What's been working for you?

[Morticon]

As the title says....what's been working for you guys? 

I havent had a lot of chance to play with the new rules given my situation .... ( I played about 3 or 4 games straight after the rules were released, but then practiced with RG for a tournament in SA, and because of Corona issues back "home" in China I've been away from my models - meaning I only have my RG list with me)

 

...but this hasn't stopped me from brainstorming lists and ideas!  So, I'm keen to hear what you guys have done and what combinations have been working in your environments.  

Let us know what you've stumbled on and what works well in practice vs theory!!   Also, let us know if your environment is more casual or more cutthroat! 

[Indefragable]

-Incursors

-New Strategems

- :cuss the DevDoc....T1 is for Advancimg

-Phobos Capt w/ Quake rounds (so underrated)

-Sang Guard w/fists

-Banner of Cheese is as awesome as ever

-Capt Smash still stands atop the mountain

-The natural aggressiveness inherent to boys from Baal

[Shaezus]

Hey Mort. I managed to get a few games in before Nurgle's rot took hold. The invictor suit with incendium cannon has been a savage pleasure to behold. If I get first turn it just causes mayhem and distraction and will do so even more now there's no seize roll in ITC! If I go second it can hang in LoS cover and help to keep the objectives clear. It really punches above its points value.

 

Eliminators are superb at what they do. They fill a gap that was there before and they do it perfectly.

 

Using the rhino has been a nice surprise. With other armour on the board and the invictor in his lines it isn't a priority, so come turn two it can deliver the scouts for a nice supporting charge and it is handy for soaking overwatch, or giving the scouts LoS cover to avoid overwatch. Otherwise handy for mid to late game objective grabbing.

 

I played a "casual" game against a very strong 3000 point list. I tried a few new things and played like a plonker, forgetting to use said new things when I needed to. Close 22-21 defeat there. A win against a casual DG list then a win against David's repulsor spam list. Again casual non ITC but tough list.

 

The only options I see for change are dropping the invictor, the rhino and smash cap. Maybe bringing in scout bikes to make a brigade. For 69 points with two storm bolters the rhino trumps a unit of bikes though, at least in my armoured support list it does. The invictor same again, it has a place and does things only it can do. Captain smash, well he just has so much utility and psychological effect alone, I can't see myself dropping him. Scout bikes just seem like easy kill points.

[Morticon]

My first playtests with the Invictor were great, but I found that he was a little lack-luster if you're going second. 

[ThatOneMarshal]

It’s a bit of long shot and I don’t have my book with me to check but if the invocitor has the Phobos keyword we could just redeploy to a safe spot on turn 1.

[Panzer]

It’s a bit of long shot and I don’t have my book with me to check but if the invocitor has the Phobos keyword we could just redeploy to a safe spot on turn 1.

 

If you mean the Invictor, then no it doesn't have the Phobos keyword.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Panzer

[Karhedron]

My first playtests with the Invictor were great, but I found that he was a little lack-luster if you're going second.

If going second, I guess he needs to be deployed a lot more conservatively. He will attract a lot of firepower and without THP or Duty Eternal, I suspect he will not survive. OTOH he could be used as a distraction carnifex. Delpoy him in cover to help him stay alive a bit longer and your opponent will have to dedicate a lot of firepower to dealing with him.

[Xenith]

Take 2!

[Karhedron]

Take 2!

And lie down!

[Brother Cruoris]

I had a game not to long ago.

Had an invictor and he did his part in clearing chaff and putting some wounds on a rhino. Then he got shot of the board in the next turn.

Death company is still solid in clearing chaff too. Opened up my opponents lines for my turn T2 assault. Had a 10 man squad of Sang guard charging in along with Capt smash and sos sang ancient. All this was supported by Astaroth. He is brutal with the 6 inch pile in.

MVP in this game was my sang guard. They tanked so much shooting and still managed to be effective thanks to all my buffing chars.

