A question on Kunnin' But Brutal...

[Kaldoth]

So, I had a question on how Kunnin' But Brutal interacts with units that can deploy via a deep strike mechanic.

 

Let's say first turn goes to whoever sets up first in the mission being played. I take units that could deploy via deep strike and place them on the field. Deployment finishes, and my opponent attempts to seize initiative and does so. Could I then use Kunnin' But Brutal to redeploy those units into deep strike?

 

Further, if that is legal, how does this interact with reinforcement points? The Tactical Reserves rule says "When setting up your army during Deployment for a matched play game..." As KBB happens during the first battle round and not during deployment, the units that you redeploy into deep strike did technically start on the board. Could you not then put more than half of your points into deep strike?

 

And a final query, how would this interact if your warlord were in a transport that could deep strike like a Chinork? The stratagem says it takes your warlord + D3 units. If he's embarked in the transport does it go along with him, or would that transport have to be rolled for with the D3? It says units embarked inside the transport during deployment stay inside the transport, so I'm leaning towards something like a Chinork not needing to be rolled for if your boss is inside. The stratagem says redeploy your warlord and D3 units, which to me says the warlord redeploys no matter what.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Kaldoth

[Warhead01]

I was trying to work out an answer but anything I come up with is iffy. So To your second part, I feel like the warlord  is chosen and any transport would be a second unit chosen unlike if your second unit was a transport with other embarked units on it, where that still only counts as 1 unit.  This seems right because the ability specifies the warlord + D3 units. 

To the first question I would say you probably could move the warlord and chosen units to deepstrike, via stratagem or ability, as long as those units wouldn't put you over the limit of allowed units, usually only half thee number of units in your army can have "special deployments".  
Hope that helps. 

[Kaldoth]

I was trying to work out an answer but anything I come up with is iffy. So To your second part, I feel like the warlord is chosen and any transport would be a second unit chosen unlike if your second unit was a transport with other embarked units on it, where that still only counts as 1 unit. This seems right because the ability specifies the warlord + D3 units.

 

Well, I did a little hunting on the first part. You can indeed take units that start on the board that have a native deep strike mechanic and redeploy them into deep strike if you want. You can't use Tellyporta or other stratagems in conjunction with KBB because those stratagems have to be used during deployment, and KBB happens after deployment is already over. Native deep strike is fine because the stratagem states the units may be deployed as described in the mission you are playing. So as long as tactical reserves are allowed in the mission, then redeploying into deep strike is fine.

 

As for the rest of it, yeah it's confusing. I'm gonna paste the WLT and bold a few bits of it for emphasis:

 

At the start of the first battle round, before the first turn begins, you can remove your Warlord and up to 1d3 friendly units from the battlefield and set them up again as described in the deployment section of the mission you are playing. If you pick a transport, the units embarked on it are also redeployed.

 

So, the issue I'm finding is that there are two camps of thought on this. The biggest thing here is the "from the battlefield part" in relation to "your warlord" and "up to d3 units."

 

As we all know, units that start the game in transports aren't considered to be on the battlefield. That got FAQd a while back to prevent people from leaving characters with aura abilities in transports and making mobile buff castles.

 

So, camp one seems to think this stratagem redeploys your warlord regardless of whether or not he is on the battlefield. "You can redeploy your warlord" is taken as it's own functional part of the warlord trait, and then "and up to 1d3 friendly units from the battlefield" as another part of it. Worded differently as an example, "You can redeploy your warlord. Also you can redeploy up to 1d3 friendly units from the battlefield."

 

Camp two seems to think the "from the battlefield" applies to both the warlord and the d3 units. However, that doesn't make sense to me. If your warlord starts the game in a transport, he isn't "on the battlefield," which would mean he can't benefit from his own warlord trait even though it specifically says you can redeploy him in KBB.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Kaldoth

[toaae]

1. Can I put units into Tactical Reserve that were deployed on the tabletop by using Kunnin', but Brutal?

 

Not certain. This gets ruled in different ways; for example, you can do it with the Emperor's Children stratagem Tactical Perfection but not with the Ultramarines stratagem Rapid Redeployment. As is, I'd play that you can do it, but it could go either way.

 

 

2. If I can, how does this effect the Tactical Reserves Matched Play rule?

 

Per the GSC FAQ, "The Tactical Reserves limits concerning this [# of units in reserve] apply specifically to deployment, whilst this Stratagem is used once the battle has started." So, they do not count towards the limit.

 

 

3. How about duders in transports?

 

Per the Kunnin', but Brutal rule, the occupants are redeployed along with their ride, and have to remain inside.