Incursors vs Infiltrators

[Mitsarugi]

I can't really see any benefits to taking Incursors over Infiltrators. Am I missing something?

Edited April 11, 2020 by Mitsarugi

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

Incursors cost less points, come with mines, and ignore shooting debuffs.

[Dumah]

Incursors cost less points, come with mines, and ignore shooting debuffs.

 

They also come with paired combat blades, which make them budget CC units.

[Panzer]

It really is kinda the opposite way. There's little reason to take Infiltrators over Incursors if you don't need to push back reserves. 

[GrinNfool]

Honestly they are pretty similar, people make a big deal over the cost, but assuming you are taking the mine the difference is 5 points cheaper for the incursors.  Each have positives over the other that depending your needs 5 points isn't going to dissuade you from use, or disuse, its going to come down to why you need them in the first place.

 

Incursors Pros -

Better in melee due to blades (slightly)

Get ignores cover on guns, and their ranged hit rolls will always hit on 3.

Haywire mine

 

Infiltrator pros -

12" anti DS bubble useful for plasma, melta, stopping charges etc

Guns auto wound on a 6 to hit, this includes vs vehicles or other high toughness units, giving a slight advantage here.

If you are willing to pay an additional 10 points and are running phobos LT and cpt, they can reroll 1s to hit/wound no matter where on the table they are.

 

In general Incursors are the safer bet if you are just looking for forward deploying marines, but depending your local meta infiltrators can be very useful.  My personal feelings are Incursors are better for forward deploying, infiltrators are better for rear guard.

Edited March 19, 2020 by GrinNfool

[Dracos]

So which do we think is best in the midfield?

 

If you aren’t using them outside your deployment zone you should be using Intercessors instead. So as midfield objective holders which has better chance to survive to T3?

 

Infiltrators stop drop pod assaults T1 and beta strikes T2. That’s a big plus imo in a competitive scene.

 

The shooting and melee differences between the two is a wash imo. It’s their special abilities and cost that are the tipping factor.

 

 

Ignoring cover and the mines are tasty at a cheaper price but I’m not sure it really makes them more survivable. I wish I had proxied the incursors and mines in our league before everything shutdown. I’m very curious to see if D3 potential mortal wounds is enough to stop anyone from going for an objective. 2W average? Probably wouldn’t stop me so I assume the same of others. (potentially 4W average with a Raven Guard strat though ?)

 

It’s situational but the 12” push is game. Changer when it activates. I’m going Infiltrators I think (looking at the primed spruces right now - sigh) tough decision.

Edited March 19, 2020 by Dracos

[QuarterPounder]

Definitely a tough choice, which is (IMHO) a sign of well-balanced units! If you're targeting survivability, Infiltrators in cover with a Helix Adept are pretty tough to shift. If you can hide them somewhere out of line of sight on an objective and keep deep strike 12" away.... solid gold, in my opinion.

 

Edit: Oh, and smoke grenades....

Edited March 19, 2020 by QuarterPounder

[Karhedron]

Incursors seem more aggressive while Infiltrators seem more defensive. They are both good in the midfield but in slightly different roles.

 

For screening or objective grabbing, Infiltrators probably have the edge. The 12" bubble of deep strike denial will help stop the enemy jumping them or the guys behind.

 

If you are planning to use them to put early pressure on you opponent then Incursors are slightly cheaper and put out a bit more damage. Partner them with an Invictor (or Forlorn Furying Death Company if you play BA) for some excellent T1 chaff clearance.

[eternal_warrior12]

I hope I’m not late to this party. I run a pure vanguard marine force for my Blood Ravens. 2 units of infiltrators and one incursors unit.

 

My opinion is... they both rock. A LOT! For different reasons. The infiltrators (with comms) being able to move where they want and keep captain and lieutenant buffs in super valuable. Killing big and little is a breeze. Once the tactical doctrine kicks in its game on. Mowing down hordes of gaunts and Boyz no problem. Even shot a demon prince to death (having to pay a stray to shoot after leaving combat) 6 to auto wound is crazy good for the amount of fire a full unit, much less two, could put out.

 

Incursors.... not as good at first glance but a squad jumping on the Swarmlord and almost prison shanking him to death is hilarious. They can put out crazy CC attacks. They only lose points for really needing assault doctrine to shine and their stupid visor heads but you can easily trade them out.

Edited March 27, 2020 by eternal_warrior12

[Dracos]

In the context of my army I'm going to be running two squads in a double battalion list. I've been on the fence back and forth until my chaps are chapped :) I had made up my mind already and EW12 mention of the assault doctrine just cements it for me, Incursors ... but ...

 

 

 ... I'm raiding a box of Reivers I bought ages ago and don't plan on using to replace all but the sgts head. I'm using the Infiltrators antenna because the backpack scanner, just looks horrid. Using the Occulus bolt carbine so its really Phobos Frankenstein looking bit it has the best of each of those models and still say Incursor ... I hope.

 

I had been holding onto the Reivers hoping they would be more important with the forced doctrine shifts, but most of my games are decided by T4 at the latest. Thats a long time to wait to be relevant in the gameplan.

[Jacques Corbin]

I go back and forth on this one all the time. The auto wound on a 6 to hit is great, but outside of Tactical Doctrine, enemy units get their full save. But then it is the same thing with ignoring to hit penalties. Hitting on a 3+ after using Auspex scan is awesome, but it is just basic bolter fire.

 

Honestly, I would have liked to have seen some sort of homing device to allow deep strikes within 3" regardless of distance to enemy units. Or the ability to call in indirect fire, or close air support.