[Khorneeq]

Lately I'm trying Elite-MSU list

I know this sounds hard to imagine, but list is filled with smal hard hitting units: DC, Sanguard and Termies

This enables me to put units where they are needed, spread them or combine their punch. This also limits effects if I fail charge which was critical with big killy unit.

Cpt Slam, ancient with SoS also came handy :)

[Karhedron]

Lately I'm trying Elite-MSU list

Has some benefits for sure but makes psychic and stratagem buffs less effective as few models benefit from them. I guess it makes the aura buffs more important.

[Klazien]

Invictors and Intercessors. Been running 2 Invictors and they always take the bite put my opponents first turn shooting, 13w on a 3+ take a suprising amount of firepower to bring down. Use as move blocking/denial units. If you go first they can normally really help with first strike and disruption. Intercessors just in cover doing there thing, holding objective and supporting. Caption Smash is still king. Mephiston is a bit harder to play but if he makes it into late game he is boss. I've been running bikes a lot, more 2w 3+ models. Cheap, fast and from turn 2 onwards can pull a little weight with doctrines.

 

Also playing ITC a lot I run a brigade. Gives enough CP, 3 characters only, 2 vehicle, and SG/term stay off the table. Shelved the DC. To soft and between overwatch/ intercept stratagems just weren't pull thier weight before being blown off the table when ever a light breeze came there way.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Klazien

[The Unseen]

I went 3-0 at a semi-major ITC tournament recently, so I'd say my list has been doing ok. Working on refining it down still, but I never stop doing that.

I stepped back from the entirely aggressive turn 1 knock-out punch, because i found that going 2nd against a competent opponent would neuter me bad enough that the rest of the game was an uphill battle, as I didn't feel starting 50% of my games from a disadvantaged position and winning/losing the other 50% off deployment was what I wanted.

So for me, the key takeaways were

 

Autobolter intercessors with a power fist sergeant, buffed with a standard of sacrifice ancient. These guys are fantastic. Turn 1, 15 of them advance forward into the midfield which always has an objective marker or two close to it, into cover if its there, but not the end of the world if they have to march in the open. I ran a sanguinary ancient, but any of them will be fine. The intercessors are a huge midfield threat that opponents generally don't want to put the effort into removing that they take. Turn 2 with tactical doctrine each guy is spitting out 3 shots at -1AP, which is enough to make a dent in any infantry unit,  and can be surprisingly mobile with the ability to advance and still shoot albeit at -1 to hit.

 

These guys are also the primary screen I use to keep my characters alive, namely the ancient and Astorath. Astorath is a beast, since he can know the +2 to charges AND Mantra of Strength for that sick Str7 power axe, along with the usual reroll hits in the fight phase. Intercessors rerolling hits from Astorath and rerolling 1s to wound from a sanguinary ancient, even 5 of them pack a major punch, especially turn 3.

 

Forlorn Fury DC are still amazing. I run 8, 3 fists and 5 chainswords, all with handflamers. Handflamers are sick now, 8 of them just remove a guardsmen squad from existence. If you don't go first, put them in cover, or even in reserve. But when you get to go first, they can easily win you the game off the damage they can do round 1 and the disruption they cause.

 

SCOUTS

SCOUTS SCOUTS SCOUTS SCOUTS

Yes, they die easy if they can be seen, and yes sometimes it'll backfire and you'll lose kill more because of them. It doesn't matter, because scouts offer board control from the beginning of the first turn. A lot of the both the secondary objectives AND the bonus points for each mission in ITC rely on holding objectives, and scouts can start on the majority of them turn 1. If that isn't a concern, they put out a lot of pressure on your opponent to not leave his deployment zone, restricting his movement, especially if there's a few walls in the midfield they can hid behind.

 

And finally, the oddballs of my list, 2 Multi-Melta attack bikes. They get to run all over the board grabbing uncontested objectives, tag enemy units to reduce your opponents shooting, or snipe characters with 14" move and a meltagun. Best 49 pts you'll ever spend. I ran 2, and they never failed to do well.

