of rubrics, and 2 Contemptors with Dual Butchers. I shot the prescience'd rubrics at the plague marines twice (stratagem).

 

He saved the last plague marine from morale, to prevent me from taking the VP (maelstrom, had psychological warfare). My 16 Butcher Canon shots did nothing against the Leviathan's 2+ save's prepared positions (I'm thinking of replacing the Butcher canon's with Lascanon's).

 

Next turn, he wiped the contemptors and rubrics quite easily. Following that, he smashed the Warlord DP and Magnus the red with the above units, and deepstruck in 2x5man  units of terminators (also with plasma).

 

I tried warping in some rubrics and terminators to take a point at the opposite point of the board, but by then, the VP difference was too great, and we had to leave the store.

 

So, what do you guys suggest?

[Agerjag]

Can you show your list and how many points total you were playing? Im trying to get a better picture of what you were looking at?

[dbecer01]

We were playing 2k,

 

I had 1 batallion of Duplicity:

Ahriman   (2 DMG Spells, Warptime)

DP/Wings (1 DMG spell, Prescience) Warlord Duplicity

DP/Wings (1 DMG Spell, don't remember)  +1 cast trait, DMC

 

Troops (all inferno boltguns):

7xRubrics     (weaver)

2x5xRubrics (Glammour)

 

Elites

5 Terminators, all boltguns (weaver)

3xHellforged Contemptors (all Butcher cannons)

 

Magnus (2 dmg spells, don't remember)

Edited March 10, 2020 by dbecer01

[Are Verlo]

Well. It´s hard to say what went wrong, but in my eyes you have too many HQs and too few bodies.

Butcher cannons vs Levis vil do "no to little" damage, when he is T8, 2+/4++/5+++. Perhaps you should have shot at something else with the butchers?

 

And I would recomend at least one big unit (20 rubrics or 10 scarabs) to ensure you get the most out of your buffs.

 

How dense terrain do you play with?

[dbecer01]

Well, there's no hiding Magnus.

 

We have 4 pieces of ruins near the corners of the map, and then small pieces here and there maybe 6 inches by 3 inches, and like 5 inches high.

 

 

LOS is cut off Diagonally for everything smaller than Magnus. I usually deploy him last, and try to get out of range of hos weapons.

[Are Verlo]

You have close to half your army in 4 models, and by your post it seems like your opponent got to them too easily.

 

Other than Magnus, it should be possible to hide a 5-strong rubric unit out of LoS, as the closest target and thus protect your characters.

 

Magnus is tricky and he goes well with other big «must be dealt with» targets. Perhaps you could drop one contemptor and/or DP to max out a rubric squad or SOTs

[Agerjag]

It mostly seems like you dont have enough armor cracking for that dread. Though smites do a really good job if you have enough. Im seeing alot of hellbrutes with missile las that are pretty points efficient for this. Quad las contemptor is solid too. If I had to use that list I would just have to ignore the leviathin and try to shread everything else until I could hope to drop enough mortal wounds on it. Or just play to other objectives.
As for list suggestions I would have more bodies to protect characters one way or another and maybe a bit of anti-tank.

[dbecer01]

Are Verlo, you made an excellent point. I don't have enough troops to protect my hq's. Also, I have wings which aren't doing much, because they just get murdered. I'm goibg to downsize my HQ's to something more efficient.

[Agerjag]

Compared to most tournament lists I have seen you seem to be short on characters. More troops would help protect them or hiding a small unit near your enemy so they cannot target. Do you just have 1 formation? A second battalion or at least utilizing all 3 slots would help with CP.