 

But then, you cannot expect in game units to behave like real world forward units. There is no fog of war in game like there is in real life. In real life, you only guess where enemy forward operatives are, unless you get eyes on. In game, you know where all the enemy units are, which is a huge advantage.

 

In my mind, a double battalion consists of a forward and a rear battalion. The forward battalion deploys in the midfield, with units ready to drop in, while the rear battalion brings the fire support and has units to move forward to support the midfield.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Incursors are better for meleecentric armies like Blood Angels, Space Wolves and White Scars. Infiltrators are better for the rest.

[Dracos]

I think that is a bit simplified. The special rules on both of these are very situational. The best I can see, is one is good at denying a alpha/beta strike, the other plinking at units in cover and is cheaper. Neither one are game changers. Isolated I would pick Infiltrators as the better of the two, but . . . 

 

I plan on linking a Phobos Captain with each of my Incursor units. The Incursors job is to be cheap and keep the Captain alive long enough that T2 each forward unit is "relieved" by a team of Aggressors and a Bolt Rifle/Thunder Hammer squad. Each of those "task force" being supplied fire support by an Eliminator and Stalker squad sitting on backfield cover/objectives. That's my basic plan for controlling middle of the board if I feel I need it's to my advantage to jump on it at the get go. 

 

In other words part of a game plan that requires multiple units work together. As much as I like certain models, one-trick pony armies are always going to come up against its anti-thesis. Better to go TAC and actually narratively more accurate ... or at least "realistic".

[Closet Skeleton]

Infiltrators almost cost as much as Aggressors, If you want to spam Primaris infiltrate you need to throw some Incursors into the mix.

 

I go back and forth on this one all the time. The auto wound on a 6 to hit is great, but outside of Tactical Doctrine, enemy units get their full save.
 

You're going to be in tactical doctrine for some critical turns so that's not a problem.

[Xenith]

I’m very curious to see if D3 potential mortal wounds is enough to stop anyone from going for an objective. 

 

I find that in a surprising amount of games, points are scored by the last survivor of a unit claiming an out of the way objective, or a character going after one in the last turn. Dropping 2MW on a farseer is great. Even a 5man MSU unit you have the potential to kill 60% of his unit in your opponents movement phase (+/- command reroll), which should give them pause for thought.

[Panzer]

Yeah it won't stop a full unit to get on an objective but it will reduce their ability to keep operating, be it holding said objective for longer or fighting units to capture the next objective. Already severely damaged units though? They will think twice about trying to get on that objective on their own.

[Volt]

Play urban assault. You'll learn to love Incursors then.

[Hymnblade]

It's a pretty niche use, but my Incursors were amazing in the "Ambush!" mission from the core rulebook (as the attacker). If you're not familiar with it, the deployment looks like this. The defender's goal is to get enough units off the attacker's short board edge, and the game uses the "Dawn Raid" rule (-1 to hit with shooting attacks in the first turn), with a stratagem for the attacker to extend this for additional turns.

 

 

I used three squads of Incursors, deployed in a vertical line at the middle of the board to screen and block movement. With forward deployment, they almost completely denied movement towards the escape route. Smoke grenades meant that line was hard to displace, especially with Dawn Raid. Their multi-spectrum arrays meant they can shoot just fine despite Dawn Raid. Haywire Mines can make the most direct path (in this case, a road across the middle) much less attractive. And when something threatens to punch through the line, they can mob it in CC, tying it up and with a fair shot at killing it.

 

Most missions wouldn't get so much use out of all those features at once, but yeah, Incursors have a lot of utility.

[Happy-inquisitor]

I have built mine as Incursors and have never regretted that for a moment - they have been my biggest VP scorers in every game I have played with them.

 

The thinking behind this was that their role is to get onto mid-table objectives and then pose my opponent the challenge of removing them. The infiltrators 12" bubble is far less useful in this role because most opponents will just run across the table to get at something in the midfield. Infiltrators are awesome at screening a backfield but that is not the primary reason I wanted these units so the premium points cost did not look good value to me.

 

I thought the mines were just a gimmick but I had the points spare for the one tournament I took them to before lockdown and the mines were actually really good. My toughest matchup in that tournament was Grey Knights and they absolutely hate those mines - they want to use Strikes to clear me off objectives but MSU Strike squads really do not want to be taking D3 mortal wounds. 

 

So despite my initial misgivings I now think the mines are a better assault defence for the Incursors than the 12" bubble of the Infiltrators for the role I use them in. Yes the mines are terrible vs hordes but bolters are good vs hordes and i play Crimson Fists so I have that covered pretty well. My tools against elite units coming to take the objective away are not so baked in to my Chapter - the mines are just such a tool. 

[Dracos]

Good points on the mines, and they are doubly effective with some Chapter Stratagems.

 

A thought ... We should wait until an appropriate "target" presents itself to drop the mines.  It's a gamble but the better tactical choice.

[Volt]

Typically a table will only have 3-4 avenues of assault for vehicles unless your terrain comp is godawful, so placing the mines is more useful as the goal is to forcibly funnel the enemy into a killzone. Taking d3 mortal wounds off of something doesn't do much, but it does a lot when it incentivizes your opponent to go where you want if they don't want to pay a wound tax.

[Dracos]

As a Raven Guard player, I'm leaving that option open if I can find 20 pts to spare in the army, (need to model up the mines now that I think about it) but doing so only because I have just enough CP left in my builds to double up with A Deadly Prize.

[Lemondish]

I like Incursors, but as an Imperial Fists player I have a natural aversion to duplicate special rules. Ignoring cover for a force that already ignores cover makes me feel bad.

 

But back when we had the ability for Infiltrator exploding sixes on shots count as auto wounds, I went all in with Infiltrators. I definitely do not regret it.