[Bonzi]

Autobolter Intercessors with a thunder hammer. I've gotten solid milage out of them so far as a backbone unit. My army already has key buff units like the Standard of Sacrifice and the Sanguinor on the table and it can take an opponent by surprise when a unit they think of as a midfield objective camper jumps forward, catches some buffs and can put out damage like a smash captain.

 

Blood Angels secondary buff of +1 to advance and charge rolls has been huge for me. I've gotten a lot of charges completed because of that small bit of extra range and the +1 attack turn 3 or 4 has been brutal. BA Reavers in assault doctine are terrifying to anything that relies on invuln saves for protection. That all becomes even more apparent when they catch a melee buff (which as I've said above, are already present in my army). Reavers are also cheap enough to hold a MSU squad in ds reserve until turn 2 or 3.

[Are Verlo]

I went 3-0 at a semi-major ITC tournament recently, so I'd say my list has been doing ok. Working on refining it down still, but I never stop doing that.

I stepped back from the entirely aggressive turn 1 knock-out punch, because i found that going 2nd against a competent opponent would neuter me bad enough that the rest of the game was an uphill battle, as I didn't feel starting 50% of my games from a disadvantaged position and winning/losing the other 50% off deployment was what I wanted.

So for me, the key takeaways were

 

Autobolter intercessors with a power fist sergeant, buffed with a standard of sacrifice ancient. These guys are fantastic. Turn 1, 15 of them advance forward into the midfield which always has an objective marker or two close to it, into cover if its there, but not the end of the world if they have to march in the open. I ran a sanguinary ancient, but any of them will be fine. The intercessors are a huge midfield threat that opponents generally don't want to put the effort into removing that they take. Turn 2 with tactical doctrine each guy is spitting out 3 shots at -1AP, which is enough to make a dent in any infantry unit,  and can be surprisingly mobile with the ability to advance and still shoot albeit at -1 to hit.

 

These guys are also the primary screen I use to keep my characters alive, namely the ancient and Astorath. Astorath is a beast, since he can know the +2 to charges AND Mantra of Strength for that sick Str7 power axe, along with the usual reroll hits in the fight phase. Intercessors rerolling hits from Astorath and rerolling 1s to wound from a sanguinary ancient, even 5 of them pack a major punch, especially turn 3.

 

Forlorn Fury DC are still amazing. I run 8, 3 fists and 5 chainswords, all with handflamers. Handflamers are sick now, 8 of them just remove a guardsmen squad from existence. If you don't go first, put them in cover, or even in reserve. But when you get to go first, they can easily win you the game off the damage they can do round 1 and the disruption they cause.

 

SCOUTS

SCOUTS SCOUTS SCOUTS SCOUTS

Yes, they die easy if they can be seen, and yes sometimes it'll backfire and you'll lose kill more because of them. It doesn't matter, because scouts offer board control from the beginning of the first turn. A lot of the both the secondary objectives AND the bonus points for each mission in ITC rely on holding objectives, and scouts can start on the majority of them turn 1. If that isn't a concern, they put out a lot of pressure on your opponent to not leave his deployment zone, restricting his movement, especially if there's a few walls in the midfield they can hid behind.

 

And finally, the oddballs of my list, 2 Multi-Melta attack bikes. They get to run all over the board grabbing uncontested objectives, tag enemy units to reduce your opponents shooting, or snipe characters with 14" move and a meltagun. Best 49 pts you'll ever spend. I ran 2, and they never failed to do well.

 

 

My reply is not about playing as BA but against BA. I´ve had sucess vs "reserves heavy" BA when i play Alpha Legion + Thousand sons. If the BA player is too dependent on Wings of Fire and reserves, the AL offers both ambush and scrabeled coordinates. The AL list i play has 20 noise marines and 20 rubric. Both these units cover a lot of ground and can put out a lot of hurt with the ambush stratagem. And the 1KS supreme command "cult of magic" offers premium MW output and a sneaky way of getting out of being "tri-locked": astral blast.