[dbecer01]

I can prob do that if I replace Magnus. And replace the DP's with exalted sorcs Edited March 11, 2020 by dbecer01

[Agerjag]

DP are really solid right now, gives rerolls (similar to exalted) and can crush things in melee. I have a magnus list in the Army lists section that Im trying right now that shows the types of characters I generally use. Right now its fairly similar just with two battalions. I am fairly reliant on smite/melee for armor cracking though. Have you tried a magic prince with devastating sorcery and arcane signet? Giver him astral blast and infernal gateway (use +2 strategem on infernal, ideally have him in magnus range). This helps me clear stuff away from vehicles so I can smite them down a little easier. +1 MW on everything that is clustered feels pretty good. Another reason is run multiple formations is so that you can have access to multiple cults. As cultists and tzzangors dont get any bonus thats usually where I take Magic. Sometimes I just take a supreme command detachment with magic (3 casters+magnus (though he doesnt get bonus)).

Your list feels like it should be able to clear fairly reasonably with the butcher cannon though. Your first round of smites will likely just hit fodder but once you can use the butcher cannons you should be able to clear away most things from smite blocking things like the leviathin dread. Im guessing you were losing too many characters by then due to low troop count.

 

You can teleport a small unit out of sight close to the enemy in some cases to stop them shooting at characters. Ive been using a large brick of scarab termies for character protection recently. Large bricks of rubric work as well. Some even take daemons for this. Just need to keep those characters alive so they can continue to smite down tough targets. Also make sure to remember our defensive stratagems to keep those units alive.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Agerjag

[Xenith]

17 scoring wounds is nothing at 2k points. I bring 30 at 1500. 

 

Small terrain in the middle doesnt help. Put the big stuff there and randomise. Each take it in turns placing a piece or whatever. 

 

Levis are hard. Why are you shooting it when it has +1 save, shoot other things instead, or ignore it. 

[dbecer01]

Butcher Cannon arrays are hard to ignore though.

[Beatnik cryptek]

Ever consider a mauler fiend rigged for massive firepower?

[dbecer01]

The problem with the fiends is that they hit on 4s, conpared to the contemptor’s 2s

[Prot]

I think some people above have given you some really solid advice. 

 

I do believe that you have enough characters, because when using Magnus he is a force multiplier that really can make your Psychic Phase far more reliable. 

 

Personally I have those contemptors sitting about 138 points each? That's through Battlescribe.

 

Personally for Butcher Cannons I've always used (proxyied in testing) the Decimator because I thought it was cheaper... something doesn't seem right. I've added up your list:

 

The problem with the fiends is that they hit on 4s, conpared to the contemptor’s 2s

 

The suggestion for a Maulerfiend is the idea of just rocketing a slightly cheaper unit into their lines or tying stuff up. Personally I don't really use them anymore though so I can't say how successful this would be.

 

We were playing 2k,

 

I had 1 batallion of Duplicity:

Ahriman   (2 DMG Spells, Warptime)

DP/Wings (1 DMG spell, Prescience) Warlord Duplicity

DP/Wings (1 DMG Spell, don't remember)  +1 cast trait, DMC

 

Troops (all inferno boltguns):

7xRubrics     (weaver)

2x5xRubrics (Glammour)

 

Elites

5 Terminators, all boltguns (weaver)

3xHellforged Contemptors (all Butcher cannons)

 

Magnus (2 dmg spells, don't remember)

 

I am getting 1845 points in Battlescribe. (Unless I've misunderstood the Contemptors). IF the contemptors with dual butchers are really 138 each, that's amazing so I don't think that's right.

 

Anyway, you are running into a problem I see with Magnus in a lot of lists. It's almost too many toys. To get this small of a troop factor working, you need an equal, but equally survivable threat with Magnus.... Bash Bro's... IE Mortarion, or some people are really enjoying the Lord of Change (absorbs a ton at a 3++ save).

 

Alternatively what I usually do is include a unit no one wants to shoot at but has too... this is either a cloud of Cultsts, or multi small units of them or it can be a deep striking, or warp timed unit of Tzaangors. The goal being you just want to wrap things... tanks, shooty units, etc.

 

Typically Death Guard can be a very swingy army to play with or against (I took them to a GT last year too) and that Disgustingly Resilient really can make for a feast or famine game.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Prot

[dbecer01]

Yeah, once I get a few more models, I’ll try changing up the list a bit. I’ve got a few things to think about with the info from this thread. Edited March 23, 2020 by dbecer01