 

BUT your army with a pressure on the board from turn 1 and not being 100% reliant on WoF and DoA would give my list a good run. I like the list you describe. None of the AL stratagems offer any relief from Forlorn fury and bikes/jumpers that start on the board :-D

[Shaezus]

With the Blood of Baal updates BA went from being strong alpha strike to strong late game. Forlorn Fury - even with smash cap alone - can be a game changer against lists with weak screens but it's more of an optional bonus to us now than the main trick it used to be. We are so much better at board control now, playing cagey and guerilla and waiting for that turn 3 onwards when we become our strongest. A lot depends on the terrain but even primaris infiltrators have a potential place with BA now. Astoraths 6" consolidate is huge for getting wraps or positioning for fight again.

[Matarno - Lord of Skyfall]

 

Lately I'm trying Elite-MSU list

Has some benefits for sure but makes psychic and stratagem buffs less effective as few models benefit from them. I guess it makes the aura buffs more important.

 

 

 

Lately I'm trying Elite-MSU list

I know this sounds hard to imagine, but list is filled with smal hard hitting units: DC, Sanguard and Termies

This enables me to put units where they are needed, spread them or combine their punch. This also limits effects if I fail charge which was critical with big killy unit.

Cpt Slam, ancient with SoS also came handy

 

I have also been running an Elite MSU list, and it is awesome. In a 2K Dual Battalion, I have a big blob of DC, a full squad of VV with SS/PS, full squad of SG (all with swords) and a 5 man TH/SS terminator squad.

 

Thing hits like an absolute hammer. As Karhedron said, the buffs become incredibly important. Canticle of Hate is the lynchpin to my entire strategy, as is keeping that Chaplain out of combat and alive until Turn 3. He also rocks Icon of the Angel, which just crazy boosts his ability to get others into CC.

[DistractionTacMarine]

Autobolter Intercessors with a thunder hammer. I've gotten solid milage out of them so far as a backbone unit. My army already has key buff units like the Standard of Sacrifice and the Sanguinor on the table and it can take an opponent by surprise when a unit they think of as a midfield objective camper jumps forward, catches some buffs and can put out damage like a smash captain.

 

Blood Angels secondary buff of +1 to advance and charge rolls has been huge for me. I've gotten a lot of charges completed because of that small bit of extra range and the +1 attack turn 3 or 4 has been brutal. BA Reavers in assault doctine are terrifying to anything that relies on invuln saves for protection. That all becomes even more apparent when they catch a melee buff (which as I've said above, are already present in my army). Reavers are also cheap enough to hold a MSU squad in ds reserve until turn 2 or 3.

I’m not seeing any rules for Reivers against invul saves - why are they better there?

[DistractionTacMarine]

I have been running a dual battalion with no DC but with two 6-man squads of SG, one with three fists and three swords, one with two fists, two axes, and two swords. Gives me good clearing power against pretty much everything, including tanks - you’re wounding everything up to T7 on a 2+, and if you include your warlord with them (I usually make Sanguinor or Sang Ancient my warlord and rush them all in together), they can reroll all missed hits. They are REALLY powerful.

 

In addition I run a blob of intercessors to hold a firebase with a quad-las Contemptor, mephiston, a LT, another Captain armed with dual LC and jetpack to countercharge any infantry that get close. I’m working on freeing up room in my list for a storm cannon Leviathan as well.

[Panzer]

 

Autobolter Intercessors with a thunder hammer. I've gotten solid milage out of them so far as a backbone unit. My army already has key buff units like the Standard of Sacrifice and the Sanguinor on the table and it can take an opponent by surprise when a unit they think of as a midfield objective camper jumps forward, catches some buffs and can put out damage like a smash captain.

Blood Angels secondary buff of +1 to advance and charge rolls has been huge for me. I've gotten a lot of charges completed because of that small bit of extra range and the +1 attack turn 3 or 4 has been brutal. BA Reavers in assault doctine are terrifying to anything that relies on invuln saves for protection. That all becomes even more apparent when they catch a melee buff (which as I've said above, are already present in my army). Reavers are also cheap enough to hold a MSU squad in ds reserve until turn 2 or 3.

I’m not seeing any rules for Reivers against invul saves - why are they better there?

Because they don't rely on armour penetration and have an additional attack. Though honestly you might as well take Intercessors or even Veteran Intercessors then. The damage output is not that different if at all. The thing Reivers offer is "cheap" deep striking wounds and that's it.

[Kram000]

Chaplain Smash has been incredibly efficient and effective (in addition to many other things).  Nobody has mentioned him yet.  I load him with no over watch jump pack, power fist, mantra of strength, and give him artisan of war warlord trait.  Start on the board to activate litany.  If going first, FF and kill something juicy.  If going second, wait for enemy to come closer or redeploy with 3D6 charge.

 

Having the Str 10 Power fist makes a huge difference in wounding T8.  I really don't mind missing the re-rolls (hitting on 2's if target has been quake bolted) in exchange for having 2+D3 damage and wounding on 2+.  Lots of T8 in my game circle.

 

This guy has caused massive casualties to knights, tanks, Necron fliers, big Ork robots, basically everything I've sent him at.

 

Only 99 points, but CP heavy.

[DistractionTacMarine]

Chaplain Smash has been incredibly efficient and effective (in addition to many other things). Nobody has mentioned him yet. I load him with no over watch jump pack, power fist, mantra of strength, and give him artisan of war warlord trait. Start on the board to activate litany. If going first, FF and kill something juicy. If going second, wait for enemy to come closer or redeploy with 3D6 charge.

 

Having the Str 10 Power fist makes a huge difference in wounding T8. I really don't mind missing the re-rolls (hitting on 2's if target has been quake bolted) in exchange for having 2+D3 damage and wounding on 2+. Lots of T8 in my game circle.

 

This guy has caused massive casualties to knights, tanks, Necron fliers, big Ork robots, basically everything I've sent him at.

 

Only 99 points, but CP heavy.

Do you have a hard time keeping him alive? Slam dies almost every game even when he has Gift of Foresight and a storm shield

[Bonzi]

 

Autobolter Intercessors with a thunder hammer. I've gotten solid milage out of them so far as a backbone unit. My army already has key buff units like the Standard of Sacrifice and the Sanguinor on the table and it can take an opponent by surprise when a unit they think of as a midfield objective camper jumps forward, catches some buffs and can put out damage like a smash captain.

 

Blood Angels secondary buff of +1 to advance and charge rolls has been huge for me. I've gotten a lot of charges completed because of that small bit of extra range and the +1 attack turn 3 or 4 has been brutal. BA Reavers in assault doctine are terrifying to anything that relies on invuln saves for protection. That all becomes even more apparent when they catch a melee buff (which as I've said above, are already present in my army). Reavers are also cheap enough to hold a MSU squad in ds reserve until turn 2 or 3.

I’m not seeing any rules for Reivers against invul saves - why are they better there?

Two reasons. #1 is volume of attacks and your AP is rarely wasted. Reivers don't care about a 3+ invuln because they throw buckets of attacks. The +1 basic attack from their knife also means they still have a decent number of attacks even if it's the second round of a combat and your not getting charge bonuses. #2 is the shock grenade. Negating overwatch is big, but throwing a -1 to hit on a unit with expensive melee weapons us huge. Especially things like thunderhammers. These make Reivers a great answer to elite melee units you wouldn't want to throw your DC or Sang Guard into.

 

They are not an exceptional unit to spam and build around but having one small squad has always been cheap and useful.

Edited March 14, 2020 by Bonzi

[Kram000]

 

Do you have a hard time keeping him alive? Slam dies almost every game even when he has Gift of Foresight and a storm shield

 

 

Always.  In fact, my captain doesn't even take a storm shield, it's a storm bolter to plink off a few squishies while he's enroute to murder something.  Part of the tactic is to send chaplain into CC against multiple targets, hoping he will die in retaliation.  Then he fights again to finish everything.  One game he went into a blob of primaris with the dark angel dudes in close proximity.  First fight was against the hellblasters and the librarian and the second fight was against the head honcho.